Hydro Thermal Mega Plume

Now that the entire world knows that the oceans are revealing it's dirty little secrets, maybe the global warming idiots will take notice. The under water volcanos which by the way produce magma spewing CO2 into the atmosphere is creating havoc across the globe. Drakes passage and Italy are the sites of two newly discovered systems. The hydro thermal mega plume in the pacific ocean has grown so damn big that the worlds scientists are in awe.
The true REALITY is this: Mother nature has just recently guided us all to the fact that she is at the end of the interglacial period. The oceans of the world have changed and are changing. The walker circulation is in flux. The sea floor is a hot bed of CO2 and releasing it into the atmosphere. The atmosphere will trap this with the clouds and less sunlight will reach the earth. The sun has it's own agenda.
The earth responds in kind. Today germany was nailed with hail the size of baseballs. floods are rampant through out the globe. When winter hits again over here, it'll snow like a bastard. The entire universe is heating up with planets going through it's own warming. What happens next? The big Chill. Its a cycle and there is nothing anyone can do about it. The lithosphere is moving north. The oceans will turn warmer, the crust will avalanche and scientists know it. Building a vault in at the north pole to preserve our "heritage" is great. Who'll be here to enjoy it? Sure they can use the seeds at the space station perhaps. How long will this "Ice Age" last? who knows. I tell you that the ancient astronomers knew as the great year is coming to an end 25,290 yr period (chinese) it co-insides with the Myan end of their calendar. Who will survive? Nature decides. It's natural selection.
So, the global warming nutbags think they know what's really happening?
They ain't got a CLUE. No computer model can predict this cycle.
It happened before and it's happening again. Climate change can creep but it can also rapidly change. Tomorrows shuttle flight sends atmospheric instruments up to study the clouds. They know. do you? underwater volcanism/ hydro thermal mega plumes tell a great story. You should research it so you can know too!

if it happened before then who cares i think when can survive it

humanity has gone through one ice age.. sure we got down to about 14 breeding females but we survived. were better equiped now and there are more of us.

Originally posted by protostar
Drakes passage and Italy are the sites of two newly discovered systems.

Nothing new about the volcano between Italy and Malta - last time it erupted it produced a new island which was claimed by both Britian and Italy, before it sank back beneath the waves .... The volcano simply covers a bigger area than previously though, that's all.

The hydro thermal mega plume in the pacific ocean has grown so damn big that the worlds scientists are in awe.

Do you have any references for this?

protostar, I have to agree with you. I too believe that the world is just going through a natural cycle. Saying that we are responsible for all of it gives us more credit than we deserve. Granted mankind has really made a mess of things, but nature is a more powerful force than I think most realize. Maybe it makes people feel better to think that we have a hand in it rather than nature is a power beyond anyones imagination, capable of things we havent even begun to see or understand. Some of the ice out there is very old, but that is all it is...old. It has not always been there. The earth gets cold, then warm, then cold and so on. Desserts move, lakes dissapear, and other lakes appear. It is a cleaning cycle. Something that we will never be able to controll. Most people just do not like change.

(I thought your post was well written, and made good points, but the "global warming idiots" insult kind of took all the class out of it. Know what I mean? )

[edit on 7-7-2006 by mrsdudara]

[edit on 7-7-2006 by mrsdudara]

Protostar, your post made very little sense. The Italian seamount that created Graham's Island (insert your own name depending on whoever else claimed it) is currently dormant. No major volcano is currently active enough to merit attention. The supervolcanoes are also all dormant. I don't know what you mean about Drakes Passage or the Pacific mega-plume, other than to ask if this is a reference to Hawaii? If it is, well, there's only one volcano erupting there, and it's been erupting for years. Yawn.
Oh and the Lithosphere is slipping???? Where to, pray tell?
Global warming on the other hand is very much happening.

National Geographic News

That is a link to info about the one in the Indian Ocean that is beyond large. Maybe that is the one you were thinking of?

