Why , When , and How !?!?!?! (Please Need Everyone Involved for This One)

I think I'm probably best described as a Deist or maybe a Theist. I believe in G-d because I find that I cannot fail to believe that there is a G-d although I'm not sure that singular is the correct way to refer to my notion of G-d. I can accept that my G-d may be something infinitely plural.

I was raised Southern Baptist but I do not accept the divinity of any human or human-appearing being that has ever visited Earth.

I also don't think of G-d as being in any way interested in religions or worship or prayers (though I sometimes do pray - why? I don't really know.) I'm pretty sure G-d sees no sin other than falsehood and the harming of another creature.

The Bible (and all other scriptures) are great books that have wonderful lessons about how we should treat each other and our planet but I don't believe that G-d had any direct hand in the writing of any of them. I don't believe in any of the "prophesies" in any way, shape, or form.

I find some confort and peace in attending religious ceremonies (I prefer Judaism of the ones I've experienced) but I think the feeling comes from the bonding with the other people around me at the time rather than from any divine source.

I am TOTALLY fascinated with religions of all kinds! I love the folklore and the study of the impacts of religion on history and the modern world. But, my interest in religious studies is purely historical, socialogical, psychological, and anthropological. It helps me to be able to relate to my fellow humans when I can understand something about their belief systems.

I never try to convert any one to my way of thinking and I do NOT appreciate any person trying, not matter how wonderful are their intentions, to convince me that I should believe any other way. Most proselytizing is mostly a well-meant and generally loving form of arrogance. I try to be nice about it unless the person is pushy or tries to "prove me wrong" and then I may exhibit a stronger and more forceful response so that they will just stop. Still, I respect each person's right to believe as they choose - I expect the same courtesy in return.

Good thread! Nice to get it out there.

i'm not religious but i do belive in a bigger picture.

i have my own personal concept and love for "god".
i have my own thoughts and ideas on what god , jesus would want
from us as humans . and i honestly believe god has a great sense of humor .

Well, I am a Theran-agnostic.
Theranism is the name of an ideology I've come up with over time.


A little history first though.

I was raised Christian, though without any real emphasis on religion.
At around 11-12, I started thinking about what I believed, at that time
I started entertaining the idea of some of the old gods from the ancient
polytheistic religions. I toyed with that for a few months.
After that I just did'nt think about it for awhile, though I was tending to
be more Atheistic.
Around 13-14 I started thinking about it I started looking at Buddhism
and Atheism, and eventually became a Buddhist-Atheist.
Whn I was 17 I started thinking about things more, and expanding upon
ideas I'd thought of the past few years, and eventually created Thera-
nism.
I have been Theran-Agnostic since than.


Basically I believe that Theranism is possible.
Theranism basically states that all things are natural, and is based in
Science, and that humans evolved through natural processes.
Basically it does not teach that there is a deity or anything like that.
When one dies there B-N.E.M (Bio-Neural Energy Matric) is formed, the
B-N.E.M is created when the bodies Electrical, ElectroMagnetic and
(possibly) Psionic/other energy field coalesce.
Consciousness is than transfered into that, and you continue existing
as a non-corporeal energy being.

[edit on 3/1/2007 by iori_komei]

Me personally was raised to believe in God, and never questioned it. As i grew though i became very inquisative about alot, and the hunger for more information never ended. Something in me with God just didnt sit right. Eventually i came to the conclusion its only logical that God dosent exist. The main point being is that millions of children and raised under thousands of beliefes, and they can not all be right. If God existed he would have to punish these children and grown people for no fault of there own, just because they didnt believe in the one correct God. "Faith" is just a very conveniont way to lure you in without any need to provide proof. I really only think logically and outside the box, and thats my own personal decision, dont know if im right or wrong.

Also i dont believe in fate or destiny, that is straight up bs. Every action is a cause of its own effect all independent of eachother. If i found out somehow i didnt have a choice in life, i would find it utterly pointless to live.

[edit on 2-3-2007 by krackedkid]

Originally posted by thisguyrighthere
I think those who understand god the best are the slaves. The slaves brought to America or the current slaves in Africa. I think they understand why god is important. Its important to free the spirit and inspire courage. Without god there would never be revolt or revolution because mans law would be absolute. Sure, there would be revolts but not real revolts. Just replacing one form of mans law with another.

And that is the reason we gave them Christianity. A slave who feels he is more likely to be rewarded in Heaven for a lifetime of toil is more likely to be quiet and work harder.
Ever heard the hymn "The rich man in his castle, The poor man at his gate, God made them, high or lowly, And ordered their estate."
Christianity told slaves that the life they lived had been conceived by God, and to do anything to try and change this is to go against God's wishes. And I'm sure that slaves, who were terrified of upsetting their owners, were even more terrified of upsetting a being of unimaginable power.

