Saudi gets sentance of 90 lashes for breaking the law

Abandonment of morality!!!!!!

Bit man have you lost your mind dude??? WE PUNISH the guilty, and PROTECT the victim... we do not punish a women who was raped - we never have and never will... Its just not right...


But I do get your point. I just don't agree with it. A women world wide deserves protection from rapists, what ever religion, what ever creed, what ever colour.

Rape is not just a crime, it is an assault on the soul and mind of the victim. It is about power over the victim.. about defileing the victim...

Sheesh, guess ill leave this thread alone now....its making me feel ill the very thought these people think like this........

OK, by our nations standards and our society views of what is right and wrong, is despicable because our laws are not the same.

But by the laws of the country in which the woman was born and raised the law is totally difference from ours.

If she was born in the US she would have the law in her side.

She was born in Saudi and raised with their society.

In a way she knowing the law of her country is found at fault because she knew.

In our society and point of view is despicable.

We are talking of two difference set of societies here.

Still I we should be grateful of our laws and our society respect for woman and sensitivity over crimes like this.

While in Saudi, woman are not independent they are the ownership of their fathers and then their husbands.

And yes the usual punishment is death.

Originally posted by BitRaiser
Bravo has a point...

Too often we impose our moral judgements on others without thinking about their social context. We don't put out the effort to understand that different sociaties have different values. What seems barbaric to us may be something their people hold dear. On the other hand, we are guilty of many things they find appauling (greed, decadence, sexual indeacencey).

The fact that the rapists were punished more severly than the woman shows that they've actually become progressive. A ruling that that would have been unheard of even 10 years ago. She'd be stoned to death and the guys would have walked away.



[edit on 2-11-2006 by BitRaiser]

You nailed it
Its about imposing our morals on somebody else halfway around the world. I think perhaps thats what is meant by the original posters 'gap' comment. I think he means we cant impose our morals and ethics(close the gap), and the implication is that they are somehow lesser people and should be dealt with accordingly.
Im not sure if this is what he meant tho, because since I asked him the thread has been sidetracked into an personal attack on Bravo.
As I said earlier I dont neccesarily agree with the law, but I understand it.

Originally posted by 11Bravo


I have seen people warned for less, I bet nothing happens here.

I'll gladly take two warns if you'll take your one. Because me seeing you as a moron wouldn't have happened if you hadn't have come on this thread making statements morally offensive to the majority of the world's population.

So what do you think? You ready to put yourself up for lashings?

[edit on 11-2-2006 by Valhall]

I don't want them coming here and forcing the issue, tho. I'll do my own work to improve MY sociaty, thank-you-very-bloody-much!

Unfortunately they are. A bunch of these radical clerics wanted to setup Shariah Tribunals in Ontario... that didn't go over too well when it hit the news stands. frankly I want our society to boycott Saudi Oil, with the stipulation that you'll get our business back if you make some basic Human Rights reforms. Same with China. I could care less about capitalist reforms. Remember Saudi Arabia is a Kingdom. They have people with Absolute Power there, and the police forces to back them up. This has been fully subsidized by every single person who has bought a drop of Gasoline in the past 30 years. It is partially out responsibility for their capacity to intimidate their progressives into silence. It's our responsibility to remove that stream of money so that those same progressives that DO exist in Saudi Arabia, to start to gain power and make change for themselves. The only support we should lend them is in Information. Nothing more, nothing less. Our culture used to be much like that at one time and I do see it as a Barbaric Institution that is corrupting a very distinct and unique culture.

Our culture was once inspired by theirs many a century ago(Technology and Science wise), let us now try to inspire them with new Idea's.

[edit on 2-11-2006 by sardion2000]

Originally posted by Valhall

Originally posted by 11Bravo


I have seen people warned for less, I bet nothing happens here.

I'll gladly take two warns if you'll take your one. Because me seeing you as a moron wouldn't have happened if you hadn't have come on this thread making statements morally offensive to the majority of the world's population.

