Innocent People Being Put on Watch List

Originally posted by grover
Whether or not war is ever a solution to anything other than over-population is entirely a matter of opinion... I say no it is a waste...you obviously say yes.

REPLY: I'm fairly certain that most of Europe would differ with you. My main point is that lasting peace has never been the result of anything but victory.

Originally posted by zappafan1

REPLY: I'm fairly certain that most of Europe would differ with you. My main point is that lasting peace has never been the result of anything but victory.

I really kina hate to agree with you but what you say is right. And there is the peace because there are very few or no one left to challenge the ruleing body.

that does not really have anything to do with the watch list though. I seriously doubt the watch list will be used for a revolution or anything similar.

[edit on 27-7-2006 by RedGolem]

From the link posted by the author:

That's why several air marshals object to a July 2004 memo from top management in the Las Vegas office, a memo that reminded air marshals of the SDR requirement.

The body of the memo said, "Each federal air marshal is now expected to generate at least one SDR per month."

"Does that memo read to you that Federal Air Marshal headquarters has set a quota on these reports?" Kovaleski asked.

"Absolutely, no doubt," an air marshal replied.

If there is such a memo requiring quotas, I'd like to see it. Supposedly one exists. Why didn't 7NEWS publish the memo?

Originally posted by jsobecky
From the link posted by the author:
If there is such a memo requiring quotas, I'd like to see it. Supposedly one exists. Why didn't 7NEWS publish the memo?

Jsobecky
Since that is a supose to be a memo that does not supose to exist it would be good to see, but I doubt it will ever come to life. Information from whisle blowers such as this rarely does.

I don't think we need air marshalls anymore, but not for the same reasons that have been stated previously. My main reason for not thinking we need them anymore is the fact that the passengers will no longer put up with something like that. No one in their right mind will allow ANYONE to EVER take over another aircraft again, especially with box cutters. Someone tries that now, and the passengers are more likely to kill him with their bare hands than he/she is to get control of the airplane. People are no longer afraid of that. Those 19 men ruined the hijacking of airliners permanently on 9/11, which is a good thing I guess. One less way that unscrupulous people can take advantage of us.

And that I think is the most ironic thing of all. Out of all of the evil that surrounds that incident, something genuinely good came of it; the will of We the People to stand firm and tell those that wish to do us harm to STICK IT!

TheBorg

Originally posted by TheBorg

And that I think is the most ironic thing of all. Out of all of the evil that surrounds that incident, something genuinely good came of it; the will of We the People to stand firm and tell those that wish to do us harm to STICK IT!

TheBorg

Borg,
An awfull lot of what you said hear is true. I do think the passangers on an air line will not longer let a hijacker get contril if it can be helped in any way. As wtih the shoe bomber, the passangers did quite a number on him as I reacall. But there is more to it then that, there were 5 person on the planes on the 11th. That is enuff to make a suprise attack on a critical area with a small chance of sucess today even with the bullet proof doors. Is always a chance that a device will be brought abord by a wana be hijacker that an air marshal will need to put down. I dont necessarly like what this tred is about but I still like to think there is a good reason behind it.

Originally posted by RedGolem
Borg,
An awfull lot of what you said hear is true. I do think the passangers on an air line will not longer let a hijacker get contril if it can be helped in any way. As wtih the shoe bomber, the passangers did quite a number on him as I reacall. But there is more to it then that, there were 5 person on the planes on the 11th. That is enuff to make a suprise attack on a critical area with a small chance of sucess today even with the bullet proof doors. Is always a chance that a device will be brought abord by a wana be hijacker that an air marshal will need to put down. I dont necessarly like what this tred is about but I still like to think there is a good reason behind it.

Again, that's the point here I think. It's the concensus of the People that no longer will hijackings be allowed to take place on airliners. If a device were brought on board, and the people were threatened with it, I don't think that would deter them one bit. Remember on Flight 93, the hijackers said they had a bomb. It was a fake one, true, but the passengers didn't know that at the time. There is NO way, in my mind anyway, that that will ever be tolerated again.

For too long have people been complacent. If nothing else, this singular event has shaken the People out of their collective shells enough to notice how bad things have gotten.

TheBorg

You and I know we are innocent of evil intentions, but those in charge of our security do not. Someone will always complain though, as if everyone is being monitored and kept track of. Nonsense.