Theres a reason the Communists, the Nazis and others wanted to limit, destroy or corpratize faith. They had to make it a product of man. They had to make it falible and corruptable to break it. The organized churches, the power structures and the politics is all designed to be subversive to real faith, real understanding of a higher power and real freedom.

The reason Communist countries usually outlawed religion is because Communism is based on the work of Karl Marx, who famously quoted "Religion is the opiate of the masses". The upper class create religion in order to stop the workers, who outnumber the upper class and provide the means of production, rising up and overthrowing the capitalists. Communists remove religion because in Communistic societies, there are no upper and lower classes, there's only the people. And with no class differences, there is no need for religion.

My views on religion are pretty clear. I think it is a tool of society which is used to keep people in their place. Originally it stopped women from being equal to white men, then coloured people, and now it is used to keep the poor content while the rich spend thousands of pounds on helicopter rides.
I am not denying there is something powerful out there, but I do not think it is sentient, and I do not think it should be worshipped.

My views on religion were heavily shaken after reading a book by Kurt Vonnegut titled The Sirens of Titan.
In it a man creates a religion called "The Church of God the Utterly Indifferent". The basic gist of this religion is summed up in this prayer from the book...

O Lord Most High, Creator of the Cosmos, Spinner of Galaxies, Soul of Electromagnetic Waves, Inhaler and Exhaler of Inconceivable Volumes of Vacuum, Spitter of Fire and Rock, Trifler with Millennia - what could we do for Thee that Thou couldst not do for Thyself one octillion times better? Nothing. What could we say or do that could possibly interest Thee? Nothing.

Basically, it questions why God would need someone to worship him. He is omnipotent. If he needed something how could we possibly even hope to provide a being that can do anything?
My view on God is that if he is there, that's cool. If not, that's cool too. He really doesn't need me, and I don't need him. What is there that I could ever do to make God happy? Nothing he couldn't do himself "one octillion times better".

Originally posted by krackedkid

Also i dont believe in fate or destiny, that is straight up bs. Every action is a cause of its own effect all independent of eachother. If i found out somehow i didnt have a choice in life, i would find it utterly pointless to live.

[edit on 2-3-2007 by krackedkid]

see, thats another thing for in my mind...if god knows everything you'll ever do from the time youre born...kind of takes free will out of it no?

i mean, if he knows im going to kill someone from the time im born and lets me do it anyway...can i really be held accountable to him for it? how is that a sin? can i be punished for doing something i was predestined to do?

makes ya wonder

Originally posted by Damocles

Originally posted by krackedkid

Also i dont believe in fate or destiny, that is straight up bs. Every action is a cause of its own effect all independent of eachother. If i found out somehow i didnt have a choice in life, i would find it utterly pointless to live.

[edit on 2-3-2007 by krackedkid]

see, thats another thing for in my mind...if god knows everything you'll ever do from the time youre born...kind of takes free will out of it no?

i mean, if he knows im going to kill someone from the time im born and lets me do it anyway...can i really be held accountable to him for it? how is that a sin? can i be punished for doing something i was predestined to do?

makes ya wonder

well, G-d invented time and therefore has to be beyond it. so obviously he is going to know what happens. How does his knowing what choices you are going to make in any way detract from your free will? he didnt choose it for you, you did. Its not his job to stop you from commiting a sin, that is the whole point, you have to choose not to do it.

Its kind of like, say you have a teenager, you KNOW at some point they are going to disobey you. Do you watch thier every move and correct them before they have a chance to understand why is is wrong? No. you have to allow them to make some mistakes or they will not grow up to understand that there are consequences in life. Same thing with G-d and us only on a larger scale.

Though raised under the Church of England banner (Is CofE a religion?), i am not religious and I do not believe in God or a God/s.

If I were to 'follow' anything, it would probably be something similar to what the American Indians practice.

Oh, I'm the dreaded Ex-Catholic.

The first half of my schooling was at Catholic schools, then I moved to a public school... suddenly, bizarrely, the teachers were nicer. No more whacks with the cane. In their lack of religion, they seemed to treat their students with a good deal more kindness and closeness.

Later in High School, I had a close friend who was deep into his religion. Went to charismatic masses, Speaking In Tongues, all that kind of stuff. He'd tell me all the "Miracles" he had seen, and I started to think.... This is Nuts. Weird, Creepy, Insane. Is this what I believe in? Why would a God reveal Himself in such a freakshow?
So, his religious enthusiasm destroyed mine.

So now, I just believe that Things Are Just What They Are.
If Gods and Spirits and Devils are battling it out up in the Heavens, then fine, good, let them do what they do. Just as Arabs and Jews and Americans play their games in the Middle East... I cannot affect it, I cannot determine the Truth amongst all the propaganda, and even if I could, well, it doesn't matter much anyways.

