Pyramids at Giza were there BEFORE the Egyptians got there.

Originally posted by Cowboy1
What has always confused me is the fact that the Egyptians were so thorough in depicting everything they did regarding the way they dressed and their way of life by their engravings and pictograms on the various buildings and monuments scattered throughout Egypt but nowhere is there to be seen any evidence as to how the pyramids were built. I find this totally out of character as such fantastic achievements would have surely been depicted somewhere, which perhaps encourages the theory that they were already there.

As the magician said, "you've been watching the wrong hand."

If you go googling around, you will find a lot of links (including National Geographic ones) on the workers' city around the Giza plateau where there's a lot of ostrika (stone tablets) talking about how many loads of stone came in, how much bread was needed, complaints by the workmen, inscriptions on their tombs... tons and tons of material.

Hancock and his crew are either ignorant of it or deliberately ignore it.
Check www.touregypt.net... for the info that they give tourists. You'll see how much info and knowledge he and the others have had to ignore in order to get their ideas to work.

Originally posted by j619pinoy
If the Egyptians did build something as complex as the Pyramids with exact (or near exact) standards...then why is the head on the sphinx too small for its body?

j619pinoy,
Since Byrd didn't answer the second part, I'll give it a shot. I've done some study of the so-called "anomalies" associated with the sphinx.

The most down to Earth reason I've ever come across regarding this "small head, long body" problem is that it's being stated wrong. It's not the head that's too small, it's the body that's too large.
Turns out there is a huge semi-vertical crack running through the limestone deposits in that area (actually, like any other limestone deposits, there's quite a few cracks.) This one big crack runs right across the sphinx complex. It's visible in the wall of the sphinx enclosure (on both sides) and the explanation of the oversized body is that, when the sculptors were cutting out the form of the sphinx, they came across this vertical crack, not far from where the rear haunches of the sphinx were planned to be carved. The crack posed a risk to the rear of the statue because it was too close to the statue's end at the rear. This means the rear of the sphinx might conceuivably just fall off. So the sculptors decided to lengthen the body to get more solid rock mass behind and past the crack, which would help the rear of the sphinx remain stable. They planned already (of course) to cover the form with paving stones and mortar, so the crack wasn't going to show.
The crack is still there today for anyone to see. There's no documentation that this was the real reason for the long body, but the idea was deduced from the position of the crack versus the hypothetical position of where the haunches should be on the sphinx, if it's body was proportional to it's head, so it makes sense to me.

Also, as another poster said, the head may have been recarved some years after it was sculpted. The Egyptians weren't shy about defacing monuments to dead powerful guys to curry favor with the living powerful guys.

Harte

[edit on 4/16/2006 by Harte]

The Abydos Kings List in the Hall of Ancestors
Temple of Seti I

www.bibleman.net...
(Link is now dead-printed out the Kings List a few years back.
I'll have to surf the net to find another posted list.)


1. Meni (Mena) ADAM
2. Teti
3. Iti
4. Ita
5. Djaty
6. Mer-ba-pen
7. Semsem
8. Qebh
9. Mdw-ti-umer
10. Ka-kau
11. Khnum-netjer-n
13. Uadj-nes
14. Sen-di
14. Dja-dja-tepy
15. Neb-ka
16. Djeser-za
17. Teti
18. Z-djes
19. Nefer-ka-re
20. Snefru (Nofru) NOAH
21. Khufu (Chamu Chufu) HAM

The list goes on to list up to the 76th Pharaoh:

76. Men-maat-re (Seti I)


[edit on 16-4-2006 by lostinspace]

Here's a web site that has the Kings List of Seti I at Abydos:

www.ancientegyptonline.co.uk...

The names vary in spelling.

WATCHING

"After the sun went down, we rose and prepared for the important work of evening. The astologer (Ham) had already taken note of the sunset, but spake not ; indeed, the tremendous uncertainty overshadowing our future rendering us all silent.
The moon was at the full, and the moment of its rising would relieve our anxiety, or confirm our fears of variation. An increasing light in the east gave token of its approach ; forty drops of the clepsydra, and it should appear. Forty and three were marked before the red disk peered above the mountain crest.
We are sinking rapidly!"

-Seola

In this story the moon is described as being late in rising as per a normal cycle the inhabitants were used to. All according to the observations given to them by Seth. The story relates that the landmasses must be sinking in order to justify why the heavenly bodies are late in rising. However, I see any drop in land mass would not account for much delay in the appearance of the moon and certain stars. I would say that an axis change would definitely change timing observations seen from the earth's surface.

Originally posted by Byrd

5. The 3 major pyramids are aligned with orions belt.

No they aren't. They're a mirror image and they "fit" only if you monkey with stuff and ignore other stuff.

What "stuff" do you have to "monkey" with.

