Rumsfeld May Have Ordered Children To Be Raped and Sodomized In Front Of Parents For Information

Originally posted by Nygdan

Originally posted by Anon4this1
Again, stop comparing apples to cut-up oranges.

You're the one comparing apples to oranges. The pictures released to the public were nothing compared to the pictures that weren't released, the ones that weren't released were too horrible and sadistic for the congress to even suggest that they be released.

Stop sympathizing and start loathing and despising the true enemy of the civilized world. Rummy is not the enemy.

Um, hello, I didn't claim he was, in fact, I've re-iterated that there's no connection to Rumsfeld here, certainly nothing like what the title claims.

Yumi
Things Seymour Hersh has exposed.

So, should the title of this thread be changed to "I like seymour hersh", or does this infact have anything to do with Don Rumsfeld?

BadMojo
I could photoshop a document like that in the time it takes to type it...big whoop

Alright, which is it?

Is the document a fake, or are the claims within it lies?

Which is it?

"Don't hurt the insurgents. They're resisting occupation.

Rather, peopel are saying "Don't rape little children".


As far as the claims in the pdf being fake, this photo
www.antiwar.com...

shows a person in the same position as the man in the pdf described it, with the woman's panties on his head too.

That doesn't mean that the child-rape happened. But its disturbing to see that there are some factually accurate things in that pdf, what else is factual?

Also, lets stop pretending that every person in a uniform in an angel. Nothing that was described was beyond the capabilities of a US Soldier, since US soldiers are just people.


More torture photos
www.thememoryhole.org...

Can you really say that the peopel that did this:
www.thememoryhole.org...
Weren't also going to rape some of this prisoners?
And that the guys who arranged this group photo werent' dealing with some homo-erotic impusles of their own??
www.thememoryhole.org...

Are you kidding????


I can only hope that that is drool
www.thememoryhole.org...

You do realize that this is human excrement he is covered in right, not 'freedom lather'
www.thememoryhole.org...

The sort of sick sadists that beat other people for pleasure and smear excrement all over them, we're supposed to beleive that they are above rape?

And, again, as revolting as this is, WTF does it have to do with Don Rumsfeld?? Where's the proof that he ordered these things and approved of them for intelligence gathering?

Links?

Originally posted by Nygdan

And, again, as revolting as this is, WTF does it have to do with Don Rumsfeld?? Where's the proof that he ordered these things and approved of them for intelligence gathering?

I have to agree with you here. There is no connection to Rumsfeld. It's still discusting that people come in here and say...yippie, we're beating people to death, smearing human excrement all over them, piling them up naked, and possibly raping them. But in the next breath say, they are the barbaric camel hearders that tortured 2 of our guys, so they deserve it. I for one would hope that our side would be above this...obviously hope springs eternal.

Originally posted by Anon4this1

Links?

Huh? Couldn't you see the plethera of links that Nygdan put up? Or are you just being a troll?

comeon everyone lets calm down a little, to me this is a perfectly valid discussion here.

Do i think rumsfield or anyone else could order these things to be done possibly.
do i believe this sort of things happen BIG HELL YES IT DOES.
this sort of thing hasnt only happened in iraq you know there have been cases of torture from different armed sorces through out other wars as well. VIETNAM being a major one were soldiers went into villages and raped the woman and killed them all. ( using this as an example)

Things like this do go on, open your eyes.
and i for one do not condone this sort of behaviour from any soldier or civillian.

Originally posted by Griff

Originally posted by Anon4this1

Links?

Huh? Couldn't you see the plethera of links that Nygdan put up? Or are you just being a troll?

Saw them. There were claims of "much worse" photos that could not be released. These have been seen and seen again.

And really, you compare that abuse by a bunch of degenerate West Virginia hillbillies to the organised atrocities happening by radical Muslims around the world every single day.

Heads are definitely in the sand. The view is extremely dim and one-sided.

I do not agree fully with the nutcases at Abu Gharib. They suffer the same disease that plagues the radical Muslim. The same hate and extreme prejudice. But the actions still are not comparable to mulitation and then subsequent murder. The one incident pales in comparison with the last several hundred years' of violence inflicted by this travelling band of savages.

To people who DON'T READ, I already posted this part, but of course your blinders make it so you can't see it.

"the abuses were part of a secret interrogations program, known as "Copper Green", expanded to Iraq with the direct approval of Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld " One of the links I gave, I actually posted that so people wouldn't have to actually click on the links, but I guess they are to lazy to even read this.
He approved of them, he ordered it!


[edit on 22-6-2006 by Yumi]

How dare you??? Is it alright to use such evil??? Hell no. I didnt even read thru the thread but let me tell you this. I fully believe the story by the original poster and its just pure unadulterated evil.

