Anti-Christ, end time prophesies, etc

Originally posted by BlackGuardXIII
Well, apparently Herodotus called the area Palestine a couple thousand years ago...and from my experience the people who live in a place are generally called by the same name. So, if they have been calling it Palestine for well over two milleniums, what do you call the people who live there? Lebanese... ?
If my family lived there for 100 generations, I would consider myself a Palestinian. Of course.
BTW, important question....
why do you care anyways?

The name Palestine came from the Philistines.

www.palestinefacts.org...
The name Palestine refers to a region of the eastern Mediterranean coast from the sea to the Jordan valley and from the southern Negev desert to the Galilee lake region in the north. The word itself derives from "Plesheth", a name that appears frequently in the Bible and has come into English as "Philistine". Plesheth, (root palash) was a general term meaning rolling or migratory. This referred to the Philistine's invasion and conquest of the coast from the sea. The Philistines were not Arabs nor even Semites, they were most closely related to the Greeks originating from Asia Minor and Greek localities. They did not speak Arabic. They had no connection, ethnic, linguistic or historical with Arabia or Arabs.


The British chose to call the land they mandated Palestine, and the Arabs picked it up as their nation's supposed ancient name, though they couldn't even pronounce it correctly and turned it into Falastin a fictional entity.

Why do I care? Deny Ignorance..........We live in a world created to keep us from the truth. The whole Palestinian thing is a crock.

It's all about Satan's attemp to wipe the Jew from the face of the earth thereby keeping the thing that God said would happen from happening. FAT CHANCE.

Well, sunmatrix, you must be tickled pink by the current state of affairs what with the Palestinians (for want of a better name), have been getting their butts handed to them on a platter by the Israelis for over 50 years now.
You don't have to worry, you're winning....
good for you.
Palestine was called Palestine 2400 years ago, from what I read.
Why? Because there were no Palestinians there?
I support the Palestinian peoples right to exist. And I also feel that they got the shaft in the forties. And then they got shafted even more. And even now, they are getting it.
Good for you, way to go for your team.
It must make you proud.
PS, you are also winning the media war. It took me about 40 links to find a history of Palestine not written by Israelis. It appears that there are far more Israelis getting their point out there than Palestinians. The concept is odd to me though, where the opposition are the ones telling the Palestinians history to the world. Is that wise?

Originally posted by helen670
Hi dAlen/

"I bet the Christians will be the ones who persecute the true Christians in the end times".

This in my opinion is a very true statement!

Thanks for your post...by your signature it appears you are a Christian.
Nice to see some Christians with an open mind to this matter and not all defensive.
This is a healthy attitude indeed.

Peace

Dalen

Originally posted by dAlen

Originally posted by helen670
Hi dAlen/

"I bet the Christians will be the ones who persecute the true Christians in the end times".

This in my opinion, is a very true statement!

Thanks for your post...by your signature it appears you are a Christian.
Nice to see some Christians with an open mind to this matter and not all defensive.
This is a healthy attitude indeed.

Peace

Dalen

hey Dalen.
I guess if we cannot have an opinion of our own , then we might as well just sit back and take what is dished out to us.
I don't think it ever hurts to voice ones opinion, but we must be careful on how we want it heard.

take care,
helen

Originally posted by denythestatusquo
Oh yes you are both onto something here indeed. What if the real jews were also all those europeans and their kind that went to the new lands and today's jews were but imposters? Where did the lost tribes of Israel go and what have they done?

See in Judaism there is the concept of the mixed multitude, aslo in Christianity...not sure how relevant it is in their minds as it is in Judaism.

For Judaism it basically means no one is sure who the true jew is to begin with...as a rabbi has stated (and been criticized for), only God knows who the true Jew is.

This is a good statement and one that could help cause some of the hatred to die down.
However Zionism likes to keep the flames alive.

Your quote fits in nicely to the topic.
As for the Christians it would make perfect sense in their view of end time events.

The anti-Christ is successful cause the whole world believes his "mixed-multitude" are the jews, while he persecutes the palestenians "the true jews"...thus Bible prophesy is fullfilled and he can decieve most of the Christians and almost the "elect" as they say, if it were possible.
"those with ears let them hear".

