Escape to the Living Moon

• Moon's escaping gasses expose fresh surface Spaceflight
• Moon Burps Reveal Volcanic Activity Space

China has projected to have manned mission to moon in 2010, while the US is expected to return to the moon in 2018. This recent volcanic discovery makes me wonder what else is occuring on the Moon that we are not being made aware of and why the rush towards lunar exploration after a 35 year hiatus?

Could it be that scientists and leaders foresee the Moon as the only viable option for humanity's survival, since Earth may no longer support life due to a nuclear wars, biological wars, resource depletion, super volcanos, environmental degradation, and/or ecological collapse?

• China Sets to Land on Moon by 2010 People's Daily
• NASA to Unveil Plans to Send 4 Astronauts to Moon in 2018 Space

• Stephen Hawking: Earth Could Become Like Venus LiveScience
• Is There Water on the Moon? Universe Today

The moon would make a piss-poor home for anything, especially people. No atmosphere, toxic moon dust, no plants or animals.

Your own source says that the outgassing is probably about 2 million years old:

The unusual sharpness of the features first called Schultz's attention to the area. "Something that razor-sharp shouldn't stay around long. It ought to be destroyed within 50 million years," said Schulz. On Earth, wind and water quickly wear down freshly exposed surface features. On the airless moon, constant bombardment with tiny space debris accomplishes a similar result. By comparing the fine-scale surface features within the Ina structure to other areas on the moon with known ages, the team was able to place its age at closer to 2 million years.

And China isn't sending a man to the moon in 2010. They're sending a robotic probe, which is about all that their current family of launchers is capable of sending to the moon.

Originally posted by PhloydPhan
The moon would make a piss-poor home for anything, especially people.

I recall they once said Columbus would fall off the ends of Earth and death awaits all those who dare sail too far West.

My questioning was more in lines of living within the safety of a moon base versus dying off on an Earth that is being ravaged by thermonuclear wars or a similiar fate. So the purpose of the thread was to discuss reasoning behind the increased levels of lunar exploration and newly discovered lunar phenomena.

Can add India to the lunar race:
Indian scientists to discuss manned mission to moon

Originally posted by PhloydPhan
Your own source says that the outgassing is probably about 2 million years old:

You failed to see the whole picture. Ina would explain recent amatuer observations and to emphasize further research is needed. The past hypothesis has now been proven wrong and shows we still lack data.

"Over the years," he adds, "amateur astronomers have reported puffs or flashes of light coming from the Moon's surface." While many professional astronomers insisted the moon was inactive, the amateur sightings kept open a window of doubt. Schultz thinks it's time to start looking in earnest: "A coordinated observation campaign, including both professional and amateur astronomers, would be one way to build additional evidence for activity. A gas release itself would not be visible for more than a second or so, but the dust it kicked up might stay suspended for 30 seconds. With modern alert networks, that's long enough to move a professional telescope into position to see what's happening."

Originally posted by PhloydPhan
And China isn't sending a man to the moon in 2010. They're sending a robotic probe, which is about all that their current family of launchers is capable of sending to the moon.

Considering space and aeronautical data is censored, to make analogies about what China is going to do based on what is made public leans more towards subjective speculation or wishful thinking. What a government says and what a government does can be two entirely different things.

A probe is going up next year:
China moon probe readied for April '07 liftoff
Chang'e program - wiki

Deny or manned moon bases in 2010:
China denies manned Moon mission plans BBC
China plans Moon base for 2010 New Scientist
China Wants Manned Base on the Moon in 2010 Newsmax
China aims to put astronauts on the moon by 2010 Kyodo News

Humanity's continued existance is dependent on our ability to explore, adapt and diversify beyond the limits of a single planet.

I'll take my chances on earth, even after a nuclear war.
Any life on the moon will be completely dependent on a huge government bureaucracy. I'm sorry, but their track record does not inspire confidence.

The moon is what everyone is looking at for a space base because its so close. Even if there is active volcanism on the moon, it doesn't mean that its better for us because of it, that I can see anyway.

The Ina object was from 1-10 million years ago, they are saying, not that there is recent activity (of course, 10ma is recent compared to 3ba).

Gassing was in the past 60 years:

Moon’s surface is alive and gassing
The researchers believe that a relic of this gas may have already been detected by the Apollo missions, which found high levels of radioactive polonium near Ina. This means that radon gas was present in that region in the past 60 years, suggesting that outgassing is an ongoing process.

The volcanic gas could be composed of water vapor, oxygen and hydrogen. Venting and gasing would also indicate the moon still has a molten core which can provide geothermic based electricity.

