ELF Technology Used to Manipulate Citizens

From what random pieces of information I have read about ELF technology, it seems possible that it has the capacity to be used to alter or even purposefully manipulate human behavior.
Such tech could be used to drive a victim insane over a long period of time. It could also be used to change the brain wave patterns of an individual. This can then either make the victim docile, scare, happy, sad, depressed, angry, hostile, create tinnitus, visual or audio hallucinations etc.

What sort of building/tower would give off a frequency that could do that? Cellular phone towers probably have the capacity. Maybe local military instillations radio/radar towers.

HAARP is another device that uses ELF technology.

Here's a interesting article I found about ELF technology.

ELF Technology

I looked at the site..it's Begich, so you know that it's most likely incorrect before you start reading. He likes to talk a lot about technical issues, but it's my understanding that his "doctorate" is in homeopathy, and it might be honorary on top of that. It's certainly not in physics or EE.

The deal with ELF is that the wavelengths are just farking HUGE compared with you. So your body is an incredibly crappy ELF antenna. It's nearly impossible for ELF to actually have any effect on you for that reason.

Next, it's nearly impossible to transmit ELF for the same reason. Navy's now-retired ELF system managed to radiate something like 60W of ELF power out of something like 4MW power input to the transmitter. The reason why has to do with efficiency of an antenna. It's really closely related to the physical dimensions of the antenna and the wavelength. ELF has a farking huge wavelength - the ELF band ranges from 621 miles to 6300 miles in wavelength. Navy's antennas were only something like 75 miles in length, so they just sucked really badly at efficiency. You only being a few feet long are far far worse as a receiving antenna.

The most energetic ELF band activity by far comes from various power distribution systems. You can't use 50 or 60Hz for anything in the ELF band because there's a huge amount of crap there from the power lines. But even then, it's not that much total power. You are hit with millions of times that amount of RF from TV stations.

To answer Cerkit, you have to understand that ELF cannot be directed. Even if it could be used that way, you couldn't pick out one person to manipulate. You could not possibly transmit ELF from a cell tower, or a radar.

HAARP does not directly use ELF, it can't directly radiate it. It can induce ELF by wobbling the electrojet, which is just technically amazing, but the power output is not very high.

Navy has shut down the ELF stations and future subs will use VLF or other methods of communication for action alerts. Russia still transmits on ELF for its subs.

Tom,
Thanks for clearing that up for the less than technically savvy among us. Is it possible to manipulate the chemistry of humans ( foods, pollution, etc.) to make us better electrical conduits for ELF?

Originally posted by whitewave
Tom,
Thanks for clearing that up for the less than technically savvy among us. Is it possible to manipulate the chemistry of humans ( foods, pollution, etc.) to make us better electrical conduits for ELF?

It's not so much a matter of conductivity or whatnot, but that you're so very small lengthwise in proportion to an ELF wave. If you held onto a wire 100 miles long, that would help!

Seriously, ELF is tough to get much power into or out of. Subs used to trail 600 meter antennas with electrodes embedded in them. You didn't look for the wave itself as much as you did the E-field gradient that a wave of that frequency would produce, because you couldn't tow a proper antenna. Later subs used SQUIDs to pick up the H-field component (appropriate) instead. Now they use VLF.

That to say, you have to really work your butt off to receive it with an antenna engineered to do the trick, your body ain't that good of an antenna and you're not 600 meters long.

ELF below 10 hertz and how to narrow the wave to focus it is extremely interesting reading. Been looking into ELF for awhile now, its affects on humans when turned up as well as it mind-manipulating capacity.
And it's possible effects on primary/secondary vehicle ignition system and radio interference cause (non diesal/Non turbfan). It can penetrate most metals and can effect the conscious mind is what I'm understanding.

My interest in ELF happened over a few things, one being the Kelly Cahill case. She claimed before going unconscious she was over taken by what she felt were low frequency waves that she could literally feel.

Dallas

Originally posted by Dallas

ELF below 10 hertz and how to narrow the wave to focus it is extremely interesting reading.