@#$!!! Beheadings is nothing compared to this. If we didnt have our arses where we dont belong, there would be no American casualties. I dont see them coming here and beheading us. "THAT'S BECAUSE BUSH PROTECTS US" (I can hear the choir)

I better get out of here before i blow the only gasket i have left.

Originally posted by Anon4this1
These sources are deemed unreliable.

I doubt it happened, only out of sheer hope, but at least I recognize that that's naive of me.

You act as if it's "our fault". We "made them mad" so they came to get us.

I can't speak for anyone else, but its pretty obvious that if you have peopel going around raping children and men, that those children and men are going to come back and kill you. Is it the fault of the people that died in the WTC? No. But can we, at least, be surprised, when non-islamists in iraq put a bomb on the roadside?

Abu Gharib...maybe, but we sent people to prison over that so it's not the "U.S." that's doing even that particular bit of stuff.
Indeed, and that is the claim of Yumi in the opening post, but he/she still has yet to even attempt to substantiate it, that this was ordered by specifcally Rumsfeld, let alone anyone in the Administration.

We have a clear enemy and they are the masked figures beheading, killing

THe very fact that they are masked is what makes this difficult. THese guys don't wear uniforms, hell even the NAZIS wore uniforms. These guys don't, and given that the US simply isn't popular in the first place, we have to be incredibly careful not to arrest and detain innocent, though not fond of america, civilians, and we CERTAINLY can't permit our own soliders to murder, torture, rape, and kill, men, women, chidlren, put under their guard. Who in Iraq wouldn't rather be shot to death when the americans come to their house, even if they are innocent, after hearing about abu garaib? Who in Iraq would let their wives or daughters be taken in 'for questioning', possibly to those goons???

This is the enemy. Be clear on that or they will never be defeated.

The enemy is anything or anyone that inhibits the WOT. THus, those soldiers, are very much the enemy, they may as well be the propaganda arm of al qaida. THey should probably be shot, along with any insurgent.

They do not care about you and therein lies the problem.

The problem, that is largely holding us up in Iraq, is that the Iraqis are probably starting to realize that we don't care about them. And that we'll cover up horrendous abuse inflicted upon them, and not, if not prevent it, then mette out Justice to the abusers.

You can't rape some guy in the butt on friday and then expect him to tell you where the bad guys are on saturday.

Rumsfeld Ordered Torture

Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld put in place a secret operation that, in Hersh's words, "encouraged physical coercion and sexual humiliation of Iraqi prisoners in an effort to generate more intelligence about the growing insurgency in Iraq."

Children at Abu Ghraib

Mysteriously, not all of the links work, but some do.

German Article in English

Yeah, this kind of news doesn't make it to the US... but plenty of countries around the world know about the US behavior at Abu Ghraib...

...when only .001 percent of them deserve it. It truly cuts me to my soul to read the negative posting on our troops. If it is true than that would be worse but the sources don't seem to be reliable. If I am missing some credible link in this story please U2U me it so I can read it.

Originally posted by ConstantlyWondering
...when only .001 percent of them deserve it. It truly cuts me to my soul to read the negative posting on our troops. If it is true than that would be worse but the sources don't seem to be reliable. If I am missing some credible link in this story please U2U me it so I can read it.

yes its a shame that the whole army gets tarred and feathered for the few bad apples they have. but honestly i cant say the army top honches are completly blameless either the ones i feel sorry for are the men and woman who are there trying there best to serve their duty and come home

The one who should be tarred and feathered should be Rumsfeld. Our men are under severe stress, 120 degree weather and they get their orders from the devil.
I do feel sorry for them. They dont deserve the blame.
The blame should go directly to this evil empire here.

Originally posted by Yumi

Seymour Hersh was also the first reporter to say we would not find WMDs.
He has won Polk Awards, and in 2004 won another award, over all he has won over a Dozen Respectable Awards, plus a few minor ones.

Let's not forget the Pulitzer Prize in 1970 for International Reporting. This is a well respected man in his field as well as being someone who has the guts to say what is really happening in the face of a radical administration hell bent on war and cover-up. He was famous for exposing similar cover-ups of torture in Vietnam.

How many journalists can you say are still fighting for the cause of the victims of war?

And for those of you who are comparing the torture and killing of soldiers with the torture of children and prisoners of war, shame on you. War is war on either side. Those children and prisoners have families too. Or have you hardened yourself so much against them that it doesn't bother you when you look at the photos or those people being tortured? That level of hatred and insensitivity is nothing new though is it? Especially when it allows you to continue believing what you want to believe.

The US talks about 'freedom' and 'liberation' and then employs methods similar to the factions it is supposedly fighting against. How does it make them better?

For those who still don't believe any torture of any kind from the 'good' side, wake up. Better yet, grow up. The US didn't get to where it is today by playing nicely.

