The notions of aliens being present here (and allowing this...) is absurd

Originally posted by Gazrok
Well, that was certainly quite a few swweping statements....

EDIT: It's not even an alien debunker video. It does however prove beytond the shadow of a doubt what our establishment has well underway for us, and those developments makes it seem absurd that there could be aliens here who would allow us to do it.

Then that just goes to show that you have irrational biases in your beleifs, like a Bush supporter who refuses to see something after you inform them how damning your material is against him.

Irrational? You mean like how irrational it is to assume that you know an alien's mindset and what they would "allow"

Usually, I wouldn't bother, as this thread was obviously started as flamebait...but a real case of pot calling the kettle black here.....

And to make the sweeping statement of sightings being mass hysteria, etc., last I checked, mass hysteria doesn't show up on radar, in gun camera footage, nor spark the government into numerous programs (such as Grudge, Sign, and Bluebook) to assess their threat....

As for telling members to "get a life", you have NO idea what many other members do, or their level of "life". Contrary to popular opinion, many conspiracy enthusiasts do NOT live in their parents' basements, wear tin foil hats, and read Catcher in the Rye over and over.... Many are likely making more than you (or I) and have lives that are enviable... There are Phd's here, ex-NASA folks, scientists, pros in their field, etc. I assure you, we have "lives"....

I added that edit so that people wouldn't follow the leader and simply refuse to watch it even though it's not an actual hit piece on UFO's. It's important info regardless of views or beliefs. It's universal.

I clearly asked for some irrefutable proof to set the frame. I'm still waiting....

So, um, where did I tell anyone to "get a life"?

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan
Unfortunately, the supposition of the starter of this thread hinges on motives that are obvious and available to a human. The notion of separate creatures with separate psychology and separate experience sets are precluded.

My dog probably views me with the same confusion. When i yell "Over There!" and point to where i just threw a piece of meat he didn't see me thrown, he slinks off like he is in trouble. Why? Because he cannot understand things on my level and inserts his own version of motive in where his understanding leaves off.

maybe we are here to walk a path, to live a script. Maybe our life is only "unknown" to us because we have temporal ignorance? This would explain why ET's stay uninvolved: we have a script to live and their interference is not written into this script. Does this make sense?

You cannot put your own motives in for a creature that you do not understand. It is like stabbing in the dark.

[edit on 25-3-2007 by bigfatfurrytexan]

Ok then everyone... why are they here?

Total speculation. [See: Simulation Argument]

In the meantime, there's serious issues actually happening on planet Earth. While everyone is distracted on TV driven issues like American idol, GWB, the Pentagon and UFO's (there's no question they propagate it over the TV), serious things are happening and fast.

The propaganda model is based on either hooking people (about 20%) deeply biased into the 2 party political system, and then you divert the rest into sports and other fluff. But then there's the independant/alarmist/theorist/actually-paranoid types who will actually look back. For these types you have to scare and divert them. What was the name of that radio broadcast that caused mass hysteria, you know, right around the times when the alien/ufo issue became a mainstream and then widely reported concept??

I was diverted into entertaining all this, diversion, in past times... and the 'scene' aint changed. Nothing but obscure photos and allegid accounts in an era when everyone wants 15 minutes of fame and to be on TV. These are the things that are hardly speculation.

[edit on 26-3-2007 by IgnoranceIsntBlisss]

[edit on 26-3-2007 by IgnoranceIsntBlisss]

Originally posted by cpdaman

It does however prove beytond the shadow of a doubt what our establishment has well underway for us, and those developments makes it seem absurd that there could be aliens here who would allow us to do it.

what makes you think aliens would be so up in arms about something like this, because obviously this is what holds this opinion of yours up on two legs

I touched on this above... and even pointed out how the D.P. guy is intense about just the space weapons technology alone being a provocative threat.

