Mystery Object Orbits Earth Now

Hmm, yea you have a point there but still there are a lot of things that just dont add up, including its alleged orbital path.
When I first heard that, I thought to myself. How can something that small (60 feet long) maintain an orbit with earth from about 500,000 miles away?
When is the next Shuttle mission going up?

Originally posted by carewemust
Is it really orbiting earth twice as far as the moon orbits the Earth, as the
BBC news report states? If so, doesn't that rule out almost anything man-
made?

[edit on 24-4-2007 by Kr0n0s]

For all the posts stating that NASA should not be relied upon as the only source for the solution to the anomaly, well NASA hasn't been the only source of information. I agree NASA doesn't tell the truth about many subjects of inquiry, however other sources are relied upon to come up with a most likely solution.

Here is explanation (albeit from an email from NASA) of the orbit of the anomaly. It makes sense to me that amateur astronomers were expected to find the object in one location but the sun solar incidence pressure changed the location in a predictable manner (ie equations). Here is the full email, dated way back in 2002.

>From Ron Baalke baalke-at-jpl.nasa.gov *added the anti spam email thingie*

neo.jpl.nasa.gov...

J002E3: An Update
Steve Chesley and Paul Chodas
NASA's Near-Earth Object Program Office
October 9, 2002

We have new results since our September 19 report on the distant Earth
satellite J002E3. Evidence continues to accumulate that J002E3 is the lost
S-IVB third stage from the Saturn V rocket used to launch the Apollo 12
lunar landing mission in November 1969.

J002E3 passed into the daytime morning sky around Sept. 24, and a week later
amateur astronomers Richard Fredrick and Vance Morgan at Powell Observatory
in Kansas recovered the object after it had crossed into the evening sky.
However, their measurements did not match the predicted position unless we
added a gentle push from solar radiation pressure to our acceleration model.
As more observations were reported over the next few days, it became clear,
not only that radiation pressure was detectable in the motion of the body,
confirming that J002E3 is a man-made object, but also that the size of this
acceleration matches very well with what we would expect for an S-IVB.

With the quality of our orbital solution improving, we decided to look to
see if this relatively bright object had been detected by other telescopes
before its discovery in the first week of September. Indeed, using the SkyMorph online
search system, we found a single trail from the fast-moving object on an image taken by the
NEAT-Palomar NEO survey on June 16, 2002. After we notified him of the
detection, Reiner Stoss of DANEOPS [ earn.dlr.de...] immediately
measured the precise position for us.

The new precovery data extended the arc of observations from 35 days to 114
days, dramatically improving our ability to determine the past and future
paths of this object and to measure the acceleration of solar radiation
pressure. At our last report we had only 15 days of observations and there
was greater uncertainty about what the future held for J002E3. We were not
sure how long it would remain in the Earth's vicinity, although it appeared
likely to escape next June. We could not even rule out the possibility of a
collision with the Earth or Moon over the the next year. It is now certain
that J002E3 will depart the Earth-Moon system in June 2003 and that there is
no possibility of an impact for several decades. In the years ahead J002E3
may be recaptured, but the first opportunity for this will not be until the
mid-2040s.

Looking into the past, we are still unable to connect the motion of J002E3
with the last know position of the Apollo 12 S-IVB. One reason is that the
solar radiation pressure is not constant in time, but rather changes with
its position around the sun; to precisely account for this effect we need to
know the pole of rotation. Furthermore, if J002E3 is the Apollo 12 S-IVB
then that stage spent more than a year in a highly chaotic orbit around the
Earth. So far these two factors have combined to prevent us from predicting
the position of J002E3 with sufficient precision to definitively link these
two objects. Nonetheless, we are hopeful that with continued observations,
and with the possibility of additional precovery observations, this link can
be conclusively established before J002E3 slips back into solar orbit next
summer.



[edit on 24-4-2007 by greatlakes]

Whats a Neo-NASA

Originally posted by zorgon
Whats a Neo-NASA

Huh? an NEO is an acronym for Near Earth Object.

Originally posted by greatlakes
Huh? an NEO is an acronym for Near Earth Object.

DOH! I knew that...

But then you missed the point

Found this in addition to just saying that some UA researchers found the object to sport white paint similar to the Ti-Ox paint of a Saturn IV booster.

orbitaldebris.jsc.nasa.gov...