Lunar Atmosphere
Estimated Composition (particles per cubic cm):
Helium 4 (4He) - 40,000 ; Neon 20 (20Ne) - 40,000 ; Hydrogen (H2) - 35,000
Argon 40 (40Ar) - 30,000 ; Neon 22 (22Ne) - 5,000 ; Argon 36 (36Ar) - 2,000
Methane - 1000 ; Ammonia - 1000 ; Carbon Dioxide (CO2) - 1000
Trace Oxygen (O+), Aluminum (Al+), Silicon (Si+)
Possible Phosphorus (P+), Sodium (Na+), Magnesium (Mg+)

NASA's Ares rockets Heavy lift moon transport



The only valid reason I see in sending manned missions to the moon is in order to colonize it. Another factor could be the elite will live on the moon, so they can wield power with impunity upon Earth. A higher throne would make pushing the red button more likely.



[edit on 11-11-2006 by Regenmacher]

Granted, Regenmacher, I am making assumptions about what China is going to do vis-a-vis Lunar exploration based on information that China has made public. Which, in my opinion, is better than what you're doing: arguing for the existence of a Chinese moon program - and, necessarily, a crash program to develop a heavy-lift booster - that will put a Taikonaut on the moon by 2010 based on that fact that we know nothing about a program with such a timeline.

Also, can you explain to me what possible lunar outgassing has to do with "the elite" leaving Earth and setting up shop in orbit? I think I missed a couple jumps in logic there...

Originally posted by PhloydPhanAlso, can you explain to me what possible lunar outgassing has to do with "the elite" leaving Earth and setting up shop in orbit? I think I missed a couple jumps in logic there...

Follow the money and you'll find the top. This type of story shows there's inconsistencies and fallacies in our current state of lunar knowledge and is geared to renew public interest in an effort increase funding/taxes for lunar exploration, and that will inevitably benefit the ultra rich the most. No Joe six-packs will be buying lunar flight tickets, colonizing the moon or having the option to escape Earth if a crisis arises.

China's economic moonshoot: Back in 2003, no one dreamed China would be the 3rd largest exporter, have the 2nd largest purchasing power parity, own $1 trillion in US dollar reserves and have a $133 billion US trade surplus...surprise, surprise.

China's economic rankings nationmaster.com

China Shakes the World: The Rise of a Hungry Nation
2006 Goldman Sachs book of the year award

A new space race has begun and it's to the moon or bust...

Follow the money and you'll find the top. This type of story shows there's inconsistencies and fallacies in our current state of lunar knowledge and is geared to renew public interest in an effort increase funding/taxes for lunar exploration, and that will inevitably benefit the ultra rich the most. No Joe six-packs will be buying lunar flight tickets, colonizing the moon or having the option to escape Earth if a crisis arises.

If a space elevator were to be built, the cost of access would plummet to hundreds of dollars per pound rather then tens of thousands of dollars per pound and that is after the first one is built. After a second one is built the price will drop even further. The more people who are involved with a Space Industry the faster it will grow and make the rich richer. Such an effort will need a coordinated effort of millions of workers over decades. It will cost Hundreds of Billions of dollars, but will still seem cheap compared to Iraq. Building something is always better for the economy then knocking something down and then rebuilding it. I say it's worth it.

Originally posted by sardion2000
I say it's worth it.

I like the space elevator idea, and puts an optimistic spin on my sour grapes analogy. I agree building outweighs destruction in any endeavor. That and it gives the children something to hope for, rather than fearing the morrow.

Space elevator - Wikipedia

As important as I believe it is, Space Development should really play second fiddle to sustainable economic development and growth. The two aren't mutually exclusive however, because breakthroughs in one area can have a revolutionizing impact on the other. I hope the new Democratic Congress and Senate can see that both area's are of vital importance to the USA if they want to remain competitive in the long run and not be eclipsed by India, China, possibly Japan and the Euros as well.

As for the topic at hand, the Moon isn't much of an escape for Humanity, only Mars is suitable for that. At most, I can see the Moon supporting a Village sized population supporting a mostly automated mining and industrial infrastructure. In the future I think the Moon will be for the roughnecks, mountain men, and hermits.

[edit on 12-11-2006 by sardion2000]

Good find Regen... Very interesting to now hear that they are not only very wrong about Mars but may be so even about the Moon despite it's relative proximity to professional and amateur telescopes that should not have a hard time detecting such geological activity. Next we will start finding the evidence of ancient oceans and fossils no doubt.

Stellar