From the alien imperialism view, which assumes the overlord concept, the AI GIG system with integrated global technologies is a total threat to such control. Such consciousness is quite unpredictable, especially considering the dataset. For example everything on Google, including [bold]this[/bold] thread, all being part of its perspective.

say for an instant you see aliens as a step up on the universal foodchain above us and think of there treatment like us , similiar to how we treat animals (we experiment and do tests on some of them to "theoretically better are own lives thru finding out what is safe and what is not and in some cases feeding us) it is not that we hate the animals but we see them as expendable if it makes our lives easier, maybe the aliens just see this as necessary to keep humans in the dark during a period when some beleive we will have an expanded consciousness.

Why would such advanced beings need to test on us? As far as the 'genesis' view, would 'on earth' would they engineer humans and waste a perfectly good colony planet? Earth's dont come a dime a dozen.
Why would they need human slaves to mine with all of their advanced machinery, and where is some trace of said machinery? Us being mere slaves, why not kill us after 'taming it' and inhabit the earth? Different atmosphere? Then why not terraform it? Apparently the DOD thinks they can with our "primative" technologies.

Originally posted by TheStev
Ah the irony. The only truly 'absurd' thing in this thread (as has been pointed out by others) is the OP's belief that any kind of solid conclusion can be reached based on speculative motives of alleged beings.

I'm still waiting for a plausible one...

Originally posted by IgnoranceIsntBlisss
Earth's dont come a dime a dozen.

Please let me know the frequency with which Earth-like planets are distributed within the Milky Way.

Your metaphor implies that planets like Earth are not common, so you must have information that leads you to that conclusion? Please supply me with a link to the research data that you studied to conclude that "Earth's dont come a dime a dozen".

Originally posted by IgnoranceIsntBlisss
Why would such advanced beings need to test on us? As far as the 'genesis' view, would 'on earth' would they engineer humans and waste a perfectly good colony planet? Earth's dont come a dime a dozen.
Why would they need human slaves to mine with all of their advanced machinery, and where is some trace of said machinery? Us being mere slaves, why not kill us after 'taming it' and inhabit the earth? Different atmosphere? Then why not terraform it? Apparently the DOD thinks they can with our "primative" technologies.

They come here now and then to take some new samples of their favourate food source to test the toxin levels in them... hmmmm too contaminated... better not eat these, lets just get a few samples and grow healthier hybrid ones else where on another planet, the ones here would eventually die from all that contamination.

No point using this planet as a farm when it is getting so toxic, let them carry on with their numbered lives .....hehheeee

This had better no be true....

You can wait as long as you want, but you see, most people are not naive enough to speculate on something they have absolutely no information of.

It's outlandish to try and speculate on why some animals do some of the weird things they do...but to speculate on beings we've never even seen before is just...

Speculating on a speculation.

Originally posted by IgnoranceIsntBlisss

What was the name of that radio broadcast that caused mass hysteria, you know, right around the times when the alien/ufo issue became a mainstream and then widely reported concept??

The name of the radio broadcast was War of the Worlds. It was written in 1898.

It was performed on air in 1938.

The Roswell UFO incident happened in 1947. I would consider that is when UFO's went mainstream.

The "Battle of L.A." happened in 1942.
www.abovetopsecret.com...


Ahh. I fell for the flame bait. Oh well.

Originally posted by IgnoranceIsntBlisss
Nothing but obscure photos and allegid accounts in an era when everyone wants 15 minutes of fame and to be on TV.

Should I go watch your video now?

And if you want some UFO case to look at and ponder, what was that, work with the battle of l.a. case.

Order the February 25th and 26th LA Times from 1942 and look at the obscure photos and alleged accounts.

I guess they wanted fame.

So, um, where did I tell anyone to "get a life"?

Right here….

You people need to stop chasing pipe dreams and pure speculation and start facing the REAL and UNDENIABLE threats that we have here and NOW.

It’s a loose translation, but the general debunker attitude of “get a life” certainly is seeping out…

Ok then everyone... why are they here?