Anyway Im not claiming any religion...though I understand both evangelical christianity and orthodox judaism. (the former would do to understand the latter and some of the mess would clarify itself.)

No I am not declaring that all Jews that call themselves jews are mixed multitude...I do however, sugest that the Zionist leaders are anti-jewish. (as we know you dont have to be jew to be a zionist...they try their hardest to make people think jew and zionism is one in the same.
Who knows, one day they may copywrite the term...but it a potatoe will always be a potatoe no matter what you change the name to. So you tell the fruit by its actions...forget names, as names can shift and move according to agenda.

As of now, what is called zionism, stinks...its fruit is rotten.
It would benefit us all if the palestenians and the jewish people to ignore their leaders and drop their hate.

I mentioned Hamas must be part of Zionism...after all they seem be fine, (as they run their mouths) while the mass people are on the edge of a palestenian holocaust (and as they may be partly jewish too, this would make it another jewish holocaust.)
They are trapped like an animal in a cage in Gaza, while Hamas, or whoever runs their mouths.
Now obviously they do not represent the people but someone elses agenda.

Can we say Zionism and NWO are one in the same.
The people are being sacrificed...brother against brother (palestenian against jewish)...stop the hate and zionism will not relate!

Peace

Dalen

Originally posted by BlackGuardXIII
And why wasn't 78% of British Palestine not enough for Israel? They felt compelled to occupy parts of the meagre 22% that was left to the Palestinians. Give it back, I say,

I agree...the thing is, people are very stubborn when it comes to their beliefs.
They would rather kill then have peace.

Let God come and give the land, in peace, to those she/he/it wants to.

Until then people need to let the desert land be, theres nicer places in the world to live.

Peace

Dalen

Originally posted by Sun Matrix
It's all about Satan's attemp to wipe the Jew from the face of the earth thereby keeping the thing that God said would happen from happening. FAT CHANCE.

Here in lies the conspiracy.
If your talking about Satan I can probably safely say your not Jewish, as Satan doesnt really play the same role in Judaism as in Christianity.

So if your a Christian you will know that the anit-christ will try to destroy the Jews, and that he will deceive even the elect if that were possible.

Are you "elect". Can you see clearly enough.

What a better way to destroy the Jew than by changing the label and story a bit and calling them a palestenian. Not much news about Gaza...just Lebenon, Iran.
But those mass of people are in a virtual Ghetto. And some of them are Jewish, and as a rabbi put it, some of them are more jewish then some who claim to be jews. (I say the zionist leaders are prime candidates for satan and his demons if your a christian...if your an alien buff, then they are david Ickes lizard creatures.)

Again, Jews arent even sure if they are jews...as there is the mixed mulitude that went out with them from Egypt. Lets just speculate that some of the "true" jews are now being starved to death in Palestine.

Heres the key...the mass people on both sides (those who are known as palestenians and jews should drop the hatred ignore the propraganda and get along.)

We know the C.I.A. is the "completely illegal agency" and they start wars, etc.
Whose to say the palestenian sucicide bombers arent a bunch of C.I.A. type of brainwashed zombies to get the conflict going.

Time to stop the hate...look clearly....the leaders of palestine can run their mouths further causing torture to their own kind...surely something is wrong with this picture.
Why are they not starving to.. I suppose they are in the zionist club.

Peace

Dalen

Originally posted by Sun Matrix

Originally posted by babloyi
I'm curious, Sun Matrix. What would you call the 'Palestinian' Jews who look exactly like the non-jewish ones (as you say lebanese or arab)? The ones that didn't convert when Islam came around?

Are they Jews? Are they Palestinians? Are the Palestinians Isrealis? Are the Israelis Palestinian? Do the Arabs/Palestinians and the current Jews have the same heritage? Do the Arabs/Palestinians and the original Jews have the same heritage?

Games???????

What do you call a Bostonian Jew that eats pork chops on Friday?

Games? I don't think so. You seem to lay an inordinate amount of importance on semantics. A title for a Bostonian Jew is irrelevant, because Jews did not originate from Boston, while Palestinian Jews (or Jews from the area called Palestine, if you wish) are very likely to have originated from Palestine, or at least lived there for hundreds of generations.