The US defence secretary, Donald Rumsfeld, personally authorised the expansion of a special programme which ultimately led to the abuses in Abu Ghraib prison, the New Yorker magazine claims today.

The operation, which encouraged physical coercion and sexual humiliation to obtain intelligence, was known to President George Bush and fewer than 200 operatives. It was approved by the national security adviser, Condoleezza Rice, according to the report. The programme was governed by the rules: "Grab who you must. Do what you want," a former intelligence officer told the magazine. www.guardian.co.uk...

Or how about this guy. Still not patriotic or believable enough for you?

Colonel Pheneger is a highly decorated thirty year veteran who has served in various high level military posts throughout his career, including: Commander, U. S. Army Intelligence School, Director of Intelligence, U. S. Special Operations Command; Deputy Director of Intelligence, and has worked with the USSOCOM and USCENTCOM teams providing high level intelligence support. Colonel Pheneger is also a lifelong Republican

Colonel Pheneger submitted testimony asking that new Abu Ghraib documents be published and not covered up.

I'm sure this will provoke screeches of 'leftist'. Nonetheless, here it is...

The ACLU also released an Information Paper entitled "Allegations of Detainee Abuse in Iraq and Afghanistan" dated April 2, 2004, two weeks before the world saw the pictures of torture at Abu Ghraib prison. The paper outlined the status of 62 investigations of detainee abuse and detainee deaths. Cases include assaults, punching, kicking and beatings, mock executions, sexual assault of a female detainee, threatening to kill an Iraqi child to "send a message to other Iraqis," stripping detainees, beating them and shocking them with a blasting device, throwing rocks at handcuffed Iraqi children, choking detainees with knots of their scarves and interrogations at gunpoint. (emphasis mine) www.rawstory.com...

Are you really that naive to believe this isn't going on? It isn't a question of denial or saying 'yeah they killed and tortured two of ours'. Or to say, well we didn't see it so it didn't happen.

One has to protect and be vigiliant against this sort of inhumane behaviour and mentality at ALL costs. ESPECIALLY during war.

I absolutely do not believe this to be true.
Not at all. And I have yet to see any credible
information to support the title of this thread.

Originally posted by Anon4this1

Originally posted by Griff

Originally posted by Anon4this1

Links?

And really, you compare that abuse by a bunch of degenerate West Virginia hillbillies to the organised atrocities happening by radical Muslims around the world every single day.

Hey.... Thats enough right there.... Its West Virginia Appalacian Americans ...

Think about it..... why would Rumsfield give these orders? Exactly, he wouldn't.
I'm not saying it did or did not happen, just that the order and orders didn't come from Rumsfield.

What I dont understand about all this... is that after how much other corruption has been uncovered about Rumsfeld and Bush... why is it so hard to believe that torture was ordered! There are way to many blind people on ats and not enough braile in the world to open their eyes. It's beginning to be a waste of energy and time to get people to SEE anything.

Yeah, they were ordered to do whatever it took... maybe they weren't told step by step what to do... but they were given the order to do ANYTHING! And the twisted f*cks took that order and ran with it.

I think that everyone found guilty of it should be shot... screw court martials. And while we are at it... forget Impeachment... put Rummy and Dummy (Bush) into a room and let the 9/11 survivors and families have their way with them.

Rumsfeld is a sick bastard and I can see him ordering it.. heck, he would probably join in. Thanks for posting this bro.

Originally posted by thecandyman
What I dont understand about all this... is that after how much other corruption has been uncovered about Rumsfeld and Bush... why is it so hard to believe that torture was ordered!

Because no evidence has been presented indicating that they did.

If it is, then people can say 'well, what did you expect from those savages', but not until its at least presented.

Originally posted by SIRR1
How F#@**%^g dare you even post something like this!

What about the 2 US soldiers who were tortured last week.

How about their screams when the terrorists cut their genitals off while they were still alive.

The soldiers torture is fact !

Your story is bull#.

THANK YOU!!!!!

at least someone else didnt forget about those two men who were tortured last week!


and for some reason i really dont believe that any american soldier would do that to a child

As to your second link, I read it. it was an account from Abu Graib. That is one witness statement. We all know what went on there.

I disagree!!! The soldiers and civilians working there and the prisoners interred there know what went on. Everybody else is speculating, or basing their beliefs on the various reports that have filtered out. No one who was not there KNOWS what went on.

I believe we are arguing two different things:

1. That torture took place (I think this has been proven)

2. That the torture was ordered by Rumi and co. (Yet to be proven)

More to the point; realistically are we expecting this info to fall into our laps at any day? How would this ever get past those who would stop it at any costs. History will show that slippery politicians have gotten away with far more than we give them credit for.

Which is why we are (ahem) spouting on a Conspiracy board. At some point we have to stop believing what we are being spoon fed and form our own opinions about what is being said and not being said.