It Is What It Is.
I will live my life, try not to do too much harm, try to be good to those that I care about. And then my time will be done and I will die. And if the Gods are not satisfied with that, that's their problem.


The Bible? Are you serious? A schizophrenic book, of a God of Love and Hate and Mercy and Ruthlessness. However the Universe is constructed, it aint according to what is said in that book.

Originally posted by kokoro
[
well, G-d invented time and therefore has to be beyond it. so obviously he is going to know what happens. How does his knowing what choices you are going to make in any way detract from your free will? he didnt choose it for you, you did. Its not his job to stop you from commiting a sin, that is the whole point, you have to choose not to do it.

Its kind of like, say you have a teenager, you KNOW at some point they are going to disobey you. Do you watch thier every move and correct them before they have a chance to understand why is is wrong? No. you have to allow them to make some mistakes or they will not grow up to understand that there are consequences in life. Same thing with G-d and us only on a larger scale.

no im referring more to those that would claim god knows every single step im going to take when im going to take it how im going to take it what im going to think and when and how and so forth before im ever born.

if you and i are in a car and you say take me somewhere, anywhere, its up to YOU, suprise me. but god knows where im going to take you and by which route...different thing then yeah?

im talking more about predestiny or fate than anything else. if im predestined to kill someone how can i be held accountable. if god knows im going to kill someone and gods never wrong...im kind of buggered yeah?

so really theres two options.
A) god knows everything everyoen will ever do and is omnipotent.

or

B) we're given free will and god has no idea what we're going to do one minute to the next.

ill take B personally, id rather live in a universe where god may know what we do as we do it but has no clue what im going to eat for breakfast tomorrow. at least i still have a truely free will

besides if god knew up front i was going to get sick...he and i have to have a long freakin talk. if my dr's dont help me soon that talks not too far off.

woops double post

[edit on 5-3-2007 by Damocles]

Age: 21...22 on the 12th
Height: 5'7"
Weight: 150

I'd like to think of my self as highly intelligent, much of my close family, friends, and co-workers regard me as being highly intelligent. I have a great sense of humor, and understand most everyone. Being highly empathetic, I can blend in almost any situation, call it a gift, I call it a curse. I understand people's thoughts and can usually read people very well. Sometimes I'd like to think I had a gift for this, but I know I do not. When I was younger, I used to be faithful to relgion. Yet, as most everyone has seen, you tend to drift away when the church turns its haughty back against you.

I've done well for myself. An accomplished entreprenuer, accomplished meaning that I do make money off of my idea, I have debt as most any person in the world does and I have a full-time job/co-op. I attend school full-time, but since I'm an IT major, I need field experience, so I sit here and type to you because I can write automation programs, text recognition programs, and pseudo-autonamous programs. I write programs to do the work for me.

I don't think I have ever been abducted before, yet I feel strongly that there is another lifeform out there. When I was younger I used to hypothesize that "Grays" were actually human beings from the future who were trying to warn us of impending doom. Their apperance was due to evolution and forced evolution (radiation acting upon cells causing mutations).

I have a girlfriend, she's a girl so you can't say everything is perfect there, they get to change their minds all the time...guys can't...or so I've been told many times by many women. I have an extreme ability to learn. I don't really have to pay attention, I just absorb the information. Sometimes though, fact meldsd with fiction and I need to separate the two.

I practice Ishin-Ryu Karate, not because I'm badass, but because it lets me vent my frustrations of the world. It helps me focus on the task at hand. I don't due drugs and occasionally drink.

I love money, and myself, and my girlfriend. I'm altruistic by all means and I try to impress everyone with kind deeds...I think I am trying to impress myself.

As far as the supernatural are concerned, I believe in an afterlife...I believe in a higher power. I should be dead now, but I've been spared with little or no scarring. I've almost drown on multiple occasions. I've had severe head trauma, with no lasting after effects. I ate an entire bottle of Tylenol when I was about 2. Anyhow, I'm lucky...and so are any of us...to be alive and well. Some aren't so lucky....anyhow, I'm getting my first cup of coffee today, sorry for trailing off like this...I could write a book....

I have come to believe that there is peace and security in beliefs.
Personal beliefs, personal security. With a touch of inner peace. Even non-
believing is a form of believing, is it not? Probably the most interesting
thing I've noticed is that there's something sincere and beautiful in every
religion, and that it's okay to take a little from here and a little from there
and adopt it as yours. Maybe it's a giant puzzle and everyone has some-
thing to offer. I personally believe that spirituality longs for oneness with
the universe. If there is a God, he must be quite busy. Maybe he sent you
or me in his stead. Is it okay to be different? Yes, it is okay, for everyone
to be different. From the spirit of the American Indian, to the spirit of the
Star-Trek wannabes, it's all "us". What a great world we live in. Let's not
let it go to ruin. Maybe that's why some of us wait. Watch and wait, maybe
to be called.

