O'Hare UFO (Lights from Jan, 10 2007)

Originally posted by Lost_Mind

In your professional opinion, what is the likelyhood that aircraft lights will not only mantain a consistant level of brightness on approach for this length of time but also remain in the "pattern" they are in with only slight variations of the 9 minutes?

pretty good. they turn those lights on quite a ways out (sometimes more than 80 miles from the airport), and if he is pointing right at you, it will take quite a while for there to be any relative movement too your point of view. do the math. 250 knots means 5 miles a minute. for arguments sake lets say 60 miles out from your position. that's twelve minutes. and, as mentioned, he doesnt necessarily have to be landing...he could just be transitting the airspace.

those landing lights are quite powerful and can be seen from a hundred miles out, given no obstructions to your view and enough altitude.

The self proclaimed "check" pattern. There were without a doubt instances of the lights dimming then rebrightening but they seemed to me to always rebrighten in nearly the same spot they dimmed from. I think that there were at least 3 of them that simply did not move from their beginning positions at all.

they were vectored (turned) left or right for whatever reason (probably traffic), and then back on course towards you. the lights would dim as they moved away from you, then rebrighten as they turned back. the relative movement left or right would be negligable to your point of view due to the distance the aircraft is from you.

Wouldnt planes flying at 200-250 kts. experience at least a little buffeting on approach at low speeds? Which in turn would cause very remarkable changes in the orientation, hence brightness, of those lights?

again, it depends upon the size of the aircraft and its distance from you. those kinds of variations would only be noticable from very close in...and even then they would be very hard to spot.

In order for these lights to stay as the are those planes would have to be on a rope coming in, with abosolutely zero cross winds or better yet a monorail considering the probable distances we are thinking about here.

think about how precise modern navigation systems have become. they account for things like crosswind. on our scopes, we have lines representing airways in the skies. if we keep them on that airway, most modern aircraft fly the line exactly with no variation at all. we are talking about very precise navigation systems.

Ive been on many planes of many different types (including military) and have always recollected at least a bit of chop on approach, turning or not.

yes, but you are actually in the aircraft. next time youre at the airport make a point of watching the jets land and depart....this is normally where you get the most buffetting, right? i guarantee you that from the ground it will look smooth as silk. it's all about point of view.

The one thing that really irks me about this is that the videographer went out of his way to show what an aircraft from his viewpoint actually looked like, some of these either flying at a much quicker pace in front of the lights in question or behind them - they were without a doubt aircraft and they did appear different as presented through the cameras lenses. You could see the nav lights and uneven bright lights due to the aircraft peforming its usual action simply from the act of flying in air, buffeting etc.

right...he was showing you the other aircraft that were not pointed directly at him, and therefore you could see the relative movement and/or the red and green nav lights. the more i watch this, the more i think the videographer knew damned well that he was photographing aircraft.

Anyway thinking outloud here - feel free to dissimate my ideas....I wont cry, promise....

lol...no worries.

Snafu...

You bring up some very good points. I have this thread saved in my favorites and once you get that footage of a flight pattern for us, please u2u me and I will bump this up so you can post it... then without a reasonable doubt we will all know what is in the video that this thread is about...

I have sent a message to the owner of this video to join in on the discussion here.

He may or may not show, but if he does lets please keep the discussion civil. That doesnt mean not to be critical or not to offer dissenting opinions, just be civil about it.

I think we mostly know where the majority of opinions lie with this particular video, lets just see if there is anything else we can add to the soup.

Thanks!

ok, I just watched this video for the first time and was somewhat dumbfounded. First thing I want to address. HE sees a plane and zooms in to show the difference between it and the stationary lights.... You all seem to ignore this. Two, the lights move from thier original position and then back, a plane in a holding position would not move to the left and then move back to its original spot as seen on the video. I can see a helicopter manuevering like this but not a commercial airliner. 3rd, there were more than one formation of lights, one set appearing only a few hundred feet from the ground. Again if these are PLANES explain to me as to how so many people that live near this airport can't explain what they are seeing.