Links would be good, protostar.

The Lithosphere is moving north. Crushing the already fractured plates.
The methane gas which is coming up through Lake Onterio has been eating
away at steel structures. Now recently, a host of dead fish has been found there.
The lithosphere has been losing it's adhesive quality from the heating up from the core of the earth via the convection currents. If you want to study this, I suggest you do so dark mind. Posting links will only gratify you momentarily. It is somthing that you need to STUDY and find on your own or you won't understand the complexity of the situation. You need to RE-study the new volcano found near italy and at drakes passage. The mega plume and all vents are inter-connected. Global warming is a myth. CLIMATE CHANGE is a REALITY. Get it?
2 smoking guns with only one real bullet friend. All info is opinions. Only when you use that grey matter between your ears will you really understand it all.
And another thing, dormant volcano's ARE NOT DORMANT ANYMORE.
Some are awake and active. Try not to confuse people. Its hard enough to try to get your point across as it is so much easier to believe a lie than to actually do the math to find the COMPLICATED TRUTH.
And believe me, the truth is complicated. One thing stands out in all of this. That the core samples TELL THE TRUTH. Try this, next time you read or hear something about climate change, try to listen to what ISN'T said. If you can do that, then you'll be well on your way to getting to the bottom of the situation.
Do it not, and you'll not be ready for what the earth dishes out in the near future.

visz.rsoe.hu...
aslwww.cr.usgs.gov...

These charts are crazy! While everyone is looking at isreal, the real
problem is right here!

The lithosphere is moving. What else could cause so many earthquakes at one time? What about the volcanos' going off? see list here www.volcanolive.com...

Originally posted by protostar
The Lithosphere is moving north. Crushing the already fractured plates.

The lithosphere and the plates are effectively one and the same thing

And if one part of the lithosphere is moving north (presumably some sort of improbable earth crust dispalcement?), then another must be moving south.

And the best way to find out if this is happening is by checking SLR or GFS measurements.

cddis.nasa.gov...

It's not. The plates are continuing to move in different directions relative to one another. The is no hemispherical northward or southward drift.

Originally posted by protostar
The Lithosphere is moving north. Crushing the already fractured plates.

The plates have been fractured for billions of years. Crushed though? By what? And what do you mean the Lithosphere is moving north??? The lithosphere is made up of the Crust of the Earth and the top part of the Mantle. It's all one. There is no north for it to move to.

Originally posted by protostar
And another thing, dormant volcano's ARE NOT DORMANT ANYMORE.
Some are awake and active. Try not to confuse people. Its hard enough to try to get your point across as it is so much easier to believe a lie than to actually do the math to find the COMPLICATED TRUTH.

Errmmm..... There are three categories of volcanic activity.
Extinct - this is self-evident by the name. It's dead. Will not erupt. It is pushing up the daisies. This, is an ex-volcano.
Dormant - still alive, can potentially erupt, but not erupting now. May be steaming every now and then, may be sitting there like a big lump of rock and trying to look innocent.
Active - if there is a big glowing ash cloud coming towards you had better start running for the nearest high ground, or try and get very drunk very quickly, because you're going to die.
There are a few volcanoes currently active. I can think of Galeras, Mayon, Soufriere Hills, Mount St Helens... all showing domebuilding activity or strombolian activity. No Plinian as far as I know.

Originally posted by protostar
And believe me, the truth is complicated. One thing stands out in all of this. That the core samples TELL THE TRUTH.

I am telling the truth. What core samples????

try not to get bitchy... I could post the link to all the dorman/non-dormant volcanos' that are active but I'm not going to. You know what's up if you are
interested in this. Why do you ignore the truth? Why do you flay the truth to the
ocean's situation? What's the matter with you? BAMUS VOLCANO, NEAR KARAI, ERUPTS AFTER 120 YEARS DORMANCY I guess, I just made that up.