First off, kudos for this topic...it's a good one...

Now for my own beliefs....

see mrwupy's post....seems like we would get along fine.....

About the passage about seeing your true reflection in others around you...This is sooooo true..

I have often made the statement to others that: "We are often taught to look at ourselves in the mirror, but even the mirror distorts the truth."

As you know, a mirror reverses the image it reflects....but mankind is so drawn to mirrors anyways, most of us just get used to it...

I use this as a parable of my own...that nobody or nothing can reflect your true image, other than those around you....

As for where my path to knowledge started, I couldn't really narrow it down to one single thing really...

I was raised as a Free Will Baptist in the South.....My mom is a very religous, by the book, woman....although, I have succeeded in confounding even her beliefs at times, making her question where her own truth lies....no pun intended....

Anyways, I am always willing to learn from others, and share my own experiences...

We are all a part of the one......everything equals one.....

Take the Bible..a guidebook for this existence..much like other religous texts...

God told Moses "I AM WHO I AM"

Jesus said "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." (among many I AM statements made by Jesus)

People are often taught that by that one saying above though, that Jesus was to be worshipped as God...

One of my beliefs, I call the I AM belief, is that Jesus was simply saying that the I AM resided in him. The "through me" part was simply him saying that part of that I AM was in him, and showed itself in the way he lived.

I AM is what we all are. I AM, YOU ARE, WE ARE, HE IS, SHE IS, THEY ARE. All are part of one.

We are to live life loving and helping others. We are supposed to spread the I AM part of us.

Where it gets tripped up, is our basic human need to personify things. We turned that one I AM into worshipping a man made of flesh, and worshipping him. We don't worship what he taught, rather the simple form of a man.

Don't get it twisted. I love Jesus. But at the same time, I also love Mohammed, Buddha, or anyone or anything that is a symbol of love, peace, and prosperity of the human race.

What I will not bow down to, is those that twist and contort the images/messages of these teachers.

Next time you are feeling down about something....think to yourself "I AM" special. "I AM" worthy.

Look through all different religious texts...it's in all of them...

Well for some of you this is goign to a very easy task for those others of us it may not be ... THINK :

If you were god or the God or whatever you believe in .... If you were that person ... Which some of you may not believe that there is such a person ... Just for a moment think about what if there was such a person and he was at the Beginning of time or what not .. and you wanted to create a person ... Easy ... You want to create all these things we have from Plants to animals to Rocks and Formations to Knowledge ... to Other Galaxies and everything .... What happens when you come upon Creating a Living creature with "FREEWILL" ... How do you accomplish such a Feat ??? you being all powerful Omnipotent (ALL KNOWING) ???? Is it even possibly ... Almost like the question can God make a rock big enough where even he can't pick it up ?? I don't intend for this question to be like this question I have ask Secondly ... Because the second question is a CIRCLE QUESTION .... or how else to say it ... ??? I am sure there is a way .... ANYWAYS .... Please any opinions on this would be Helpful ... BTW ... Thanks for all the posts so FAR ....

[edit on 5-3-2007 by Deus_Brandon]

[edit on 5-3-2007 by Deus_Brandon]

I would give them control over their body, and the ability to shape their own thoughts independent of me.

How? I don't know how you do that lol.

And how is it entirely free will, when what we are is going to affect what we "will." I think this is what you are getting at?

It's a good question, going to have me thinkin about free will now.

In short I think the point is that we have the freedom of choice, we can always decide what actions we will take. Even if we aren't aware of all the possibilities. That would be omnipresence... But we do have freedom of choice. There's a theory for ya.

So what you are saying is that God made man in his image ... But just like our image is different when we look in the mirror we are very opposite of GOD ??? For the simple fact we don't know the "CONSEQUENCES" of our choices but to a point. You might think whooping your child is good and then again you might think whooping your child is not a good thing. On one hand you have the children that grow up SPOILED ROTTEN and disobediant because they have no Authorative figure in thier lifes. Then you have the children that are abused and end up being abusive to thier children ... or Possibly taking thier lifes ... But you can't know this ... or can you ????? Did god instill a KNOWING with his Freewill ??? To me he would have had to for this to work out ...

If your truly interested...you can start by reading the Judaic/Christian portion of my ATS blog.

Religion is a pointer...many people get lost in 'doctrine' and never find their way out.

Peace

dAlen

Hey bro ... can you give me a link ... I looked but couldn't find it ... It must not be titles Judaism/Christian ... or anythign remotely liek that ... Or I may have just missed it .. Very interested please link me thanks ...

Originally posted by dAlen
If your truly interested...you can start by reading the Judaic/Christian portion of my ATS blog.

Religion is a pointer...many people get lost in 'doctrine' and never find their way out.

Peace

dAlen