Also I am sick of people dishing someone for not having a tri pod or better camera. Look we are not all professional photograghers or ufo hunters so get over it. I myself do not own a camera,camcorder or any of that equipment all I have is my trusty binoculars.

Originally posted by Starwatcher
ok, I just watched this video for the first time and was somewhat dumbfounded. First thing I want to address. HE sees a plane and zooms in to show the difference between it and the stationary lights.... You all seem to ignore this. Two, the lights move from thier original position and then back, a plane in a holding position would not move to the left and then move back to its original spot as seen on the video. I can see a helicopter manuevering like this but not a commercial airliner. 3rd, there were more than one formation of lights, one set appearing only a few hundred feet from the ground. Again if these are PLANES explain to me as to how so many people that live near this airport can't explain what they are seeing.

Also I am sick of people dishing someone for not having a tri pod or better camera. Look we are not all professional photograghers or ufo hunters so get over it. I myself do not own a camera,camcorder or any of that equipment all I have is my trusty binoculars.

Ok, I see your points - no need to get upset, we all want to discuss this as openly as we can without making enemies
I do agree that the objects seem to change positions/formations. In previous posts I brought up that all of the lights seem to have the same luminous values... we are still looking into this video - it is interesting to say the least.

I know my mind is not made up about it, because I live near O'Hare and have never seen planes stationary for that long... ever. An air traffic controller who frequents this site agreed to a little experiment - once he can detect this anomaly again (since he believes them to be planes) he will film it for us all to see - and hopefully it will be around 9 minutes of glowing dots that seem to be stationary... but as you have said - the objects do seem to change patterns.

We shall see

Kroms33

Originally posted by kroms33

Originally posted by Starwatcher
ok, I just watched this video for the first time and was somewhat dumbfounded. First thing I want to address. HE sees a plane and zooms in to show the difference between it and the stationary lights.... You all seem to ignore this. Two, the lights move from thier original position and then back, a plane in a holding position would not move to the left and then move back to its original spot as seen on the video. I can see a helicopter manuevering like this but not a commercial airliner. 3rd, there were more than one formation of lights, one set appearing only a few hundred feet from the ground. Again if these are PLANES explain to me as to how so many people that live near this airport can't explain what they are seeing.

Also I am sick of people dishing someone for not having a tri pod or better camera. Look we are not all professional photograghers or ufo hunters so get over it. I myself do not own a camera,camcorder or any of that equipment all I have is my trusty binoculars.

Ok, I see your points - no need to get upset, we all want to discuss this as openly as we can without making enemies

I do agree that the objects seem to change positions/formations. In previous posts I brought up that all of the lights seem to have the same luminous values... we are still looking into this video - it is interesting to say the least.

I know my mind is not made up about it, because I live near O'Hare and have never seen planes stationary for that long... ever. An air traffic controller who frequents this site agreed to a little experiment - once he can detect this anomaly again (since he believes them to be planes) he will film it for us all to see - and hopefully it will be around 9 minutes of glowing dots that seem to be stationary... but as you have said - the objects do seem to change patterns.

We shall see

Kroms33

Not trying to make enemies, I just like the logo of the guys shooting flames lol. However some people are not as well off as others so I kinda get annoyed when people say he/she should have this or that, when filming.

Yeah, I know I am not 'well' off by any means. I don't think that people would logically carry around a tripod with them and I stated that - but I don't think that the person who stated using a 'tripod' meant any harm by it - he was just stating that it would have been nice... the video is pretty clear - although a bit shakey at times...