TORRID-AREA VOLCANO KARAI ERUPTS FOR FIRST TIME HISTORICALLY ON NEW BRITAIN, IN PAPUA, NEW GUINEA and Hey, i'm a wizard. lookey here...

An earth crust displacement, as the words suggest, is a movement of the ENTIRE outer shell of the earth over its inner layers. If you remove the peel from an orange and then reattach it to the fruit you can visualize the possibility of the peel moving over the inner layers. The earth's crust, can similarly change its position over the inner layers. When it does the globe experiences climatic change. The climatic zones (polar, temperate and tropical) remain the same because the sun still shines on the earth from the same angle in the sky. From the perspective of people on the earth at the time, it appears as the sky is falling. In reality it is the earth's crust shifting to another location. Some land moves towards the tropics. Others shift, with the same movement, towards the poles. Yet others may escape such great changes in latitude. Nevertheless, look into the holy works and records of the ancient civilizations and you will find corroboration from what remains of the 'media' of their time, their mythology, legends and folklore. Cataclysmic events on a global scale did strike the civilizations of the ancients, and many recorded it in the clearest and most intelligible ways they were capable of at the time. The accounts survive to this day as myths of catastrophes.

but hey, since you know more than the ancient people from thousands of years ago can relate, I'll listen.... by the way, core samples have proven that MAJOR climate change has happend within HOURS friend... HOURS....

And Essan, how can the plates be the same WHEN YOU HAVE A SUBDUCTED PLATE IN INDONESIA? Ever played ker-plunk? eh? I know you got grey matter man, try to use it...You don't think that a chunk being in the way matters?
What about the mass found near the core? how did that get there? Oh I see,
there is lots of room for all the plates to dart in and out, ease by grind and mould. hmmm. nothing abnormal here.... no possibility of being extra slippery....
abstract pls..

I think that we got off the beaten path. We are discussing the hydro thermal mega
plumes, and the fact that they are heating up the ocean and the possibility of the plates moving north. What happens when the convection currents over heat?
or, the earth's mein temp gets too hot? Not discussing the atmosphere which is another entity, the terra firma itself... Are you saying that the earth has a temperature gague that keeps it a cool and eco friendly temp?
Why after millions of years can the convection current not malfunction? or for a better word, over heat? since the poles are losing it's ice, changing the centifugal balance to a tighter rotation thereby spinning faster? You know scientists have found that the core has spun faster recently. What reason other than becoming more fluid? Look at your ancient text.. An abundance of planketon
then, die off of plankton right before the KT BOUNDRY EXTINCTION EVENT.
Sure, an asteroid came and did it all. pfft, it started w/ the ocean and again I say the core samples DON'T LIE. What core samples? Are you kidding?

protostar - I find your information interesting and your analysis intriguing. Thank you.

But please, can you speak to readers/responders with more respect? ...Not everyone has your knowledge base - and some of us read to learn. So teach, please.

btw - links are always good. also btw - have you checked this out? Quakes trigger Quakes

Originally posted by protostar
aslwww.cr.usgs.gov...

Some of those charts are really crazy, are those normal for those areas? Some look plain jane others are herky jerky all over the place. Who is ATS resident earthquake specialist?

Originally posted by Darkmind
I don't know what you mean about Drakes Passage or the Pacific mega-plume, other than to ask if this is a reference to Hawaii? If it is, well, there's only one volcano erupting there, and it's been erupting for years.

Actually there are two. There's Kilauea on the Big Island, and there's another one off shore under the ocean. I can't remember the name of the new island but it's very slowly growing under the ocean. They're finding interesting things around it.