Fiction is generally more interesting than actual technical stuff, so I'm sure it was more enjoyable than the physics involved. In general, you can't focus any sort of EM to a spot that is smaller than half the wavelength of the emitter. So for a 300 Hz ELF transmitter, if you had a 10000 mile radius parabolic (that was totally perfect mechanically) you could get a spot size of maybe 310 miles. Now, if you had about a 6000 mile wide, 1200 mile deep metamaterial lens, you could do some magic with evanescent waves and get the thing down to a spectacular 150 miles, maybe with some work down to 100 miles.

There is not any such thing as "narrowing the wave". An ELF wave is the size it is.

Been looking into ELF for awhile now, its affects on humans when turned up as well as it mind-manipulating capacity.

Unfortunately there is a wealth of crap written by the uninformed on ELF. I've read some stuff that makes me think the writers are not only having you on, but are pushing the envelope to see just how credulous you are. One of these is the "ELF can make you hear things/see things/transmit images into your mind" camp. No one who had a clue could believe this.

You can't modulate a signal faster than about 1/2 the frequency, and even that will be incredibly noisy. You really need to limit the modulation rate to about a tenth of the carrier frequency. So your 10Hz ELF can't be turned on and off faster than about once per second without introducing a lot of noise. If you ever wondered why submarine movies always show ELF alert messages coming in so slowly, that's why. You can't send video over ELF. There is no way to send an image in real time. You can't even send TTY or Morse over ELF. The fastest modulation rate you can get is so slow that the Navy used codebooks with three letter sequences translating into phrases, because it would have taken about ten seconds for each letter if you include framing. A large ATS post of 8000 characters would take about 23 hours to transmit.

And it's possible effects on primary/secondary vehicle ignition system and radio interference cause (non diesal/Non turbfan). It can penetrate most metals and can effect the conscious mind is what I'm understanding.

ELF is far far far too large of a wavelength to interact with vehicles. Even if you could transmit a lot of it, and you can't, the car/plane wouldn't intercept any of it to amount to anything. What you've heard about there are generally microwave frequencies, not ELF.

My interest in ELF happened over a few things, one being the Kelly Cahill case. She claimed before going unconscious she was over taken by what she felt were low frequency waves that she could literally feel.

Dallas

You can't really feel RF as waves like that. However, feeling waves of tingling sensations are par for the course for someone having a hypnogogic dream sequence.

edit: typo

[edit on 19-4-2007 by Tom Bedlam]

Curiosity kicking in again....If ELF is so grossly inefficient, why would the Navy use it in the first place? Also, with the alleged HAARP effect on the stratosphere, is it possible that the entire atmosphere could be made into a conductor for ELF, negating the need for specialized antennaes?

Originally posted by whitewave
Curiosity kicking in again....If ELF is so grossly inefficient, why would the Navy use it in the first place?

This is an excellent question, and you get a virtual gold paper star on your lapel (poink!).

The short answer is, it's the only way to get a radio signal to reach under a lot of seawater. Seawater is conductive, it eats up the radio signal, and the degree to which this happens is directly proportional to the frequency you use.

The long answer goes like this. All materials have properties that affect the way that radio signals propagate through them. Back in 1864, an exceptionally brilliant man named James Maxwell produced a set of 20 equations in 20 variables that describe how electromagnetic signals propagate, and how the materials they're propagating in affect them. It was an Einsteinian moment. They were so profound and so complex, that only a few people understood them or could work with them.

Another guy named Oliver Heaviside came along and chopped it down into four succinct equations that all comm theory EEs have used since. Whether Oliver tossed out babies in that bathwater is a matter of long years of conjecture, but at any rate, that's the model we all use.

Among other things, these equations can be used to calculate the rate of signal loss due to a thickness of a material of specified qualities. In this case, you need the permeability, the permittivity, and the conductivity figures. Permeability and permittivity are a measure of how hard it is for a signal to push its magnetic and electric vector components into the material, and the conductivity tells you how much of the signal becomes converted to heat. That's sort of a simplification but I'm going to leave out the field theory as much as possible.

As I said before, the higher the frequency, the faster the signal is lost in any medium except vacuum. So, let's take the commonly used values for seawater.