Total speculation (on any side)…

All we can do is look at the evidence…
1. UFO sightings seem to show a preference of proximity to military targets.
2. There is evidence that UFOs interfered with weapons and ships in numerous cases
3. Reported abductions
4. Desire for secrecy and evasion

Seems that they aren’t looking to invade, and aren’t looking to be friends or helpful…so what’s left? Indifference? Or perhaps just ensuring we stay confined to our little planet…at least until we no longer are the way we are. Who knows? It’s all speculation, but even speculation can be based on reason….

The propaganda model is based on either hooking people (about 20%) deeply biased into the 2 party political system, and then you divert the rest into sports and other fluff. But then there's the independant/alarmist/theorist/actually-paranoid types who will actually look back. For these types you have to scare and divert them. What was the name of that radio broadcast that caused mass hysteria, you know, right around the times when the alien/ufo issue became a mainstream and then widely reported concept??

So why pick on UFO enthusiasts? Completely different issue. It’s like picking on Bingo players for the travesty of American Soccer.

You’re thinking of War of the Worlds, and the level of panic was largely exaggerated, though locally it was pretty weird… Could never happen with today’s environment. Back then, you trusted what you heard on the radio and TV…nobody does anymore.

Nothing but obscure photos and allegid accounts in an era when everyone wants 15 minutes of fame and to be on TV

Ahh, but you can’t simply dismiss the cases, folks, vids, photos, etc. that existed BEFORE such an environment. Look at Betty Hill. She didn’t want to go public. Another did for her, so she came out just to set the record straight. This one-size-fits-all brush won’t work for every case, and there are LOTS of cases where this idea won’t fit.

Originally posted by tezzajw

Originally posted by IgnoranceIsntBlisss
Earth's dont come a dime a dozen.

Please let me know the frequency with which Earth-like planets are distributed within the Milky Way.

Your metaphor implies that planets like Earth are not common, so you must have information that leads you to that conclusion? Please supply me with a link to the research data that you studied to conclude that "Earth's dont come a dime a dozen".

Out of some 50,000 known stars, only 163 are known to be extrasolar to have the potential to have an earth like "goldilocks" setup, and that's ... more speculation. Then the mathematical odds of "earths" grows even weaker as you factor in what types and elements, and finally what stage of the earth/sun in the system.

But giving those 163 actual earths, 163 out of 50,000 is hardly criteria for earths to be a dime a dozen.

[edit on 26-3-2007 by IgnoranceIsntBlisss]

Originally posted by Navieko
You can wait as long as you want, but you see, most people are not naive enough to speculate on something they have absolutely no information of.

It's outlandish to try and speculate on why some animals do some of the weird things they do...but to speculate on beings we've never even seen before is just...

Speculating on a speculation.

Thank you for confirming what I've been trying to say.

Dulcimer:

Actually the celebrity society goes back before the TV era, thanks to none other than Edward Bernay's.
video.google.com...

So UFO's were potentially reported during a Japanese naval/aerial attack on US soil? Hmm. Do you have a direct link to those actual articles or related materials, besides Rense. Like some scans, etc.

Originally posted by Gazrok

Right here….

It’s a loose translation, but the general debunker attitude of “get a life” certainly is seeping out…

Yeah, perhaps I could have used some better wording, but really, if the Titanic is sinking and everyones still in their quarters trying to tune in the radio broadcast they thought they almost picked up instead of trying of to escape, perahaps my words and general attitude is just?

Ok then everyone... why are they here?

Total speculation (on any side)…

I know, it's all speculation. Meanwhile, the U.S. facing collapse or worse, and humanity facing the brink of its own destruction is glarign us right in the face. We have hard enough odds of changing anything liek what I'm talking about, so even if we could prove aliens it's still an issue that we seriously have no hope of controlling... unless perhaps what I'm talking about is a threat of provacation towards them... so therefore focusing on stopping these systems should therefore be a primary concern and objective.

All we can do is look at the evidence…
1. UFO sightings seem to show a preference of proximity to military targets.
2. There is evidence that UFOs interfered with weapons and ships in numerous cases
3. Reported abductions
4. Desire for secrecy and evasion

Thank you, all of your evidence supports the military source hypothesis... including the reported abductions and mind control. MKULTRA, for starters.