Originally posted by protostar
I think that we got off the beaten path. We are discussing the hydro thermal mega
plumes, and the fact that they are heating up the ocean and the possibility of the plates moving north. What happens when the convection currents over heat?
or, the earth's mein temp gets too hot? Not discussing the atmosphere which is another entity, the terra firma itself... Are you saying that the earth has a temperature gague that keeps it a cool and eco friendly temp?
Why after millions of years can the convection current not malfunction? or for a better word, over heat? since the poles are losing it's ice, changing the centifugal balance to a tighter rotation thereby spinning faster? You know scientists have found that the core has spun faster recently. What reason other than becoming more fluid? Look at your ancient text.. An abundance of planketon
then, die off of plankton right before the KT BOUNDRY EXTINCTION EVENT.
Sure, an asteroid came and did it all. pfft, it started w/ the ocean and again I say the core samples DON'T LIE. What core samples? Are you kidding?

The Earth is billions of years old and has been working quite well. The geology of the Earth is determined by certain set limits, including size, age, place in the Solar System and so on. There is no temperature gauge. What baffles me is what you're trying to say. Convection currents in the lower mantle are one thing, but lithosphere movement is another. The theory of crustal displacement has been around for a while, but there no - repeat, no - evidence that it is happening now. And as far as I know (and I have a degree in history not to mention extreme curiousity) there are no carvings by ancient people's alleging that a crustal displacement shift occured. If you are going to allege this, please provide a link.
I would also remind you that ancient civilisations had not the first clue about the actual geography of the Earth, let alone the way that it worked. Some people thought that the Earth was balance on the back of a giant turtle. This was not a valid scientific theory.
The plates are not all currently moving north. (Yes, Africa is in the middle of crunching into Europe and India is still slowing down after hitting Asia, while Australia is busy getting involved in the Indonesian sea plate. I'd like to stress the difference between sea plate and continental plate. The former is a lot thinner than the latter and keeps subducting below the latter Have a look at a good map of the plate systems and you can see old bits all over it. There are several pieces of old plates around the US.) Europe is staying put, North America is moving west, Anctartica is moving north relative to its own position... what else?
The asteroid? What else put the iridium down on the K-T boundary? And the current theory is that it was a joint factor in the demise of the dinosaurs. The impact happened at the same time as the massive volcanism at the Deccan Traps in India. By a funny coincidence the Deccan Traps are exactly opposite the point where the asteroid struck. There is a theory that it might have made the eruption of basalt worse. (The same effect can be seen on Mercury. The Caloris Basin is a huge impact site. The exact other side of the planet is a mess.)
Oh, you mentioned volcanoes. A average of 20 are eruping every day all over the planet. There has not been any significant rise in that number. And just because a dormant volcano has woken up for the first time in the historical record, can I just ask so what? The historical record in Papua New Guinea is not that long, a few hundreds years at best. And when I say historical record, I mean the verifiable history of the area, as written down by people. For the world in general that's only a few thousand years at best. The Roman inhabitants of Pompeii had no idea that Vesuvius was a volcano, despite the fact that it had erupted a few hundred years before. Context is everything. Man is a short-lived, short-memoried creature. Whenever I hear of some old fossil of a bloke say that the mountain can't erupt because it hasn't in his lifetime, I snort: "So what?" That amount of time, geologically speaking, is so short as to be utterly meaningless.
By the way, here's a link to a site that I use every day as a part of my job: www.usgs.gov... It's very informative about both volcanoes and earthquakes. I love it.
And finally, again, what core samples? Which core? The Earth's? If it is the latter, then we don't have any! We've only ever been able to drill into the crust of the Earth, and even then we didn't get halfway through! Please explain!?!

Originally posted by protostar
I think that we got off the beaten path. We are discussing the hydro thermal mega
plumes, and the fact that they are heating up the ocean and the possibility of the plates moving north. What happens when the convection currents over heat?

Fine.

How about some evidence to support your conjecture? Just saying you think something is happening doesn't necessarily make it so. especially when experts disagree with you

So, firstly what exactly is a 'hydro thermal mega plume' and secondly what evidence do you have that it's repsonsible for a rise in ocean temps?

Also, why do you keep referring to the plates moving north? They can;t all be moving north ...... What actual evidence do you have?

