North Korea says "Sanctions = war"

Originally posted by Slap Nuts
The WORLD stands behind us on this one, except maybe Chavz and the Iranian Mullahs.

You overestimate our support. China has already told us to 'go easy' with the sanctions, how do you think they're going to react when our arial bombardment prompts KJI to detonate all of his remaining nuclear material to make sure that the world remembers him. Maybe they'll just build a big dome to protect themselves from the aftermath. And lets not forget that what Russia says, and what Russia does will never be one in the same.

If this US administration would have a TRUE insterest in diplomacy and in settling the tensions between North an South Korea, direct talks would have been made years ago between the US and North Korea. But the US attitude is to isolate and demonize North Korea's regime from the start! I mean where do you wanna go with this???

If the Bush administration and its cronies in Japan would be wise enough and really preoccupied with peace actually, the best thing they could do with Kim Jong Il would be to simply ignore him and let him pay with his toys for a while... the only way that North Korea can be a threat is to give them a reason to go into "war mode". By simply doing nothing, Kim Jong will simply keep on defying the others in his corner for a little time, and then he'll lose his credibility or otherwise just calm down and change his approach.

I don't like what's happening these days... with a bunch of demented fanatics in power in the US, Israel, North Korea, Iran and the EU, we might be close to a real global massacre.

"
Armageddon is here.

Korea has declared intention to use nuclear weapons on the United States.

One of North Korean long range missiles can hit anywhere in the US.

This cannot get more scary:

Full blown war is now imminent.
One false move by President Bush and they are likely to launch a missile at US."

I think this is overreacting a little.
We still dont know whether it was a real nuclear explosion and if it was - it was not very successful. The missile test last week was equally unimpressive.
I also doubt whether they actually have a warhead ready to luanch - this may take another few years just as the US took several years to reduce the size of their nukes.
I'm not saying that we souldnt be worried but this is probably the reaction the little crackpot wants.

Originally posted by Unit541

Originally posted by Slap Nuts
The WORLD stands behind us on this one, except maybe Chavz and the Iranian Mullahs.

You overestimate our support. China has already told us to 'go easy' with the sanctions,... And lets not forget that what Russia says, and what Russia does will never be one in the same.

I agree. If we do decide on military action we should do so under the premise that no other country will help. Part of out problem in Iraq is that we put a coalition before getting the job done, so the world would approve. That worked! I still say we have time, once those NK soldiers get hungry, they won't stick around and lil'Kim can't kill all of them for going AWOL! If we go into NK we should do so alone and then be prepared for China, Japan, and Russia to slap our hand, or worse.

Originally posted by Slap Nuts
Yes, I can, but to use football as an analogy again, you ALWAYS lose players to injury if you want to win the battle. Nothing is free. There will always be losses...

For someone who so willingly touts that he is not pro-war you certainly don't display that.

Originally posted by Slap Nuts
ON THE CONTRARY, if he perfects his DONGGERS and warheads, BYE, BYE LA. So we lose the whole team instead of an offensive lineman. You make the call.

The WORLD stands behind us on this one, except maybe Chavz and the Iranian Mullahs.

There will be a REAL coalition of the willing this time and NK is gonna get stung. BADLY.

LMAO you make me laugh in all sincerity...because it seems to ME that civilian casaulties that occur on FOREIGN land are completely acceptable in your eyes because it's "all a part of making the touchdown", however, when one small portion of the US gets hit by a T-Dong3 such as L.A. and there are obviously civilian casaulties THERE, for 2 countries that (you so appropriately pointed out ealier) are still at war is not only unacceptable BUT it's also END GAME?


It's not ACCEPTABLE anywhere...and mindset's like yours are just as obsurd and dangerous as Kim's, simply because you believe that WE (our civilian lives) are so MUCH more important than anyone elses, so to secure that, we have to obliterate any others if they step out of line and their civilian casaulties are just the proverbial eggs breaking to make the omlette.

While other's may be taking your advice on researching 4th gen fusion (albeit you seem to ignore that while other's may already have that cognizance they dont necessarily come to the conclusion that a release is in any way necessary), yourself, you may want to research the definition of fallout..it isnt always a nuclear cloud.

I dont say this to belittle you, I say this because I'm hoping you'll see how dangerous your thinking could very well be, for ALL civilians of a lot of nations...that as soon as the general population begins to believe that their OWN casaulties are of greater consequence than anyone elses, they are no better than hitler's regime, all over again.


AB1

Originally posted by reaper2
Agreed Edn the only way out is talks, anything else will only inflame the situation further.;

To all who say we need to appease NK with direct talks. OK, the ball's back in your court. Let's say the U.S. agrees to talks. Now, exactly what would we talk to them about? Would we promise more aid in return for a halt in their nuclear weapons programs like previous administrations have tried? Think that will work? Well, keep in mind that while all that previous talking was going on, NK was still building the weapons they claim to be shooting off today. In other words, while the U.S. and others were negotiating in good faith, NK had their own agenda, which was to build nuclear weapons no matter what. As an aside, now Iran seems to also have adopted NK's successful tactic.