If I had an AM radio station on the shore trying to send a signal to a submerged sub, and the station was at 1MHz, about the middle of the AM band, the seawater would eat up the signal at the rate of 34.5dB per meter. Now, 3 dB is a loss of half the signal. So 34.5 dB is like losing half, then half of that, then half of that about 11 times in a row. Per meter of seawater.

You can visualize how fast this is going to eat up the signal, and in fact, you just can't live with that.

As a side note, a 1GHz signal would lose half its strength in 3mm of seawater.

But for the ELF rig at 100Hz, you only lose 0.345dB/m, that's still bad but it's a lot better than 34.5dB. It leaves you a handful of nanovolts of signal at the depths they lurk in, which is tough but still practical to pull out of the noise.

Also, with the alleged HAARP effect on the stratosphere, is it possible that the entire atmosphere could be made into a conductor for ELF, negating the need for specialized antennaes?

Well, it's not alleged. This is one of the 'real' things they do. They put the details on the HAARP website, which surprised me seeing that we weren't released from NDA on it. But the website's page is correct on this function, so if you go there you can read about it in more detail than I'll give here.

Now, this is also a very good question, so you get another gold star (poink!).

I imagine that most of the radio signal conductors you've seen are probably something like the coax used by the cable company. But you can also run radio in pipes like water. We call those waveguides. A waveguide is usually shaped and sized to fit the radio signal it's carrying, so you couldn't use one the size of your finger for ELF.

All it takes to make a waveguide is an enclosed conductive surface. One way to make one is to put a conductive sphere inside a conductive sphere, with air in between them. Like the Earth and the ionosphere. Both fill the bill nicely, and in fact the two form a waveguide that works very nicely for lots of different radio signals. As I said, the size and shape of the waveguide determines the most efficient frequency that the waveguide operates at. In the case of the Earth, there are resonances at 6.5Hz, 18Hz and so on. This is called the "Schumann resonance". I suspect you've heard that term bandied about by the less-informed.

Here's a neat site with some graphics that will help you see it.

In fact, all the Schumann resonance is, is the resonant frequency of the Earth-ionosphere waveguide. Period. Since the ionosphere moves around a lot from night to day, and from day to day, due to the Sun and other incoming EM, the Schumann resonance drifts around, and is not an 'exact' resonance like you'd get if the Earth and ionosphere were nice rigid metal spheres, there's actually a series of peaks. The Schumann numbers are used by a number of different sciences and there are actually Schumann measuring sites on the net so you can get today's numbers.

I imagine you have heard a lot of hooey about it being the "life force" or "life beat of Gaia" or some such clap trap. That's all crap. It's no more spiritual than blowing across the neck of a Coke bottle and it's the same effect in general. A tuned cavity resonating at a frequency. The end.

Anyways, ELF uses this ionosphere-Earth waveguide to propagate in, like your cable signal uses coax. So, yes, the waveguide is a conductor of it, but it's not the generator of it, nor the antenna. The old way to do the antenna was to use 75 mile long cables (it looks like power wires if you don't know what it is) that run over bedrock that has some desired qualities (like permittivity, permeability and conductivity). Once the wave comes off the antenna, it propagates in your waveguide, but you can't use the waveguide itself to launch the wave. HAARP could use another way to generate the wave, but again, once launched it propagates in the Earth-ionosphere waveguide.

Technically speaking, the far field of the old Naval system formed a horizontal magnetic field and a vertical electrical field, and the propagation in the waveguide was by means of a quasi-TEM mode. A leakage field also occurs, directed into the surface of the Earth, and subsurface communications use this leakage field. The leakage field is a plane TEM wave that follows a propagation law similar to that of the voltage in a transmission line, and that's the law you use to calculate loss per meter.

On the HAARP website they'll tell you how they do that.

The ELF/ULF control theory is wide spread and not crap as suggested.
People writing miles of stuff and fluff about this subject can be found all over the web. I believe here we look at the extreme with a more open mind, and not as know-it-alls.

