9/11 Red Herring Free-For-All!

Originally posted by Spawwwn
Yes ignorance and you are proving why i say there is a lot wrong with 9-11 truthers, because all you've done is distort my words.

Prove it! I use your words to prove my point, but you seem to be incapable. I should just end it at that.

You can't cite invisible wars as evidence 9-11 as a conspirocy.

I never cited them to prove a 911 conspiracy. I cite them to destroy the omnipotent argument that a 911 conspiracy is impossible.
But really, the "invisible wars" is actually the first proof they lied about 911:
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Why is it so hard to comprehend that the USA does not control the world.
You think the USA is powerful because you are an example of the classic self absorbed american.

Because I study the US government, its imperialist history, it's global influence, it's military, it's current and rapidly approaching technologies and so on.

They think they, and their nation..are the center of the universe. America is a small part of a global population. The most people in the world actually live in china. So globally the USA has a very small impact on what goes on in large areas of the world.

Granted, we are but a tiny slice of the gobal population. The number of people has nothing to do with things like influence and power.

You belive that your government has the power to control the very fabric of the earth..and determine what will happen from each day to the next. You are basically saying that the USA government are gods. This is false, the government is not omnipotent.

Correction: I know that the US Elite Establishment more or less fits the bill you just stated. This is this is quite distinct from "the government". Omnipotent? Soon...
www.abovetopsecret.com...

With loose change, you again distort pieces of what i say.

Not at all, because majority of your arguments rest on the logic that loose change issues had to be true for there to be a conspiracy. Your commentary is dripping with this logic and viewpoint.


From your statements, you're clearly too narrow in view to understand that all 'the government' had to do was allow 9/11 to happen for it to be a treasonous conspiracy..

with the cold war and everything..nobody is "covering anything up".

In some cases true, but most of it was never properly covered, and I'm talking about what's actually known. For the rest most everyone goes on pretending it never happened just like everyone pretends we're not the histories all-time imperialist "Evil Empire" state.

The media just reports stories that are the most sensational, and relevent to the most number of people.

That's funny, because I've already seen news coverage of Brittney Spears that refered to her as a "sensation". The pander entertainment to divert everyone from seeing the glaring truth about this nation. Propaganda is the science of persuasion and diversion.

Media and government are largley not related.

They're controlled by the same interests.

So it's reasonable that 100 people may occupy an office. What i'm saying is that there are thousands of people who work in the media in general..you would have to pay a large majority of them off..for the media to help you cover up a self terrorist attack.

In theory, that may be plausible... unless you don't know very much about political and nationalist social bias complexes (see 1st post^^). Virtually everyone, who is politically biased, is already controlled mentally and self-decieve themselves to maintain their ideal realities. On top of that, virtually everyone has an even deeper routed Nationalism Bias. "Conservatives" have a deeper merge between these 2 bias complexes. Pseudoskeptics (Skeptics) often have a similar merged bias and so on. You don't have to pay off sheeple loyalists who self-decieve themselves neurlogically.

Again..you twist my words to fit your agenda (a classic 9-11 liar tactic).

Explain, don't just throw that around. I applied your statements to locial fallacies. Show em where I'm wrong (I've showed you where you were wrong).

Trillions of dollars it would take because look at everything that needs to be bought and prepared.

Look at what? I asked you for the math, not more assumptions.

An operation like 9-11 would be massive, you try and explain how you are going to pull 9-11 of for a few million dollars.

It seems the burden of proof would be on you as this is your assertion to prove your case.
There's a HUGE difference between a few million and trillions.
Whatever the price, who's to say the establishment doesn't have the funds?
Power is bigger than money.
It wouldn't cost very much to allow 911 to happen to gain total control.

lol have i ever made a video i make videos and work in media for a living.

Sounds very convincing...

I know full and well the mentality of people like alex jones.

O? You didn't seem to know much about the irrational bias complexes I've been pointing out here.

He picks a controversial topic, with a lot of room for phony debate..and pumps it up anf fills it full of tantilizing bits of disinfo..and then poof, he makes money off it! it's not a hard concept to understand. He's a storyteller. everything he says is fiction. it's that simple.