Originally posted by babloyi

Originally posted by Sun Matrix

Originally posted by babloyi
I'm curious, Sun Matrix. What would you call the 'Palestinian' Jews who look exactly like the non-jewish ones (as you say lebanese or arab)? The ones that didn't convert when Islam came around?

Are they Jews? Are they Palestinians? Are the Palestinians Isrealis? Are the Israelis Palestinian? Do the Arabs/Palestinians and the current Jews have the same heritage? Do the Arabs/Palestinians and the original Jews have the same heritage?

Games???????

What do you call a Bostonian Jew that eats pork chops on Friday?

Games? I don't think so. You seem to lay an inordinate amount of importance on semantics. A title for a Bostonian Jew is irrelevant, because Jews did not originate from Boston, while Palestinian Jews (or Jews from the area called Palestine, if you wish) are very likely to have originated from Palestine, or at least lived there for hundreds of generations.

Seems to me the one worried about semantics is you.

The city is now called Jerusalem again. So your question should be what do you call a Jerusalem Jew? The same thing you call a Bostonian Jew. If they change the name of Boston to Picco does it change the answer?

Originally posted by Sun Matrix

It's all about Satan's attemp to wipe the Jew from the face of the earth thereby keeping the thing that God said would happen from happening. FAT CHANCE.

This is the problem faced when trying to solve real life issues when looking through a religious lens. My friend, have you ever been to Palestine. Have you seen the REAL LIFE suffering of ALL the people that live there. If the issue was approached in a secular and logical manner, we could end the senseless bloodshed that goes on in that region or at least curb it. Instead, people are frightened to take real action cling to the remnants of religion.

Originally posted by Nihilist FiendThis is the problem faced when trying to solve real life issues when looking through a religious lens. My friend, have you ever been to Palestine. Have you seen the REAL LIFE suffering of ALL the people that live there. If the issue was approached in a secular and logical manner, we could end the senseless bloodshed that goes on in that region or at least curb it. Instead, people are frightened to take real action cling to the remnants of religion.

See, I totally agree with you here.
However I understand (not agree) with how evangelical christians and other religious people look at things enough to understand they wont change their view overnight, and your argument wont hold up for them.

This is the conspiracy indeed...religion itself so it seems.
Beyond this it has many folds of lies and deceptions to keep people in the folds of "ignorance". (i use that term to apply to the atrocities happening in the name of "good"/religion.

If you can somehow point how the inconsitensies within their thought parameter, such as who is a true Jew, then you might have a chance. But you really have to understand both grounds turf and work within that. Even then it takes time, if at all.

Again, for the Christian, take a look at what is going on in Gaza and pretend that instead of palestenians they are called Jews...how would you view the situation (this scenerio is more likely to be true then you realize.) You would say, oh its the anti-christ.

A bit of humilty is needed to understand (by the evangelical christian) that they are not immune to the antichrist and that they should try to understand what is happening so that they to arent "decieved by him". Its as many appear to think he will come out with a name tag saying anti-christ.

Again, Im not a religious person...but what is happening in Gaza is definitely against the teachings of the Evangelicals son of God.

Peace

Dalen

The "palestininans" aren't Jews, they are a bunch of displaced arabs from the 1948 Arab Isreali war that were not allowed back into their arab countries. This was a conspiracy by the arab governments at the time. This way they had a counter to Isreal called "palastine". The Isreali's even offered most of these people citizenshp (hence why there are currently arab isreali's). But instead chose to stay in "refugee camps". The have never been able to go back home, most are Jordanian, because the Arab governments wanted to fabricate a problem.

In addition, while not all "evangelicals" ( I put that in quotes, because I have found most people, including many Christians don't know what the word really means ) hold to the exact same positions, there has been an awakaning in the past 30-40 years on the Jews being God's chosen people, and most of the protestant churches have dropped any hints of anti semetism in support of Isreal.

I say this politely and with all due respect, but most of this thread is based on personal speculation based on incorrect notions.

Read some history and study the area.

Originally posted by Sr Wing Commander
In addition, while not all "evangelicals" ( I put that in quotes, because I have found most people, including many Christians don't know what the word really means ) hold to the exact same positions, there has been an awakaning in the past 30-40 years on the Jews being God's chosen people, and most of the protestant churches have dropped any hints of anti semetism in support of Isreal.