So what do you think? You ready to put yourself up for lashings?

[edit on 11-2-2006 by Valhall]

Wow val! no twinkies today or what?
What is 'morally offensive' in stating the plain and simple fact that had she not been in the car she wouldnt have gotten raped? HUH?
I didnt say 'its all her fault', I said 'If she had obeyed the law it wouldnt have happened'
And its not like Im saying she shouldnt have been walking down the street minding her own buisiness. Its not like Im saying its her fault for being a woman. Its not like Im saying anything other than , and maybe this isnt clear enough so I will break it down .
There is a law in a foreign land that says women cant ride in cars with men who arent their husbands. This law was probably passed TO PROTECT WOMEN.
This woman broke the law and rode in a car with men other then her husband.
A direct result of her breaking the law was her rape.

Had she obeyed the law she would have not been raped. Period. Case closed.

Now you call me a moron.....

How long will this abuse continue? Cant we have a civil discussion?

CRAzy double post.
Internet hiccup.







[edit on 2-11-2006 by 11Bravo]

She could have been in a car, in a box with a fox, in a boat with a goat, or naked on a flagpole and not been raped had it not been for some men who decided to commit a violent criminal act against her. It doesn't matter where she was, she was the victim of a violent crime.

the morally offensive nature of your post is that some one is having to take the time to tell you this. Which means, it's remaining pretty disgusting at this time. This isn't about Saudi's culture. This about the statement YOU made. YOU made the statement, the Saudis didn't. YOU said if she hadn't been sitting in a particular car's backseat she wouldn't have been raped. YOU said that.

[edit on 11-2-2006 by Valhall]

So, what happens if she is in a Taxi with a male driver unaccompanied? or is injured and in an Ambulance with a "man"

Originally posted by Valhall
She could have been a car, in a box with a fox, in a boat with a goat, or naked on a flagpole and not been raped had it not been for some men who decided to commit a violent criminal act against her. It doesn't matter where she was, she was the victim of a violent crime.

the morally offensive nature of your post is that some one is having to take the time to tell you this. Which means, it's remaining pretty disgusting at this time. This isn't about Saudi's culture. This about the statement YOU made. YOU made the statement, the Saudis didn't. YOU said if she hadn't been sitting in a particular car's backseat she wouldn't have been raped. YOU said that.

Now you are making up lies val.

Quote me the exact part where I said that.

YOu are a liar.

You are a Liar and have called me a number of offensive names here.

I demand an apology.

Originally posted by Slaine01
So, what happens if she is in a Taxi with a male driver unaccompanied? or is injured and in an Ambulance with a "man"

Or in a burning school trying to get out and not being covered properly and not being aloud out of the burning building. Remember that? It happened this year or last, I forget. Fracking Religious police...

[edit on 2-11-2006 by sardion2000]

Originally posted by 11Bravo
Ummm, what gap are you talking about?

I read you article, it said the woman was expecting a harsher sentence.
it also said 'four Saudis convicted of the rape, sentencing them to prison terms and a total of 2,230 lashes.' Whats that, 555 lashes a peice for the guys?
You title is a bit misleading as it only mentions the womans sentence.

Again I ask what is this 'gap' you speak of?
Do you expect them to think exactly like us and if they dont then what?
Are they 'thought criminals' for not thinking and acting like westerners?

When you explain to me the 'gap', then perhaps we can discuss why you want to 'close' it, because all I see in this article is a different culture attempting to maintain some set of moral standards.
I agree if you are saying it shouldnt be against the law to ride in a car with a man other than your husband, but its not our law, its theirs, and I would think that one of the very reasons for this law was to keep women from being raped.
Had she only obeyed the law she wouldnt have got raped.