As mentioned, if there were no efforts to try and find terrorists (and some actually believe they don't exist), when something bad happens they will be the first to scream: why was nothing being done."

they need to make that quota so that you have to catch an actual terrorist, and if you get someone put on the list who is innocent, you lose your job outright.

/departs fantasyland...

Originally posted by zappafan1

Originally posted by grover
Whether or not war is ever a solution to anything other than over-population is entirely a matter of opinion... I say no it is a waste...you obviously say yes.

REPLY: I'm fairly certain that most of Europe would differ with you. My main point is that lasting peace has never been the result of anything but victory.

Actually I am the one who thinks that you would be wrong... the EU grew out of the ruins of WW2 after it was realized that repeated disasterous wars solved nothing.

Actually I am the one who thinks that you would be wrong... the EU grew out of the ruins of WW2 after it was realized that repeated disasterous wars solved nothing.

REPLY: And where would the EU be if WW2 never happened? Anyway, it's not an answer to my original question, and off topic. Nice try, though.

that is circular logic and doesn't answer anything.

Originally posted by grover
that is circular logic and doesn't answer anything.

EPLY: It was direct response pertaining t your post. We're off topic.

So let me get this straight.. . . .When I was on a school art club trip to Paris last summer, I took a picture of the inside of the airplane so my parents could see what it was like. Now I may be considered a terrorist! Oh great-I guess that's the end of my travelling.

Originally posted by Corgidancer
So let me get this straight.. . . .When I was on a school art club trip to Paris last summer, I took a picture of the inside of the airplane so my parents could see what it was like. Now I may be considered a terrorist! Oh great-I guess that's the end of my travelling.

Corgidancer,
yes that is it. That will hopefully not be the end of your travelling. Perhaps some day the watch list will beacome public so we can all see if we are on it then. But an art trip to Paris, that really sounds great, I would like to see Paris, and France some day.

I know I will catch hell for this but I feel it is important to get the word out. After some long consideration about this thread, I feel that zappafan is correct. What I don't agree on is who will win (under the current conditions).

What Islam does is provide structure and a feeling of belonging to something greater for its devotees. The West does not have such a vast unifying system. Here we are all divided into our own groups, some larger than others, but nevertheless we are still divided. As a case in point, when was the last time we had a true national project?

Because of this Islam will achieve absolute victory over the west and be the first mainstream religion to bring true peace to the world. Unfortunately the reality for those who still believe in the right to choose, they will be the ones hunted down, oppressed, and forced into labor in the community centers of their own making.

The only way to fight back is to rally 100% with a unifying force, and I don't think it matters as much who it is or what they believe as long as we can pull together on a national scale. I would rather listen to fundamentalist Christian indoctrination than have to face Mecca five times a day. I don't care about the differences in the parties, so much as I care about uniting with the strongest one. Its not about us anymore, its about the world.

Message out, may the future change.

This reminds me of George Orwells animal farm... It all goes in circles.. The animal farm is setup by animals to fight the tyranny of man.. The pigs take over the farm and run it with the original goal.. The last scene has them walking on two legs like a man dressed in suits and ties...a drink in their hands .. and (possibly pork in their plates...)
The chinese communists are more sincere capitalists than the original capitalists they set out to fight.... The Communists Russia with KGB keeping tags on its citizens (... what an evil it was)... has been washed out.. The Americans .. now keeping tags on their own citizens.. to guard their liberties.. The circle is complete... the similarity is startling.. the pattern so recognizable.
Guard your chains.. help us do it .. it is for ur freedom!!!

This Kind of Action is not only Unnecessary but it is also Unamerican. what gives any government the right to go through any persons private affairs.

A hopefully very dramatized example of this is in the movie Enemy Of The State. What the overall outcome shows is that the NSA (National Security Admin.) has the ability to track, listen to, and generally spy on any given Person at any given time.

Its easy to get distracted by the whole " oh boy a new way to fight terrorism" but is potential and partial protection from these threats worth all of our civil liberties?

[edit on 31-7-2006 by hOmEmAde_MoLoTaV]

Maybe if Washington didn't do everything that Isreal wanted then the terrorists would leave the US a lone?

It is time for a made in the USA foreign policy platform and let Israel stand on its won two feet.

America may not be perfect but its not bad as proclaimed by many Middle Eastern Leaders, the west is only being used as a distraction from the domestic problems in their nations. The war is the same exact thing.