Because someone may feel it's impossible to manipulate ELF waves, means exactly the same as people saying it can be done, I feel.
Not all that long ago, the scientific community said life could not exist without Light and Water. That was basic high school teaching, then trench exploration happened, out the door went that theory so many were raised to believe as fact.

ELF hit a nerve with me as I said after reading an abduction report which occurred in Australia. A similar case involved a group of Military people in England, both happened between 1978 -1995.

I don't pretend to be a science major, but I can read and do. "There are two types of knowledge, one we know the subject matter our self, or two, we know where to find information upon it".

Until I convince myself otherwise, I feel there's something happening in the experimentation of human control and possible vehicle interference that is based in ELF/ULF. There's lots of new science out there, but how much of it do you really think is made public?


educate-yourself.org...

Originally posted by Dallas

The ELF/ULF control theory is wide spread and not crap as suggested.
People writing miles of stuff and fluff about this subject can be found all over the web. I believe here we look at the extreme with a more open mind, and not as know-it-alls.

Sure it's widespread, but it's spread wide by those who don't understand what they're talking about. It's like finding all sorts of sites that tell you baseballs are wound out of titanium. You know darn well they're not, but all the people who've never uncovered one and know it's sort of a flat yarn inside aren't convinced, and generate lots of fanboi sites echoing the false data.

More to the point, I'm a comm theory guy. I have degrees in the stuff. Not in homeopathy or what have you. So if you tell me ELF beams are coming out of cell towers and projecting movies in my mind, then yes, I know that ain't happenin'. It's not a matter of an open mind.

Because someone may feel it's impossible to manipulate ELF waves, means exactly the same as people saying it can be done, I feel.
Not all that long ago, the scientific community said life could not exist without Light and Water. That was basic high school teaching, then trench exploration happened, out the door went that theory so many were raised to believe as fact.

But if I told you I could make life in my microwave by mixing Saran Wrap and Ajax in a paper cup, and there were lots of amateur websites that agreed, would that convince you? Telling me you can send movies with ELF into someone's head is less likely.

ELF hit a nerve with me as I said after reading an abduction report which occurred in Australia. A similar case involved a group of Military people in England, both happened between 1978 -1995.

Whether they did or didn't happen, I'm puzzled why the first description of "I felt waves of sensation moving through me" has to instantly be ELF. Do you feel your local TV station doing that? It would be the last thing I'd think of, but whatever floats your boat I guess.

I don't pretend to be a science major, but I can read and do. "There are two types of knowledge, one we know the subject matter our self, or two, we know where to find information upon it".

You know, that's very true, to a point. The problems that I see happen when someone who is not, as you say, a science major, try reading fairly complicated stuff and drawing conclusions based on it. Comm theory ain't easy, and you tend to forget the fine details of the stuff you don't work on all the time. But with no background at all anything sounds feasible, and you start basing your opinions on "most repeated" which are generally easy to understand because the people writing it aren't any more knowledgeable than you are yourself, instead of "most authoritative" which looks like Greek gobbledy-gook with equations and terms you don't understand.

So your statement might work really well for getting details of the Battle of Jutland or how to plant tomatoes, but I wouldn't want to go read a few websites and do some surgery on my kid. YMMV.

Until I convince myself otherwise, I feel there's something happening in the experimentation of human control and possible vehicle interference that is based in ELF/ULF. There's lots of new science out there, but how much of it do you really think is made public?

educate-yourself.org...

That website is among the worst and most misinformative out there. Alex Jones looks like the Encyclopedia Brittanica compared to it. I go there for laughs. I especially enjoyed the "holy hand grenade" instructions. I thought it was a sort of "The Onion" mocking the 'true believer' crowd at first, but eventually I came to the conclusion that the guy was serious. Very sad.

If you liked that one, you ought to try www.timecube.com.

Are the leakage fields used as subsurface communications the same thing as G.W.E.N. (ground wave emergency network)?

Tom Bedlam wrote MisQuote:
"I felt waves of sensation moving through me" .

The above is NOT what I quoted.

______________________

The following corrects the above:

She claimed before going unconscious she was over taken by what she felt were low frequency waves that she could literally feel.