So, back to my original question. What's to talk with NK about? And I'll add, since appeasement didn't work before (it historically never does), what makes anyone think it would work this time?

[edit on 10/11/2006 by centurion1211]

Just heard on the news ( no link yet, sorry ) that Japans emergency meeting today resulted in N.K not being able to dock in any Japanese harbours, no visiting N.K. are aloud on Japanese soil ( certain unannounced limitations ) and something else that I missed as I was making a right turn and had to avoid some idiot.

More to come, I'm sure.

Japans first, who will be second.

Originally posted by Echtelion
If this US administration would have a TRUE insterest in diplomacy and in settling the tensions between North an South Korea, direct talks would have been made years ago between the US and North Korea. But the US attitude is to isolate and demonize North Korea's regime from the start! I mean where do you wanna go with this???

We did have direct talks with NK, and we gave them nuclear power, they promised not to develop niuclear weapons with the by products. Where do you want to go with this? You can be outraged but pay attention to history.

If the Bush administration and its cronies in Japan would be wise enough and really preoccupied with peace actually, the best thing they could do with Kim Jong Il would be to simply ignore him and let him pay with his toys for a while... the only way that North Korea can be a threat is to give them a reason to go into "war mode". By simply doing nothing, Kim Jong will simply keep on defying the others in his corner for a little time, and then he'll lose his credibility or otherwise just calm down and change his approach.

Kim has no credibility and he's smart enough to know it. What he has is desperation, very dangerous. I agree we should watch and wait but not for the same reasons you think we should. Also-here comes that history thing again-we are still at war with NK, that war never ended. You can't go into war mode if you have been in it for 50 years.

I don't like what's happening these days... with a bunch of demented fanatics in power in the US, Israel, North Korea, Iran and the EU, we might be close to a real global massacre.

Okay Chicken Little look up, the sky is not falling. Lil'Kim is having a tantrum, the USA will watch and wait and eventually if he doesn't shape up, China or japan will step in, gracefully and take care of the situation.

Originally posted by Slap Nuts
Yes, I can, but to use football as an analogy again, you ALWAYS lose players to injury if you want to win the battle. Nothing is free. There will always be losses... ON THE CONTRARY, if he perfects his DONGGERS and warheads, BYE, BYE LA. So we lose the whole team instead of an offensive lineman. You make the call.

At the risk of appearing rather quaintly British in my appreciation of (American) football I can never escape the impression that this game seems to involve rather a lot of unnecessary posturing, a great deal of seemingly random violence and very little progress up the field of play.

I've got to admit it is a beltingly good analogy for the current position.

no one has said this yet, so here goes..

why did nk test a nuke? because iran is going up for sanctions. why does nk want direct talks? so they can pin us in an unwinnable situation, blame it on us, and "reunite" with the south buy force. but only when we have invaded iran to bog us down. iran iraq and north korea is the axis of evil, remember? we took iraq to cut the trade route through syria to and from iran and north korea. iran is not making bombs. nk is. and nk will sell a bag full of dirty stuff to iran funded asymetrical warriors, or terrorist as they are called today. asymetrical warfare is a war crime by the way.

Originally posted by timeless test

Originally posted by Slap Nuts
Yes, I can, but to use football as an analogy again, you ALWAYS lose players to injury if you want to win the battle. Nothing is free. There will always be losses... ON THE CONTRARY, if he perfects his DONGGERS and warheads, BYE, BYE LA. So we lose the whole team instead of an offensive lineman. You make the call.

At the risk of appearing rather quaintly British in my appreciation of (American) football I can never escape the impression that this game seems to involve rather a lot of unnecessary posturing, a great deal of seemingly random violence and very little progress up the field of play.

I've got to admit it is a beltingly good analogy for the current position.

You haven't watched enough american football then

Let me propose a view. The Korean War ended with a cease-fire, that is all that is holding this mess up. North Korea may have detonated a nuke, or they may have not detonated a nuke. Either way they claim to have sucessfully detonated a nuke, knowing full and well what that meant, regardless of the outcome they provoked the US. Now let me put a spin on it. Everyone seems to have so quickly forgotten the Israel/Hezbollah conflict. Israel is our proxy army, we give them the tech we want them to have and from time to time we need to make sure they are up to speed on how to use it, in the case it becomes a necessity. China is basically the only country who has let NK do what they do. Perhaps this "NK Nuke Test" is really a provocation from China to the US. As we both know the US may be a super power but a 1b+ army is no joke people. Maybe these two superpowers are flexing their muscles towards one another. The US saying look what Israel can do, China saying look what NK can do. Just trying to maybe open some new doors, I could be way off.

Also if you remember in the IS/HZ conflict all anybody did for a month was talk and talk and let the situation escalate more and more. Finally a cease-fire is negotiated, after a month of war. If you look now nothing is really coming about with this current situation. They are just doing a whole lot of talking. The situation seems to be getting worse as time goes on, not improving. Look what NK has been saying.