Seems that they aren’t looking to invade, and aren’t looking to be friends or helpful…so what’s left? Indifference? Or perhaps just ensuring we stay confined to our little planet…at least until we no longer are the way we are. Who knows? It’s all speculation, but even speculation can be based on reason….

Sure. People should be free to speculate about whatever, or even obsess over American idol and so on. Meanwhile, in regards to the alien topic, many peoples lives are being consumed (even to the point of religious standards/convictions) by something that:
1) all the evidence seems to suggest is an ongoing military disinfo/mind control operation
2)could simpy be from raw paranoia, attention getting
3)is talked about almost daily on TV, meanwhile the real serious here and now threats are completely whitewashed or blacklisted
and so on

So why pick on UFO enthusiasts? Completely different issue. It’s like picking on Bingo players for the travesty of American Soccer.

I'm not here to "pick on" anyone. I'm here to project truth and solid warnings to motivate. And when I see people that I believe that, and the evidence suggests that they're being mislead and diverted (modern propagnda's 2 main aspects) I feel I must act. I see my purpose as redirecting people away from all the diversions and misdirections that keep us sucked into ignorance... which is basically every single thing that can be found on TV.

Ahh, but you can’t simply dismiss the cases, folks, vids, photos, etc. that existed BEFORE such an environment. Look at Betty Hill. She didn’t want to go public. Another did for her, so she came out just to set the record straight. This one-size-fits-all brush won’t work for every case, and there are LOTS of cases where this idea won’t fit.

I'm still wating for those cases. Links and resources please. Preferably not a 12 page discussion, but direct right to the point -here you have it- resources.

Around the year 2000 I'd seen virtually every known UFO imagery, and none of it was too convincing, and still isn't. In those times I actually wanted to believe if anything. There's no debate that countless individuals have intentionally faked scores of UFO images. Entire movies like that Fox deal have been completely fabricated. So the only actual proof on this issue, that I can see, is that people are willing to fake images and documents for attention/quick buck/etc.

Many people might have been having psychotic episodes and so on, or felt a military threat, or many other reasons to not want to come forwar to either tell they world they are/were 'crazy' or actually put themselves on the line. Many cases could have been dreams. Or, they're right to be afraid to come forward as they'd be spilling the beans on actual government sponsered human experimentation... something our government has an unrelated history of.

[edit on 26-3-2007 by IgnoranceIsntBlisss]

Mod Edit: BB Code.

[edit on 26/3/2007 by Mirthful Me]

Originally posted by IgnoranceIsntBlisss

Originally posted by TheStev
Ah the irony. The only truly 'absurd' thing in this thread (as has been pointed out by others) is the OP's belief that any kind of solid conclusion can be reached based on speculative motives of alleged beings.

I'm still waiting for a plausible one...

A plausible what? Speculative motive for these alleged beings? Plausible or not, it's still going to be speculative and therefore no logical conclusion can be reached from it.

So with roughly 100 billion stars in the Milky Way, you're taking a relatively small sample of 50,000. That's a great start to prove your claim.

Still, given your sample of 50000, we currently know that around 160 have extrasolar planets. That doesn't mean that the other stars don't have extrasolar planets. What that means, is at present, we have not been able to detect any others.

Given that all you are doing is speculating about what we are currently able to detect, and you have no absolute data to verify the distribution of Earth-like planets, your claim that they are not 'a dime a dozen' is weak.

Mod Edit: Big Quote – Please Review This Link.

[edit on 26/3/2007 by Mirthful Me]

Actually, I'm not the one claiming (speculating) physical alien beings visit earth, which is what this is all about.

For the alien (experimentation/interest/etc, over imperialism) argument to hold solid, "earth's" would have to be a dime a dozen. So therefore, to hold the speculative argument, one must also speculate that earths are a dime a dozen, which can only be speculated. In both cases verifible empirical evidence simply doenst exist, and the odds so far point against it.

From there. like I said, even those extrasolar systems still face remarkable odds of having earths (simliar element quantities, etc) in earth like states (atmospheres and so on) of evolution. Wasn't the earth allegidly in a rock/volcano like state in the past? In any case, this lowers the odds of there beign harvestable/inhabitable planets.