NASS (NASA AMOS Spectral Study) began observations in May 2001 collecting data for 23 nights. Currently, data on more than 60 rocket bodies (R/Bs) and spacecraft (S/C) spectra have been collected using the 1.6 m telescope at the Air Force Maui Optical Supercomputing (AMOS) site. The remote spectra were compared to the database of spacecraft material spectra kept at JSC. Shown at the right is the reflectance spectrum of a LEO R/B (shown in black with more noise) overlaid with a laboratory sample (in red and smoother) in an attempt to characterize the material. This rocket body is identified as aluminum coated with white paint.

Spectral Wavelength Chart

orbitaldebris.jsc.nasa.gov...

A project that arose through the astronomy community highlighted the range of possible uses for the spacecraft materials spectral database. An object thought to be an asteroid, J002E3, was observed in September 2002. Its erratic orbit made astronomers question whether or not it was actually an asteroid. A spectrum, taken at the Infrared Telescope Facility (IRTF) on Mauna Kea, was sent to JSC to see if the spectrum would match man-made materials. A model of materials was created from known dimensions of a Saturn V upperstage and paint scheme. The models and the remote data are seen in Figure 2 . The variation between the two models is seen in the kind of white paint used. This object was concluded to be 60% white paint that has turned gold in color due to space environment exposure with the remaining materials being 10% black and 10% yellow paint and 20% exposed metals.

[edit on 24-4-2007 by greatlakes]

Saw this on Youtube.
Could this be what all the hoopla is about?

www.youtube.com...

COOL! So what we have here is an old piece of space junk, a spent fuel cartridge... that moved itself out of lunar orbit, put itself into a stable solar orbit fro thirty years, then left that orbit to go into Earth orbit

Quite a feat for "no fuel" I bet NASA drools over the ability to be able do that

Originally posted by zorgon
COOL! So what we have here is an old piece of space junk, a spent fuel cartridge... that moved itself out of lunar orbit, put itself into a stable solar orbit fro thirty years, then left that orbit to go into Earth orbit
Quite a feat for "no fuel" I bet NASA drools over the ability to be able do that

It is possible for the saturn booster to be kicked out of a weak orbit and then be recaptured by the earth-moon gravity system. The saturn IV of Apollo 12 was after a failed attempt to put this booster into a sun circular orbit. An accident occurred and the booster kick did not burn for the correct amount of time. Therefore this 'orbit' was an unexpected and anomalous one to begin with.

Here is some more info I'm trying to dig up:

SOURCE:
members.tripod.com...

First Confirmed Capture Into Earth Orbit is Likely Apollo Rocket, Not Another Natural Moon

NASA scientists have confirmed the first known capture of an object into Earth orbit from a Sun-centered orbit, thanks to continuing observations of what is most likely the long-lost third stage of a 1969 rocket to the Moon. "Last week we didn't know for sure that it had been captured, and now there's no doubt that it was captured in April of this year," said Dr. Paul Chodas of the Near-Earth Object Program Office at JPL. "What's more, we are virtually certain that it originally escaped Earth orbit in March 1971 and that it will escape again next June. It's only a temporary visitor." The object, named J002E3, was discovered Sept. 3 by Canadian amateur astronomer Bill Yeung, observing from El Centro, Calif.

Increasingly precise orbital calculations made possible from a second week of positional observations have nearly ruled out any chance the object will hit the Moon or enter Earth's atmosphere before it departs Earth orbit, Chodas said. Calculations made about a week after the discovery left higher impact possibilities, but now the chances of impact are less than 1 percent at either the Moon or Earth, and a third week of observations will likely push the odds to zero. The object is too small to be considered hazardous, in any case. More than 100 measurements of the object's position have now been reported from more than a dozen amateur astronomers, said JPL's Dr. Steven Chesley.

The two weeks of movement tracked by those observations make up about a sixth of one orbit around Earth. Scientists can extrapolate the object's path for years into the future and years into the past from that short arc. "The observations coming in are from a loosely organized network of dedicated amateur observers. Their data have been vital in determining this object's past and future paths," Chesley said. The object escaped from Earth orbit in March 1971, Chodas said. That fits its most likely identity as the third stage of the Saturn rocket that took Apollo 12 astronauts to the Moon in November 1969.