1. Sanctions are an act of war
2. We're gonna launch a missle if you dont talk with us directly

They leave no other options but direct talks, instead of the US talking and talking with other countries, why don't we just bite the bullet, sit down and at least HEAR what KJII has to say. I mean then at least we can say that we TRIED. Maybe it will work maybe it won't, KJII may have some outrageous requests, or maybe he really is willing to negotiate. I'm sure in the back of his head he knows if he can improve his economy he can improve his military. We could handle that if he gave us the right for full access to all nuclear facilities, and the proper warning systems were in place in NK. So he improves life in hios country from the US, gets some of our outdated military equipment and gets what he wants. At least nobody died and the situation has been handled diplomaticaly. If he abuses the things we give him he knows what the consequence is.

[edit on 11-10-2006 by BluByWho]

U.S. invades small Middle East country, Iraq, because they have weapons of mass destruction - finding none, zip, zero and they looked under every camel and sand dune pretending for weeks that they would find them but nothing.
Then an even smaller Asian country, North Korea, states out loud in front of the whole world they are going to test a weapon of mass destruction and they do it and it is seen by everyone on TV and the big powerful Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld Gov't squeaks out a warning that if they don't stop they will send them another squeaked out warning!
Hoorah for standing up for whats right!

Only the dead see the end of war- Plato
Only the winners see the end of war-PHARAOH1133
The Victorious strategist only seeks battle after the victory has been won.-D.A.D.

Originally posted by Smuh
U.S. invades small Middle East country, Iraq, because they have weapons of mass destruction - finding none, zip, zero and they looked under every camel and sand dune pretending for weeks that they would find them but nothing.
Then an even smaller Asian country, North Korea, states out loud in front of the whole world they are going to test a weapon of mass destruction and they do it and it is seen by everyone on TV and the big powerful Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld Gov't squeaks out a warning that if they don't stop they will send them another squeaked out warning!
Hoorah for standing up for whats right!

Yes indeed. The WMD premise for invading Iraq just lost all remaining credibility. This administrations reaction to NKs verbal claims and the 'mystery' detonation prove that we went to Iraq for Iraq, not to defend a non-proliferation policy. When the masses start to wrap thier heads around that, people will again begin asking why we went to Iraq.

How many lies can the adminstration be caught in the middle of before the populous becomes fed up on a destructive scale.

LOL, perhaps we should start reviewing the Titor files...

we 're still at war with north korea

from wikipedia, (en.wikipedia.org...)

On November 29, 1952, U.S. President-elect Dwight D. Eisenhower fulfilled a campaign promise by going to Korea to find out what could be done to end the conflict. With the UN's acceptance of India's proposal for a Korean armistice, a cease-fire was established on July 27, 1953, by which time the front line was back around the proximity of the 38th parallel, and so a demilitarized zone (DMZ) was established around it, still defended to this day by North Korean troops on one side and South Korean and American troops on the other. The DMZ runs north of the parallel towards the east, and to the south as it travels west. The site of the peace talks, Kaesong, the old capital of Korea, was part of the South before hostilities broke out but is currently a special city of the North. No peace treaty has been signed to date.

a cease-fire is not the end of a war, indeed, according to wikipedia again

en.wikipedia.org...
A ceasefire is a temporary stoppage of a war, or any armed conflict, where each side of the conflict agrees with the other to suspend aggressive actions.

we are still very much at war with north korea

[edit on 11-10-2006 by wondernut]

Originally posted by wondernut
we 're still at war with north korea

As soon as we get those basics down, we can also suggest that we were always at war with Iraq (since gulf war I). Which is correct; Saddam violated a UN cease-fire, so the fire ceased to be ceased, for a better lack of words. And no, "WMD" were not the only provisions of the cease fire.

Kofi wants Bush to talk to N. Korea. Japan wants Bush to take out N. Korea.

After some quick observations, it appears that the American people want some action taken against N. Korea. Yet, our "representative" governments sit on an idle pedestal: let's hurry up and wait.

Breaking news on Sky......John Bolton: US to introduce draft resolution on NK tomorrow.

Should be interesting, of all the good it will do!

CX.

But the US attitude is to isolate and demonize North Korea's regime from the start! I mean where do you wanna go with this???

Let's have Kim Jong Evil stop demonizing the US and South Korea's regimes too.

NK does NOT have missles that can hit ANYWHERE in the US!

Their Nuke test was a dud. Their missle tests on 4th July didnt work very well.

Well I might as well add my opinion on the matter.

I think we should threaten to nuke them, and if they don't obey the inter-
national community, we hit every military base with a few ICBM missiles
and set off a small tactical nuke off 10 miles from Pyonyang (in an unpop-
ulated area).

And it should be noted, although Pyonyang does resemble a modern city,
and has lots of buildings, very few people actually live there.


Also, the North Korean children are reaised to believe Kim Jong Il is a
divine being, and that his father was to.

[edit on 10/11/2006 by iori_komei]