Originally posted by Starwatcher
ok, I just watched this video for the first time and was somewhat dumbfounded. First thing I want to address. HE sees a plane and zooms in to show the difference between it and the stationary lights.... You all seem to ignore this. Two, the lights move from thier original position and then back, a plane in a holding position would not move to the left and then move back to its original spot as seen on the video. I can see a helicopter manuevering like this but not a commercial airliner. 3rd, there were more than one formation of lights, one set appearing only a few hundred feet from the ground. Again if these are PLANES explain to me as to how so many people that live near this airport can't explain what they are seeing.

Also I am sick of people dishing someone for not having a tri pod or better camera. Look we are not all professional photograghers or ufo hunters so get over it. I myself do not own a camera,camcorder or any of that equipment all I have is my trusty binoculars.

If you spent some time with cameras and trying to understand the images they take, you would realize that geometry makes a big difference, especially at night when most of our usual reference points aren't available. The fact that the videographer stated he was certain the lights were over O'Hare shows his lack of understanding. Even during the day, you can't tell if a fixed point in the sky is 1 mile or 100 miles away unless you know what it is or you have a second point of reference.

A plane that is flying across your line of sight looks completely different from one flying right towards you from a considerable distance.

Doesn't this beg an obvious question? If the videographer was near O'Hare at a time when there a fair bit of incoming traffic, where are all the landing lights? If he had swung over to put THOSE in the frame, I would be much more impressed.

Originally posted by kroms33
Yeah, I know I am not 'well' off by any means. I don't think that people would logically carry around a tripod with them and I stated that - but I don't think that the person who stated using a 'tripod' meant any harm by it - he was just stating that it would have been nice... the video is pretty clear - although a bit shakey at times...

Took the words right outta my mouth. No offense intended.....

And for the record this particular video is exemplary compared to most.....man has a steadier than usual hand. I think that the best of us would shake the crap out of an extremely digitally zoomed image. A tripod for sure would have been nice tho....

My point was that if I had by chance had an opportunity to film something like this and saw that the resultant video was sub par, the first thing I would do would be to get something to steady my shot (within my means) in case another chance came along.....

It just seems that of all the gazillions of videos out there re: UFOs not many have thought of something to steady the shot with. I mean a tree or a car roof - something. Sure would make analyzing these a tad easier.

Originally posted by Lost_Mind

And for the record this particular video is exemplary compared to most.....man has a steadier than usual hand. I think that the best of us would shake the crap out of an extremely digitally zoomed image. A tripod for sure would have been nice tho....

man, youre not kidding. i tried to capture some of the inbound jets to dulles on the way home tonight while my wife was driving. i got so frustrated that i finally had her stop the car in an open area....i still couldnt keep the camera steady enough to keep the guys way out at sixty to eighty miles in the picture (which is what i need to satisfy the time requirements of the supposed ufo video), and the auto-focus was scanning in and out, which caused me to lose the targets several times. definitely gonna need a tripod or some other steadying device before i try again, and figure out how to focus manually.

in short, this is going to be more of a project than i originally thought. not because it's hard to get similar shots, but because i am having to learn how to get those shots.


[edit on 3/13/07 by snafu7700]

snafu7700,

I am not going to jump up and down yet!!! But that is kinda what draws me back to that video again and again - I mean perhaps you are right about them being planes, but I live around O'Hare and have never seen incoming or outgoing craft behave in that nature especially for that length of time. I would dismiss it if it was 3-4 minutes, perhaps even only 5 - but 9 minutes almost 10?

It's just very odd is all.

Originally posted by snafu7700
i still couldnt keep the camera steady enough to keep the guys way out at sixty to eighty miles in the picture (which is what i need to satisfy the time requirements of the supposed ufo video), and the auto-focus was scanning in and out, which caused me to lose the targets several times.

SNAFU - just a little devils advocate here. If it is so difficult to zoom in and shoot objects 60-80 miles away for you, would that seem to indicate the if the original shooters lights might have been significantly closer, hence much easier to focus on and keep steady? Say the 7-8 miles he has been claiming?