So is that disinfo or MISINFO? Do you know the difference?
EVERYTHING he says is fiction? You sound alot more irrational than he is, and I'm actually a critic of his irrational biases!

my problem is that for me to belive your 9-11 lie,

"MY" "911 lie"? So it's mine? I own it?
Lie? Who's to say the 'official version' wasn't a lie?
What have I LIED about? I can back up whatever I say (That's hardly the case for anything the establishment says) with sources, and you can use those sources or others to 'debunk' what i say. You haven't linked in a single source if I'm not mistaken.
Even if I did LIE, or even if I'm wrong with my overall thesis, or Alex Jones is with his, or Loose change are with theirs, etc, etc, etc, how does that mean the 'official story' isn't a LIE? It's hardly even logically possible for 'us theorists' 'version' to be the LIE, as we're not the originating source of the "facts" and the "narrative", nor are we the ones who could possibly be at fault or guilt. I will allign myself with the "truthers" social group on the basis of ASKING QUESTIONS and DEMANDING AN FULL INVESTIGATION ASAP, because you guys (and you are an irrational ideological social group) clearly have no interest in getting such, but I'm not a "binary logic" (0/1, male/female, yes/no, left/right, loose-change/no-conspiracy, etc) mental subject like what I'm seeing coming from you view.

i would also have to belive that the world can be run by a hand ful of men in business suits. sorry but life is more complex then that.

And again you display binary logic. For you, it's either a "few million" or "trillions"; "Thousands of people" or "a handful of men"; ad infinitum. Supporting evidence:

Now multiply those thousands of people at 1 station, and then increase that number by over half a million..because that's how many people work in the professional media.

Ad Infinitum


[edit on 28-4-2007 by IgnoranceIsntBlisss]

spawwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwn;

Just because you assume some arbitrary number of people that had to know everything about 9/11, and just because you assume that that arbitrary number of people couldn't be quiet (while their lives and livelihoods are on the line) doesnt make it so.

It doesnt disprove the conspiracy angle.

When you look at the lack of air defense response, the war games, the ignored forewarnings, the insider trading, the historical building collapses, the pre-prepared patriot act, the definate inside job anthrax attacks, etc etc etc... eventually you reach a breaking point.

According to occam's razor, the simplest explanation that fits ALL THE FACTS....

The simplest explanation is that UNCLE SCAM DID IT!!!!

Originally posted by IgnoranceIsntBlisss

Originally posted by Spawwwn

lol have i ever made a video i make videos and work in media for a living.

Sounds very convincing...

See this is exactly why i'm not paying attention to your bull---- anymore. I've tried to be patient, but you've just proven to me why i can't take these 9-11 CT nuts seriously. All you've done is twist and distort my words, ignore the hard parts of my arguements..and picked at things you thought you could milk to prove a phony, weak "point".

So now you're an authority on what i do? Lol this is actually a classic 9-11 liar technique. You assume that professionals such as the NIST and the FDNY are incapable of doing their job..or somehow are not the final authority on their profession.

You also second guess people, lie about them, distort what they said, critize their actions, and ultimatley..only seek to prove yourself right, and others wrong. There is no truth movement. IT's a bunch of liars and scam artists who are looking to make a buck off some insane nonsense.

No, the USA goverment is NOT omnipotent. USA is NOT the greatest country in the world. The USA CAN be hit by terrorist attacks. 9-11 was NOT caused by the USA gov.

You proved why all the skeptics left..because you guys don't want to debate. You live in whatever fantasy world you mind created.. and there is nothing anyone can say to change your mind. No matter what logical arguement someone gives you..it won't work, becuase you'll pull up some more fabricated crazy articles (from the INTERNET mind you) and expect the rest of us sane people to belive your crap.

So fine, if you don't want to belive me that's on you..but i certainly see no reason to talk to somebody who thinks they know what goes on in my life and would question something i know for a fact i do.

Dude! I for one haven't made a penny, and I'm with thse guys. You can't disprove the conspiracy theory with your halfass arguments, so you try to debunk the Truthers again with over-the-top innuendo and insults.

There are liars and frauds, and deliberate DISINFO, sure some are out to make a buck, but no two truthers are the same, as are no two OCTers. We are all Human beings, some trying to sort things out, others not, clinging to their beliefs regardless of evidence.

Perhaps you really shouldn't be engaging the BS if you're not prepared to bend a bit and be patient and listen closer.

Originally posted by Spawwwn
So fine, if you don't want to belive me that's on you..

I don't see any reason to believe in faulty logic and irrational biases that can't even stand up to my arguments or provide sources on anything. I even linked you in to some other threads where you could have focused on those angles but you didn't touch them like Red Herring Artists never do: you blow up a thread with Ad Hominem Red Herrings, refuse to take the Red Herrings into focus threads, and then cut and run when you get smacked down... until another hot topic comes up for you to smear with this type of drivel.

Show me where I twisted your words in an untrue manner, otherwise you're arguments are hack as this is your main ongoing argument here now.