The 18-meter-long (60-foot-long) third stage was last seen in an elongated 43-day orbit around Earth, not much different from J002E3's current orbit. It probably completed nine or 10 Earth orbits, then swung far enough toward the Sun to be pulled into a Sun-centered orbit, he said. The transition happened through a special "portal" located at the L1 Lagrangian point, where the gravitational pulls of the Sun and Earth are approximately equal. Analysis this week by researchers from the University of Arizona, and MIT, suggests that J002E3's surface is white paint rather than more asteroid-like material. If it is not from the Apollo 12 rocket, some less likely possibilities are one of the four 7-meter-long (22-foot-long) panels that enclosed lunar modules from six Apollo missions or rocket stages from Soviet or U.S. unmanned lunar missions.

Those are less likely because they seem too small to match the object's observed brightness, and they are not known to have been left in orbits that could have escaped Earth. Additional observations in coming weeks may pin down the identification. After J002E3 escaped Earth's gravity in 1971, it raced Earth in circles around the Sun, but it had an inner lane, so it completed 33 solar orbits in the time it took Earth to complete 31. In 1986, the object lapped Earth on the inside, too far away to be snagged by Earth's gravity. This year, it was about to lap Earth again but passed too close to the L1 portal and Earth captured it.

The transition between Earth-centered dynamics and Sun-centered dynamics has been understood theoretically for years and has been used for designing orbits of some spacecraft, but this is the first time a capture into Earth orbit has been confirmed, Chodas said. Comet Shoemaker-Levy 9, which struck Jupiter in 1994, made this kind of transition into Jupiter's orbit several decades earlier. The Genesis spacecraft, currently collecting samples of solar-wind material near the L1 point, will use a similar maneuver for a low-energy return to Earth with the samples in 2004. Earth won't have seen the last of J002E3 when this peripatetic bit of space junk escapes after its sixth orbit in mid-2003. It will shift from solar orbit to Earth orbit again in decades ahead. "This type of orbit can't last very long," Chodas said. "That's one reason it would be very unlikely to find an asteroid with an orbit like this."

Within several thousand years, the object will likely end its travels by hitting the Moon or Earth. That is not cause for concern, though. Five rocket stages like the Apollo 12 third stage were crashed into the Moon intentionally as part of seismic research, and several others harmlessly disintegrated when they re-entered Earth's atmosphere. Images of J002E3's calculated path are available atneo.jpl.nasa.gov...

[edit on 24-4-2007 by greatlakes]

I am also trying to pull up the PDF document from IEEE which is:

Photometric and spectral analysis of MPC object J002E3
Lambert, J.V.; Hamada, K.; Hall, D.T.; Africano, J.L.; Giffin, M.; Luu, K.; Kervin, P.; Jorgensen, K.
Page(s): 2866- 2873 Vol.5
Abstract | Full Text: PDF (539 KB)
Rights and Permissions

I want to access the PDF full text but cannot get the document in a corect format. Anyone? Can anyone access this document, I think it will shed some more evidence to the anomaly.

Here is a link:
ieeexplore.ieee.org...

And here's some MIT chaps that identify it (along with the fellows at University of Arizona who came to the same conclusion) that this is Titanium Oxide paint:

MIT astronomers ID object as Apollo stage

SOURCE: web.mit.edu...

Astronomers at MIT played a key role this week in identifying a near-Earth object as most likely the third stage of an Apollo-era moon rocket.

Based on an analysis of the orbital trajectory of the object, it appears that the object is the S-IVB stage from the Apollo 12 mission, launched to the moon on Nov. 14, 1969. Further analysis by NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory scientists indicates that the object is likely to complete six orbits of the Earth and then return to an orbit around the Sun sometime next summer.

The orbit has been degrading and switching orbit host bodies. It was expected to transfer to a sun circular orbit summer 2003. Hardly call this a stable orbit.

HAahaha "gental push from solar radiation", That's a good one!

Ok firstly, this thing could not possibly act as a solar sail. Why? Because its so damn small. 55.741824 square meters is absolutely NOTHING in space. And with an orbit which extends twice the distance of the moon it must have a huge amount of momentum. Are you suggesting that ion wind from the sun hitting a 55 square meter surface can significantly adjust an object which is in an elipitic orbit extending twice the distance of the moon around the earth?

More bunk released by NASA.

My thoughts on what this might be are:
Debris from a recent secret missions. NASA has space planes, what do you think the phoenix lights were? The hidden technology is far superior to the liquid bomb technology you see on T.V.

Don’t get me wrong, this could *actually be* some part of a lost moon mission. But I *could actually* win lotto five times in a row without entering and be struck by lightning in the same week! In fact, I’m guessing the latter is probably the more likely of the two.