What I would like to say can be summed up in this statement:

Many people around the world in several countries witness UFO's. The point of this forum is to decipher what they may have saw.

A UFO at the time is just what the acronym stands for... an unidentified flying object. Until it is identified it will remain so. That is the point of this forum, to discuss what the objects may or may not be.

Of course there will always be stories of aliens and stories that may sound bizarre. I believe the members here try their best to debunk stories when they can, and as you can see, we have proven many stories to be hoaxes.

You may not like this forum, but nobody forces anyone to read it.

Talk about the conspiracies you wish to talk about. If you believe something deserves attention, make it happen.


As for me giving you some sort of proof (that you will like) that is difficult. I always ask the person who asks something like this, what would it take?

If someone like Paul Martins crew (former Canadian prime minister) views a "UFO" I believe thats credible.

www.ctv.ca...

So maybe it was a comet. That is the point of this forum. To decipher what the UFO was.

As for proof of visitation, thats not exactly my thing. A good UFO case that could be some sort of craft ( still don't know the occupants ) is the battle of l.a. in my opinion.

Like I said, you can find the material in the Los Angeles Times archive from the correct date.

Images and small scans can be see at various places like this and on ATS:
www.ufocasebook.com...

I'm not here to "convert" people.

Originally posted by IgnoranceIsntBlisss
Actually, I'm not the one claiming (speculating) physical alien beings visit earth, which is what this is all about.

For the alien (experimentation/interest/etc, over imperialism) argument to hold solid, "earth's" would have to be a dime a dozen.

Why would they have to be common? You're speculating upon speculations to try and support your weak position and plain guess work.

In both cases verifible empirical evidence simply doenst exist, and the odds so far point against it.

How can you associate odds related to finding Earth-like planets, when we don't yet have the means to detect them?

Around the year 2000 I'd seen virtually every known UFO imagery, and none of it was too convincing, and still isn't.

Well, guess what, mate, it's the year 2007 now, so you're a good six and a half years behind. Why don't you catch up on seeing 'virtually every known UFO imagery' in the last six and a half years and let us know what you think?

I can state as a fact that in the past six and a half years, more people own cameras, videos and mobile phones. The quality of these cameras has improved in the past six and a half years, so you might be surprised to see some very good quality images that have been shown since the year 2000, or whenever it was when you stopped looking.

Until then, I'd say that your research is lacking and your technical claim relating to the frequency distribution of Earth-like planets is poorly conceived.

I'm sure that there are plenty of planet hunting scientists who would like to ask you how well schooled you are in knowing the abundance of Earth-like planets. You might save them the effort to actually need to look for them and count their frequency. Either that, or they'll laugh at you and your claims.

I'm in the middle on this one.
Unless the aliens are currently enslaving us,killing us and destroying our nations there may be more important things on the line.I do think there is alien life about us,however,it's us humans we should put the majority of our focus on.A much more dire threat and reachable solution lies within ourselves.I don't think we will be making much contact until we can police ourselves.

In any case, this lowers the odds of there beign harvestable/inhabitable planets.

Again you're claiming speculation as fact. How do you know what conditions alien life requires for a planet to be habitable? How do you know what natural elements and minerals alien life seeks to harvest? You say 'harvestable' and 'habitable' like they are universal constants. We've encountered one planet with life and we're going to assume that all life in all planets in all the universe will be the same? Now that's arrogant.

Actually, I'm not the one claiming (speculating) physical alien beings visit earth, which is what this is all about.

No, but none of us are basing a solid conclusion on speculation. Most of us here speculate that aliens are visiting earth. We believe that, but we acknowledge that it's a speculation. You, however, speculate that any aliens would intervene to prevent our technological and military advances - and based on the fact that that hasn't happened, assume that aliens have not visited us. Surely you can see how a conclusion based on an assumption is inherently flawed?

[edit on 26-3-2007 by TheStev]

[edit on 26-3-2007 by TheStev]