______________________


Seems to me, known Science is growing so fast (the Science they release to the public) it can be out of date by the time a book's published, thank goodness the web's around. Take ELF, the subject matter on this thread in General Conspiracy Discussion.
Science books said the Coelacanth from the Cretaceous period was extinct aha, another blunder.


More ELF info for the interested:
www.ivanfraser.com...

Dallas

Originally posted by whitewave
Are the leakage fields used as subsurface communications the same thing as G.W.E.N. (ground wave emergency network)?

It's not related.

Basically, the problem is that if you get a high altitude nuclear detonation (HAND, sometimes you'll also see HEMP), the ionosphere will be screwy for quite some time.

The military uses a lot of radio comms in the 3-30MHz range that bounce off the ionosphere like AM radio stations do. An HF station depends on this to get the range it does - if you were a HAM operator working Europe on 20 meters or something, that's how you get past "line of sight".

Coming off the transmitting station's antenna, there are different types of waves that leave: space waves, direct waves, surface waves, ground-reflected waves and so on. For low frequency comms with long antennas, you get a combo of surface waves and space waves that combine to form the "ground wave", which doesn't depend on ionospheric reflection to work.

GWEN depends on LF transmitters with the antennas sized to produce ground waves instead of just surface waves. Ground waves have more butt.

The whole concept is to get the biggest range out of the system without depending on the ionosphere for propagation.

Thank you, TB, for clearing that up and for your valued and learned insight. I've read a lot about HAARP and ELF but was more confused when I finished than before I started. Your explanation is much clearer.
Are you familiar with the book by Jeanne Manning (I think) entitled, "Angels Don't Play this Haarp"? Hers was the first I read about ELF (and HAARP specifically) being used to put thoughts into people's minds. It's disturbing in the extreme if possible.

Originally posted by whitewave
Thank you, TB, for clearing that up and for your valued and learned insight. I've read a lot about HAARP and ELF but was more confused when I finished than before I started. Your explanation is much clearer.
Are you familiar with the book by Jeanne Manning (I think) entitled, "Angels Don't Play this Haarp"? Hers was the first I read about ELF (and HAARP specifically) being used to put thoughts into people's minds. It's disturbing in the extreme if possible.

Well, Manning and Begich are not exactly qualified to be commenting on it. He's a doctor of homeopathy although he often seems to be trying to imply he's a physicist. Begich has a very soft and generally wrong understanding of most technical issues.

I wrote a long tirade about what I take to be a chapter of this book, at any rate it's on his website. It's far too long to post on a thread, I'll try U2Uing to you.

oooh! a technical tirade! this is going to be good!

I don't know a thing about ELF or what frequencies the brain operates on, but do know from personal experience that the ability to manipulate peoples feelings with EM waves exists. Sadness, anger, sexual arousal, and the suppression of arousal, as well as eliminating the ability to sleep are all effects I have experienced. The sleep deprivation effect I have experienced even in the most remote locations, with an accompanying particular ring in the ears, which leads me to believe it can done by satellite. There's also the fact that the effect is much less pronounced during the day, rather like the way radio waves are effected by the sun. Of course there are ways to use EM waves locally as well, as many people have reported.

edited for SP

[edit on 21-4-2007 by resistor]

Each to his own - but there are other more prosaic explanations for feelings that you are being controlled by external forces.

Given the complexity of the brain and our level of understanding of it, I can't imagine what it would require to induce specific emotions on demand, much less to do so from a great distance.

Since the very first days of radio, people have worried that the radio stations were controlling them. So you're in good company that spans all the way back to Fessenden.

I used to get Begich's publication. Sells some fun stuff in there. That was back in the day when he had teamed up with Dr. Patrick Gael Flannigan who really is a brainiac. Apparently they had some sort of falling out and Dr. Flannigan moved to Arizona, married a woman who later died of suspected Ketamine poisoning.

Got your tirade against Begich in the U2U you sent, Tom. Cleared up a lot of questions I had about his material. Thanks.

So, if ELF is only good for underwater communications and has been replaced with more efficient methods, is it being used for anything anymore? Is HAARP using it at all? And, if so, what would be the beneficial applications of using ELF? Thanks in advance for your response.