I say this politely and with all due respect, but most of this thread is based on personal speculation based on incorrect notions.

Read some history and study the area.

There is quite a bit research done...however I guess we can agree to disagree.
I will say by my definition of evangelical, that means they are zionist...which is not jewish, but anti-christ (no Im not religious), but I can beat an evangelical at a debate, and any Jewish person (not on a rabbinical level perhaps) at there own game...you know not my history.

And if you are religious, I have no clue, but read the above post...in judaism it is well known that only G-d knows who the true Jew is, and the problem of the mixed multitude, with many speculating the current Israeli government being part of it.

If your a Christian, than you need to talk with a rabbi to understand more where the Christian roots came from (though I have noticed most rabbis will not talk on a serious level with Christians...this is not meant to criticize a Christian or a Jew, but to give some background to the subject for clarification.

edit: the clarification being if we dont know who the "true jew is" (and this is by Judaism, yes...yes...I know the momma has to be, etc., but this goes beyond for those who understand)
If we dont know and rabbis admit that many of the Palestienians (call them arabs if you like) are more Jewish and true jews than some in Israel now...then you start to say whats going on.

And then you look at the end times events for the Christians and cant help but think (if they are right) they will be duped if they dont observe whats happening and dig a little deeper and listen to those leaders who lead them. The reason is it appears that certain prime evangelical leaders are zionist and those who directly influence and support them...which is not in line with Christianity or Judaism and is quite deceitful...(again not a Christian or Jewish value).

So thats about it...not sure I can explain it further...I do know of locked views...I have had them myself. In that we believe we know something and until we are convinced other wise, the world is wrong.
So its at this point what is said is said, cause after is just arguing, and no one wants to go there...


It will be interesting to watch this thread to see what other comments you receive, and also just in general.

Peace

Dalen

[edit on 1-10-2006 by dAlen]

Originally posted by Nihilist Fiend

Originally posted by Sun Matrix

It's all about Satan's attemp to wipe the Jew from the face of the earth thereby keeping the thing that God said would happen from happening. FAT CHANCE.

This is the problem faced when trying to solve real life issues when looking through a religious lens. My friend, have you ever been to Palestine. Have you seen the REAL LIFE suffering of ALL the people that live there. If the issue was approached in a secular and logical manner, we could end the senseless bloodshed that goes on in that region or at least curb it. Instead, people are frightened to take real action cling to the remnants of religion.

What does this have to do with anything. Let's just talk about truth, we can leave religion totally out of this as I have no use for religion.

The truth is that Palestinians are Philistines, they are not Arabs. The people that are now called Palestinians are Arabs that were displaced in a war against Israel.

The whole thing is a crock and if you knew the facts, you would understand this.

I have no problem discussing things without looking through the so called religious lens. I suggest you try the lens of facts and truth.

Research this and see if it is not so.

Originally posted by Sun Matrix
The truth is that Palestinians are Philistines, they are not Arabs. The people that are now called Palestinians are Arabs that were displaced in a war against Israel.

I have no problem discussing things without looking through the so called religious lens. I suggest you try the lens of facts and truth.

Maybe there is a different way to approach the responce to this.
As my above comments have not helped, here is another pointer.
(words are pointers, you have to look past them. Example:
You point to the moon and you tell the dog to look, and it looks at your finger...it doesnt understand to look past what is being pointed at.

So look past the words number one (this goes for everyone, it would help lessen any potential bickering.)

Secondly here is a pointer.
The question is NOT "what is a palestenian"...no.
But what is a Jew. (this is the point, as the palestenian or arab may be a jew)
If this is the case then the zionist (anti-christ) could be already torturing the jews in Gaza.

See this is a trick indeed.
If you say they are not Jews in Gaza (by blood) I will show you the Ashkenazim and say they are not either, and you then could not prove me wrong based on your theory on the why the palestenians are not Jews.

If you say its by religion then that opens a whole other can of worms.

Fact is, blood wise, its quite hard to pin-point anyone as anything but human.,
(though this is becoming questionable

So, who is the Jew...with the rabbis agreeing (perhaps not to Christians for sure), that only Hashem knows...then how can you or anyone else prove that the palestenians arent jews?