[edit on 30-4-2007 by IgnoranceIsntBlisss]

You see it's not about you even twisting my words at this point. A perfect example of when you did that was when you made me out to see like i don't belive in conspirocy theories as a whole. Looking back on it your original post did nothing but twist my words. Not belive in conspirocy theories? When did i say this? I said i'm a skeptic about 9-11. Nothing more in there to read.

My point is that i can't speak with children. If you absolutley can't put aside the belief that the USA government is all powerfull, then i have no conversation for you.

That is my original point. That the reason most "skeptics" left, was because we got tired of trying hold discussions with people we belived had a skewed perception of reality. There's no use trying to reason with people who can't deal with the fact that for us regular folks to belive the 9-11 conspirocy..we would have to buy into a fabricated world that we don't belive exists.

No i don't belive alex jones and other liars. i don't think microchips are going to be implanted in us after a nuclear attack. so for you to tell me that larry silverstien benfited of the slaughter of thousands of innocent peole..all to gain some money and make sure that the government would be able to enslave the world..is false to me.

i already explained that your simple attempt to disprove everything i say, resulted in me not beliveing or caring about you. The funny thing is that you would try and disprove something you know nothing about, or could even prove (in this case my own stories).

pretty low tactic for someone who claims to be about "truth". but like i said, people like you and alex jones are quite similar..in that you feel by throwing some smoke and mirrors.and elaborate hand tricks, you can fool people. the fact is that the man who is profiting selling DVD's off 9-11 is the real criminal. Alex jones should be tried for treason. Him and the people that sell loose change dvds should be the ones critized, because unlike your hollywood movie example..they are actually serious about the garbage they say.

again i say, 9-11 truth is a joke. a mere distraction from the real issues going on in life. have fun buying the lie and wasting your time trying to prove something that is not there, or that nobody cares about.

So do you actually have an argument to support your thesis that there's no possible way 911 wasn't a conspiracy?

I've been waiting all this time. Feel free to re-structure all of your best material in a fasion that doesn't fallaciously wobble thru the facts. Let's see how bulletproof you can possibly make this thing, your great powerhouse master thesis that we will all bow down to....

You've been Challenged!

[edit on 30-4-2007 by IgnoranceIsntBlisss]

Originally posted by Spawwwn
You see it's not about you even twisting my words at this point. A perfect example of when you did that was when you made me out to see like i don't belive in conspirocy theories as a whole. Looking back on it your original post did nothing but twist my words.

If it isn't then why are you going back into it?




I'm still waiting for you to give me an example...
You have been Challenged!

[edit on 30-4-2007 by IgnoranceIsntBlisss]

good example of ignorance

even faced with science and real world evidence, people still cling to their false hope. Look at the 2nd or 3d post..something like "Well this was staged so that the government could dispell 9-11". It's absolutley ridiculous.

I already explained this to you, i have nothing to say to someone who buys into that mentality so fiercely. My arguements have been made i left you 2 long posts on the first page that you should re read. I've already told you, i don't buy the idea that the usa governement is not all powerful. That is what you are basically saying when you say that 9-11 was committed by USA gov.

It's not a plausible theory, especially considering everything i've explained to you about how you can't accept that Muslims could hate americans so bad to want to kill them.

That notion is harder for you to accept, than the fact that the USA could burn your own people.

So you answered TWO official challenges with an all new unrelated Red Herring?

You just owned yourself.

Originally posted by Spawwwn

It's not a plausible theory, especially considering everything i've explained to you about how you can't accept that Muslims could hate americans so bad to want to kill them.

That notion is harder for you to accept, than the fact that the USA could burn your own people.

Man, I hate to be shrewd, but you really seem to be off the deep-end. Seriously though, why do they hate US so bad? Why were we attacked? I know you cant answer my challenges and try to correct your flawed logic in your former posts, but surely you can answer this?

I had forgotten all about this thread! It was the wild west back then. In 2007 ATS had ongoing bombardments from both the No Planers (to discredit the movement", and the "Skeptics" (the social group) who would muck up every thread using Red Herring tactics generally about turning every discussion into a pointless debate over the merits of "Loose Change 2nd Edition".

Now that I think of it, I don't recall the usual folks from the Skeptics crowd to ever step in on debunking the No Planer threads. They clearly loved the chaos it was causing the movement. So we had the many people holding many different views frantically trying to fend of the No Planers their overload tactics and all the discredit they represented, while in all the other threads the Skeptics would muck every issue up with LC 2nd Edition crap.

Enjoy!