Look at your ancient text.. An abundance of planketon
then, die off of plankton right before the KT BOUNDRY EXTINCTION EVENT.
Sure, an asteroid came and did it all. pfft, it started w/ the ocean and again I say the core samples DON'T LIE. What core samples? Are you kidding?

A die off of plankton before the K/T extinction? Again, do you have references for this?

And you still haven't explained whoch cores you mean and what their relevance is? I assume you're referring to seabed and/or ice cores? These give us a wealth of paleoclimatic data going back (in the case of ice cores) 740,000 years.

If you want a serious discussion, you need to give us a bit more to go on.

Maybe even just which book or website you've been reading to get these ideas from?

is the lithosphere moving north ?

NO !!!

this claim sounds suspiciously like a re hash of the crustal displacement theory

a rebutal appears here , curtesy of talk origins .

currently scientists are monitoring the red sea -- where 3 plates are moving in 3 different directions

the nubian plate is migrating NW ,
the arabian plate NE
and the somalian plate SE

todays times has a good graphic :



here is the fullsized file

and lastly the news story, curtesy of times online .

science , not ignorance , enjoy

Originally posted by Essan

... firstly what exactly is a 'hydro thermal mega plume' and secondly what evidence do you have that it's repsonsible for a rise in ocean temps?

This link was posted earlier - very informative.

Hydrothermal "Megaplume" Found in Indian Ocean

An enormous hydrothermal "megaplume" found in the Indian Ocean serves as a dramatic reminder that underwater volcanoes likely play an important role in shaping Earth's ocean systems, scientists report. ...The plume, which stretches some 43.5 miles (70 kilometers) long, appears to be active on a previously unseen scale. ...The appearance of hydrothermal vents around the world suggests that they are a far more common part of the ocean system than once believed and could be a major influence on circulation patterns and ocean chemistry. ...Scientists are only beginning to identify the tectonic conditions that may indicate where the fields can be found, but the possible locations are increasing. ..."I'd be surprised if in the next five years we didn't experience a mini-revolution in terms of finding these [fields] in places where they are not supposed to exist," said geophysicist Robert Reves-Sohn of the Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution.

Hydrothermal vents are volcanic hotspots that emit gasses and mineral-enriched water as hot as 760°F (400°C). The heat from these vents supports unique ecosystems where creatures survive using thermal and chemical energy in place of sunlight. ...Megaplumes like the one found in the Indian Ocean are probably caused by undersea volcanic eruptions, though scientists aren't yet certain. ..."Once formed they can possibly hang around for years," Murton said. The heat from such events could have a dramatic effect on ocean circulation, which plays a role in determining Earth's climate. ..."The energy content is an order of magnitude greater [than ordinary plumes], and the thermal power may be many orders of magnitude greater," Murton said.

"A normal hydrothermal vent might produce something like 500 megawatts, while this is producing 100,000 megawatts. It's like an atom bomb down there." ..."Some studies estimate that for the Pacific, background thermal heating might increase ocean circulation by up to 50 percent," Murton said. ...Regular hydrothermal fields stir the water for only a few hundred meters (about a thousand feet) above the ocean floor. "But these megaplumes can reach a column of 1,000 to 1,500 meters [3,280 to 4,920 feet], so it reaches right up into the midwater," he said. ...But even the Indian Ocean megaplume may be small compared to larger underwater eruptions that have as yet gone undetected. ..."At the moment those that we've seen have come from small eruptions in the larger scheme of things," he said. ..."But we know when we look at the ocean floor that there have been much larger eruptions, so we can only speculate about what magnitude of event plumes would come from those."

The new data on hydrothermal fields and megaplumes underscores the fact that volcanic activity on the ocean floor remains a largely mysterious phenomenon.

Also, why do you keep referring to the plates moving north?

Not sure if this is what protostar means but in some places "going north" is slang for FUBAR.



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[edit on 23-7-2006 by soficrow]