This thread was geared toward the conspiracy of the anti-christ in regards to how sly "he"is that even the Evangelical Christians would be decieved by him...pointing out whats happening in Gaza that he or a anti-christ system could be in place already torturing "jews."

As for me, its obvious people are being tortured in Gaza while everyone focuses on Lebanon...
...this is totally uncool who it is.

Peace

Dalen

Originally posted by Sun Matrix


What were the names of these Palestinian people prior to the renaming of Jerusalem? ???????????????????????????????????????????????????????

palestinian

pale (pale horse?)

pal (a friend)

pay less ten i alpha in.

pay less TEN (commandments) i alpha in.


in alpha i net seal lap, sell lap.

have not the jews broken all of the ten commandments in their persecution and judgment of the pale pay less across ten in eye see alpha in palestinian.
-- soms'

Originally posted by dAlen

Maybe there is a different way to approach the responce to this.
As my above comments have not helped, here is another pointer.
(words are pointers, you have to look past them. Example:
You point to the moon and you tell the dog to look, and it looks at your finger...it doesnt understand to look past what is being pointed at.

I like it. Good example


When the Antichrist is revealed the Christian will be gone.

[edit on 1-10-2006 by Sun Matrix]

[edit on 1-10-2006 by Sun Matrix]

Originally posted by Sun Matrix
I like it. Good example

When the Antichrist is revealed the Christian will be gone.

Thanks...good to be able to share a good sample.
God knows that my communication in the past has not been up to par in far as getting across my point. (call it laziness I suppose)

As far as when the Christians go (if indeed such a thing were to happen) it depends on which view of eschatology you hold as a lot seems up to debate...as usual.

Peace

Dalen

D Alen,

Ok, I think I see where your going. But a couple things I would like to clarify. I think you probably get the idea, but not all other posters may, and I think it is confusing the argument.

An "evangelical", Christian wise, is simply anyone who wants, on some level, to evangilize the world by spreading the Gospel of Jesus Christ. However, the word today has been misconstrued to be applied to just about any Christian that takes there faith seriously. If you want to get really technical, the Roman Catholics are "evangelical" as their mission is to go throughout the world and build parishies to spread God's word. However; I suspect if you asked the average Catholic if they were evangelical they would probably respond with "NO", even though by pure definition they are.

A "fundamentalist" is anyone who believes in a more stricter adherence and literal translation and interpritation of their relgious text. There are varying levels of how fundemental a person or church can get (hence why there are so many protestent denominations, espeically in the US) In a Christian sense most of your protestent relgions would be fundamentalist to one degree or another with Baptists, Church of Christ, Pentacostals, and many of the new "non denominational" churches being pretty fundamentalist and evangelical to one degree or another. One thing about the "non-denoms" is they tend to not be "religous" as much as focus on the relational aspect of being a Christian, however; these same people would probably be labelled "more relgious" then others, because of they tend to be outspoken about their faith, and are serious about evangilizing.

All that being said. I see your point, many Christian's may not see the antichrist due to the great deception(s) (if there are any Christians' here at the time, depending on your take on the Rapture).

Part of this is due to the fact that alot of Christians tend to be not very well educated in their faith (and some not educated in general), and do very little learning, short of what the pastor says on Sunday sermon. I am not saying they are bad people, but then they go try to talk about what they "know about" and fall flat on their face, thus giving people a wrong or poor sence on Christians and Christianity in general. They then come off as "religious" or "hypocritical", when they may just be un/undereducated on their relgion, and not prepared to present what they may wish to say in there heart.

This is part of the real deception, non Christians tend not to be open to the Gospel due to what they have seen, which is generally a poor or incorrect presentation of what Christianity is, and is not. Incidently, especially in my experience, the more educated a person is, the more likely they are to accept Jesus when the truly and seriously examine who Jesus is, in light of all the historical abd archelogical (even from secular sources), and even scientific evidence of who Jesus is.

As far as the Palestinins being the "real" Jews, I still don't see how you can get that. Even if they have ethnic ties to the Hebrews ( i don't think they do, except in isolated incidental cases), they have forsaken the God of Abraham, Isacc, and Jacob, and cast their lot with Islam. God will not look to lightly on that.

And yes, I am a Christian, and I would describe my beliefs as moderatly evangelical and fundamental. This however does not close me off to being open and examining of any topic, even though the examiniations would be in light of my Christian faith.