Of course having said this I cant remember him saying anywhere what he may have steadied his shot with if anything. Maybe he used his car roof or something similar. But he did seem to make apologies for the shoddy taping on YouTube a few times.... I really do wish he could come in here and discuss this directly.

Coming to a site like this to lay yourself on the line isnt the easiest thing in the world to do but I do hope changes his mind - even to simply jump in and do a one post cover all Q's entry would help a bit.

Once again it is late and crap is falling out of my head....

Originally posted by Lost_Mind

SNAFU - just a little devils advocate here. If it is so difficult to zoom in and shoot objects 60-80 miles away for you, would that seem to indicate the if the original shooters lights might have been significantly closer, hence much easier to focus on and keep steady? Say the 7-8 miles he has been claiming?

not really. the light will appear the same regardless....maybe just a little weaker, but negligably. there is no way to tell from his video how far away he is from the lights, but considering the lack of apparant movement i'd say they were at least that....60 to 80 miles away from him....regardless of how close he claims to have been to the airport.

the problem is not with the lights themselves, but with my inexperience with a camera. i'll get it figured out.

K- sounds good to me. I'll quit bugging ya long enough (lie) to polish your vid skillz and see what you come up with. I would try to do something similar here at TYS but our approaches are nowhere near long enough to make a comparison. I think the best I could do here is maybe 20 miles and that may even be stretching it.

I seem to remember tactical turning in aircraft at 8-10 miles out back in the 80's but that may have changed a bit since then due to traffic increases, 9-11 and who knows what else. I never had full control of inbound - I was stuck with surveillance.

Snafu - check out this thread:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

These lights are VERY similar, no?

the computers at work arent letting me download the vid...i'll try later from home.

Hi There,
I'm new to the boards, but I wanted to share a few things...so if I seem undereducated, please don't be too critical.
I live very close to O'Hare myself, and have seen strange things also. I do remember seeing this UFO back in Jaunary, as well. Wasn't sure what it could possibly have been, all I knew was that it surely was not a plane, whether it was coming in for landing or taking off or what have you. It looked to me like your typical flying saucer-ish shaped craft with a few lights, also in a saucer shape. I saw it more toward the evening, and until I visited this site, I had no idea that anyone else had seen such a thing. Nor did I know, and still have no idea of exactly what or when anyone was seeing this thing. Now, all I know is that I wasn't just seeing things.
My husband, back in the 90's, was heavily involved in UNoApe, and he and a lot of his part of the organization were busted and shut down by some sort of government officials, he believes, because they'd uncovered something 'top-secret', although we weren't together at the time, and I don't know very much about it. I will have to ask him more about this to be able to post more about what he remembers, because after seeing something else disturbing just the other night, I did a search for UNoApe, and the name came up in these boards, so I figured I'd start here. Truth is, I'm always seeing strange lights, and I have no idea really what they are. They don't really look like planes to me, and they don't move like planes. I go camping a little further south of Chicago, and I see them down there also, where the sky is much clearer and darker at night. Once, the 'craft' with the lights seemed to follow me, shooting back and forth as it also seemed to come closer, and it scared me so badly that I promised myself I'd never look to the sky again.
I'm skeptical at best, but intrigued, amazed and frustrated at the same time, because I really don't know what I'm looking at. Anyone else that lives near here, please let me know if I'm the only one seeing these things all the time or if I'm just crazy. When I have more info from my hubby on UNoApe, I'll repost. Thanks!

Originally posted by wifeofairius
Truth is, I'm always seeing strange lights, and I have no idea really what they are. They don't really look like planes to me, and they don't move like planes. I go camping a little further south of Chicago, and I see them down there also, where the sky is much clearer and darker at night. Once, the 'craft' with the lights seemed to follow me, shooting back and forth as it also seemed to come closer, and it scared me so badly that I promised myself I'd never look to the sky again.

Welcome to ATS and thank you for sharing your experience.

If you see these things frequently could you try and take some pictures or even perhaps get it on video?