Nope Val, I didnt say it here

Bravo is right for the most part, even though it is sad that she is punished at all for being raped in her country law states that she is not supposed to be out with men that are not her husband, brother or father. However she would have still recieved lashings if the person(s) that raped her were from higher social class, all in all I feel that these middle eastern countries are backwards, but it is safer for women to follow the laws in these countries, or better yet try to get the heck out of there. Good insight Bravo, and pleae everyone stop getting on his case about his post, he had a valid point, even though his phrasing seemed to side with these sick Middle Easterns

Originally posted by 11Bravo

Originally posted by InDirectViolation

Originally posted by 11Bravo

Had she only obeyed the law she wouldnt have got raped.

You are one sick and evil person. How could any sane person condone punishing a victim of a violent crime. Excuse me while I go vomit

What? I didnt condone anything.
Is it not a fact that HAD SHE ONLY OBEYED THE LAW she would not have been raped? Is that not a fact?
And show me where I condoned anything.

I didnt say it here either Val.
Eat a twinkie then give me my appology

No, I'm not a liar. *Snip

You said

Had she only obeyed the law she wouldnt have got raped.

What law did she break 11Bravo?

She sat the backseat of a car with a man she wasn't married to.

So...what did you say?

Had she only obeyed the law she wouldnt have got raped.

You said, had she not broken the law she wouldn't have been raped.

YOU said it. You said if she hadn't been sitting in that backseat she wouldn't have been raped.

Embrace your ignorance. If you're going to flaunt it in front of the world wide web, at least embrace it while you're doing it.

(Mod Edit: Personal Insults)

[edit on 2-11-2006 by WyrdeOne]

So what are people outraged about here? Are they outraged because Saudi law requires lashes for women with unrelated men?

Or are people outraged because they think since she was raped that she should be forgiven for breaking Saudi law?

I know in the US at least, if you commit a crime even while a crime is committed against you, you are still responsible for that crime. Right? I don't agree with the law she was tried under, but that's how it works according to the concept of the letter of the law at least.

But damn, why couldn't they brandish that Saudi sword of theirs on the guys who raped her...

[edit on 2-11-2006 by Jamuhn]

The lashing don't bother me. If she wants to live in a society that gives lashes for having male friends, she has the right to. More power to her. She broke the law she has chosen to live under. That's separate from the rape issue.

Originally posted by D4rk Kn1ght
Nope, i think islam and the west are not compatible whilst they still are in the stone age both mentally and emotionally.

There is only one side with that mentality.... And we both know which side that is....

I would also like to remind everyone(again) that at this moment some of our electricity is probably coming indirectly from Saudi Arabia so at this very moment, we are subsidizing this "culture". I don't see it any differently then buying a Blood Diamond frankly. Saudi taught Clerics come over here to preach their extreme version of the Quran, so frankly I think it's high time we start to give them the same treatment, minus the religion and the non-economic bombs of course.

Nope, i think islam and the west are not compatible whilst they still are in the stone age both mentally and emotionally.

It's not an Islamic thing, it's a regional thing. There are still quite a few backward Christian sects out there in the Arab World as well as in Africa. Some of them are quite extreme and almost indistinguishable from the Jihadis except for the fact that they are wearing crosses around their necks instead of the traditional garb and beard.

[edit on 2-11-2006 by sardion2000]

Originally posted by 11Bravo

Originally posted by Valhall

Originally posted by 11Bravo

What? I didnt condone anything.
Is it not a fact that HAD SHE ONLY OBEYED THE LAW she would not have been raped? Is that not a fact?
And show me where I condoned anything.

Here I'll say this to where you can see it

NO it's not a fact, you sick backward knuckle-dragging neanderthal.

I have seen people warned for less, I bet nothing happens here.

No, because you deserve harsher words then those.

You can't take a few harsh words directed at your character (or lack there of) - how about being gang raped?

honestly... I don't know what to even say about what you said... You did in fact say she was in wrong "if only she obeyed the law" Right, women have no say on who the ride in a car with, like that is humane to begin with, then you say because she did not obey the stupid law she ought to have been gang raped.

Who cares if the rapist where given a punishment if they still punish the raped women?

your thought is barbaric, disgusting, disgraceful, backwards and crude.

Simply amazing.