Jesus was the grandson of Cleopatra. Jesus was a Pharaoh, as was Moses/Akenaton.

Cleopatra to Christ & Scota, Egyptian Queen of the Scots

en.wikipedia.org...

Cleopatra was a direct descendant of Alexander's general, Ptolemy I Soter, son of Arsinoe and Lacus, both of Macedon. A Greek by language and culture, Cleopatra is reputed to have been the first member of her family in their 300-year reign in Egypt to have learned the Egyptian language.

[...]

In 42 BC, Mark Antony, one of the triumvirs who ruled Rome in the power vacuum following Caesar's death, summoned Cleopatra to meet him in Tarsus to answer questions about her loyalty. Cleopatra arrived in great state, and so charmed Antony that he chose to spend the winter of 41 BC–40 BC with her in Alexandria. On 25 December 40 BC she gave birth to twins, who were named Alexander Helios and Cleopatra Selene (II).

[...]

Cleopatra's son by Caesar, Caesarion, was proclaimed pharaoh by Egyptians, but Octavian had already won. Caesarion was captured and executed, his fate reportedly sealed by Octavian's famous phrase: "Too many Caesars". Thus ended not just the Hellenistic line of Egyptian pharaohs, but the line of all Egyptian pharaohs. The three children of Cleopatra with Antony were spared and taken back to Rome where they were reared by Antony's wife, Octavia.

Cleopatra was eqyptian. Alexander Helios was her son and he had a son who became Jesus. Jesus was actually a pharoah, but how do you think the Roman-christian world will accept this truth?

If Jesus returns in modern human form with a kingly claim, surely he will not meet with the expectations which the Church's false christ have built up. Most people will not recognize him, and they will see his re-institution of Celtic/Egyptian mysteries to be heretic. They will not accept belief in rebirth of souls, for the most part.

As a result, even if the bloodline still exists and Jesus' soul is reborn as a king, he will try the same thing he tried back then, namely, to convince people that rebirth of souls is true, and that the power of God rests inside each one of us.

en.wikipedia.org...

Alexander Helios (Greek: Ο Αλέξανδρος Ήλιος, 25 December 40 BC - Between 29 BC - 25 BC) was a Ptolemaic Prince and was the eldest son to Greek Ptolemaic Queen Cleopatra VII of Egypt and Roman Triumvir Mark Antony. His younger twin was Ptolemaic Princess Cleopatra Selene. He was of Greek and Roman heritage.

Cleopatra named him Alexander in honor of her Greek Macedonian heritage and after her maternal grandfather. His second name in Ancient Greek means "Sun"; Plutarch explains this was the counterpart of his twin sister’s second name Selene, meaning "Moon".

Alexander Helios was born, raised, and educated in Alexandria, Egypt. In late 34 BC, at the Donations of Alexandria, he was made ruler of Armenia, Media and Parthia. These kingdoms were, in fact, already ruled by Artavasdes II of Armenia (he was captured by Mark Antony), Artavasdes I of Media and Phraates IV of Parthia. He was probably intended to only control these thrones eventually. In 33 BC, he was engaged to Iotapa, a Princess of Media and daughter of King Artavasdes I of Media.

[...]

The fate of Alexander Helios is unknown. Plutarch states that the only child that Octavian killed of Antony’s was Marcus Antonius Antyllus. The ancient sources do not mention any military service, political career, involvement in scandals, marriage plans or descendants; if he had survived to adulthood, at least one of these would probably have been noted.

Wiki is wrong here, in assuming that since there are no records of Alex. Helios' military, political or scandalous life, that he did not exist greatly or bear children. He was smart enough to know who he was. His son, the historical Jesus, who was not crucified, lived a long life and travelled throughout Asia.

The crucifiction is a fraud, perpetuated by the Romans, and it remains fraudulent, despite the millions who've been captured mentally by it. The majority of Romanic Christians will die to preserve the simplistic, childish image of Christ which has been created in their minds. Similar to the way an abused child will cry and protest when child services comes to take their hateful abusing parent away. The child will cry as if their heart is being torn out, even though the parent would savagely abuse them if not removed from the house.


[edit on 1-10-2006 by smallpeeps]