YANDROSS If you are still about, I would like to disagree with your signature. This may show your expertise in the matter of matierial may be challenged. Your declaration of the burning temp of jet gas did not take into account pressure

Originally posted by Yandros

Originally posted by carewemust

Originally posted by Yandros

Originally posted by carewemust
I've read that NORAD tracks over 30,000 man made pieces of earth-orbiting space debris as small as tennis balls on a 24/7 basis.

AHahaha yeah but they couldn't track two planes on ground radar on 9/11 because 'there was too many blips on the radar', and 'the planes turned their transponders off.'

Yandros, I think you're referring to the FAA not being able to alert the military until it was too late on 9/11/2001. NORAD if focused on military threats and tracking man-made objects in outer-space.. SEE: www.norad.mil...
-cwm

Oh yes and I suppose hijacked planes aren't considered military threats? Let me let you in on a little secret. Whenever there is unmarked unidentified metal flying in US radar, NORAD knows all about it.

NORAD didn't know the 9/11 planes were off course. They were 3 of the thousands of civilian aircraft that fly our skies every day. It was the FAA's responsibility to alert the military and other authorities when the planes went off their designated course. Not NORAD's. This may not be the case now though, with more thorough homeland security measures in place.

[edit on 24-4-2007 by carewemust]

You guys are offtopic. If you want to debate 9/11 go to the 9/11 forums.

Originally posted by greatlakes
And here's some MIT chaps that identify it (along with the fellows at University of Arizona who came to the same conclusion) that this is Titanium Oxide paint:

MIT astronomers ID object as Apollo stage

you have done lots of reaserch on this topic! but what do you think it is greatlakes? space junk or ufo?

[edit on 24-4-2007 by misterfantastic]

Originally posted by misterfantastic
you have done lots of reaserch on this topic! but what do you think it is greatlakes? space junk or ufo?

Well not positive or certain at this point. I am almost siding with the space debris, whether Saturn IVb Stage or other object due to the circumstantial evidence presented thus far. I would like to see some NON-ORGANIZATIONAL reports an studies into the object if any exist. That is to say some NON Nasa, IEEE, MIT, UA or other university findings just to as a sanity check.

Also seeing that this has been around since 2002 (1st sighting) and has not really made much news...But this says nothing, look at all of the controversial theories that are around for decades.

Since siding with the man-made debris side, it's not to say that it is definitely a Saturn IV boostr, it could well be a secret space mil. remnant. I could imagine that since there are non-military debris floating about, there must be some classified debris as well that are not public knowledge of course.

So thats my answer as unsatisfactory as it is

[edit on 24-4-2007 by greatlakes]

Must be something other then a part from the ship. We have been up in space since it was discovered right, there is no way imo we didnt go up and make sure what it was.

Originally posted by -ufo-
Hal9000,

What about these photos? (notice they were taken on the 1st year anniversary of 9-11, at the EXACT minute both planes hit WTC 1 and 2, 8:46, 9:02)



It says they were taken separated by ten-minute intervals with 60-sec. exposures each. If that is true then this must be the most fast and most slow object in the entire world. If it can move that far of a distance in 60 sec's, but only 10 minutes later, still be near the same stars it was 10 minutes earlyer, then WTF?

Hal9000 you have to be incorrect, and these objects are in fact long and skinny.

No, the lines in this image were added to point to the object. I took the image and added red circles to show the object with arrows pointing the direction it is moving.

The white lines are added to the photos to point to the object.



Again, watch the little movie clip and you will see the object moving and it does not look like a squiggly line.

Nasa movie clip of J002E3

[edit on 4/24/2007 by Hal9000]

Originally posted by NLDelta9
Must be something other then a part from the ship. We have been up in space since it was discovered right, there is no way imo we didnt go up and make sure what it was.

The object is 500,000 miles away. Why would we spend 100 million dollars to build and send a probe that far from Earth just to look at something that has been floating there for at least 31 years, whether it be space junk or an asteroid. It's not like we can send the space shuttle, since the shuttle only goes about a maximum of 350 miles high (that's still 499,650 miles short.)

There's nothing strange about finding objects out there at that distance. Whats strange about this one is that seems to have been captured by Earth's gravity, and its color seems to be consistent with Titaium oxide white paint - the same paint used on the saturn v rocket. I would have been shocked if we bothered to spend the money to send a probe to investigate it. That would have been a huge waste of taxpayers' money.