Thankyou 'Byrd' for your kind enlightenment which is much appreciated and I will endeavour to explore further sites.
However, having followed many theories over my 67 years I find it hard to believe that there is evidence in some stone tablets and old buildings that has not been introduced to the general public. I am sure Dr Hawass would have been jumping up and down exitedly by now.
Gordon Pipes lever system by which he has demonstrated that it is possible to move not only the average pyramid block (using teams of about a dozen men - divide that into the so called thousands of builders and it becomes very possible to build from all 4 sides with a number of teams placing the necessary number of blocks into place each day) but also the huge slabs (obviously requiring more men but which is quite feasible.
The theories regarding ramps, moving blocks using 'sound' and the old aliens from outer space rhubarb I will place in the 'too hard' basket along with the 'they were built as beacons', 'a huge electric generator', 'a tomb' and 'some sort of calendar' theories.
The fact is that they are there for all to see but the question as to how they were built and why remains unsolved.
I remain puzzled as to why we have not seen more descriptive evidence and as to why, after such magnificent achievements, they just returned to their normal way of life and neither built nor produced anything that even came close to these achievements in the ensuing centuries.
Whilst on this subject, I have asked before in other threads but received no replies, are there any sites containing close-up photographs of the facing stones at the top of the pyramid as I understand these to be some 3 feet wide by 8 feet tall and an inch thick which were not only highly polished but were 'glued' together and contained some inscriptions too.
Have a nice day everyone.

Originally posted by Cowboy1

I remain puzzled as to why we have not seen more descriptive evidence and as to why, after such magnificent achievements, they just returned to their normal way of life and neither built nor produced anything that even came close to these achievements in the ensuing centuries.

One might say much the same of the great European cathedrals - incredible works of craftmanship the likes of which have never been repeated. Why? Why are modern cathedrals such dull, plain, simply structures compared with the likes of Chartres - a massive structure towering above the landscape? Maybe the old cathedrals were built by aliens and we no longer have the technology to replicate them?

Chartres:-




St Mary's, San Fransisco:-

You might like to do a bit more research on that list. Here's a more accurate list of them: www.touregypt.net...

For instance, Menes was the first to unite the Upper and Lower kingdoms... he was a war leader who conquered a number of cities. This hardly fits with Adam and the garden of Eden and so forth. The oldest listed king (older than Narmer) is the predynastic king, Ka:
www.touregypt.net...

There's plenty of evidence to show that Ka wasn't the first man into the land or the first person in the land or the first human to walk the Earth. So there's no tie into Adam. And Ka predates the others by several hundred years.

Originally posted by lostinspace
The Abydos Kings List in the Hall of Ancestors
Temple of Seti I

www.bibleman.net...
(Link is now dead-printed out the Kings List a few years back.
I'll have to surf the net to find another posted list.)


1. Meni (Mena) ADAM
2. Teti
3. Iti
4. Ita
5. Djaty
6. Mer-ba-pen
7. Semsem
8. Qebh
9. Mdw-ti-umer
10. Ka-kau
11. Khnum-netjer-n
13. Uadj-nes
14. Sen-di
14. Dja-dja-tepy
15. Neb-ka
16. Djeser-za
17. Teti
18. Z-djes
19. Nefer-ka-re
20. Snefru (Nofru) NOAH
21. Khufu (Chamu Chufu) HAM

This doesn't work at all on many levels. Noah's father was Lamech and Lamech's father was Methuselah. You're trying to make Nefer-ka-re into Lamech and Z-djes into Methuselah (either that, or you're saying that the Bible lies.) Those pharoahs are found at specific places that don't match the places identified in the Bible as the homelands of Lamech and Methuselah (again, to make this work you have to say that the Bible lies.)


Methuselah lived (was not a king) for 969 years. en.wikipedia.org...

Your theory also neglects the amount of information we have on each king... how many wives they had, who their sons were (and sometimes daughters) and which of their daughters and granddaughters they married (incest was common, remember.) Their battles and major trade interactions are also recorded... and that just doesn't mesh with any of the Biblical patriarch information.

Do check your Bible again, particularly the later parts of Genesis and Exodus and Leviticus and Numbers. There's extensive geneaologies in there as well as information about the lands and cities that everyone came from.

You'll find that it really isn't a match; in fact, it's not even close.

Originally posted by Cowboy1
However, having followed many theories over my 67 years I find it hard to believe that there is evidence in some stone tablets and old buildings that has not been introduced to the general public. I am sure Dr Hawass would have been jumping up and down exitedly by now.

He can't hop up and down about every little thing that's found there... only the major discoveries. And there's volumes and volumes of material that the public isn't interested in that's found in archaeological journals (use www.scholar.google.com... and google for egyptian pharoah. The amount of material will stagger you.)

Like this page about the Princess (their term) of Aten where it shows her wearing a wig with a sidelock -- the style of the sem priests of Aten. While this is of great interest to scholars, the public has no idea about it and it's not the thing that Hawass or anyone else shouts about because the public could care less if it's a forelock or dredlocks or a sidelock : members.tripod.com...

Hancock and so forth ignore the writings of Herodotus (who wrote about Cheops and the pyramid) and other ancient sources because they don't support the Orion Belt theory. Hancock also ignores the known star maps of the sky by the ancient Egyptians that show Orion not as a single constellation but rather as two different ones.

The fact is that they are there for all to see but the question as to how they were built and why remains unsolved.

May I suggest that you start with "workers village and pyramid" on Google? Here's one such link:
news.nationalgeographic.com...

I remain puzzled as to why we have not seen more descriptive evidence and as to why, after such magnificent achievements, they just returned to their normal way of life and neither built nor produced anything that even came close to these achievements in the ensuing centuries.

Here, I think our education system is at fault because we focus on the history of certain parts of Europe and America and gloss over the rest of the world and the ancient world.

In fact, the Egyptians built huge colossi, massive temple complexes, and great cities as well as making technological and religious changes (in spite of regieme changes and other situations.) They had automated water dispensers in their temples and they invented an early form of mass production to make scarabs and amulets. They had good glassmaking skills and their faience was unsurpassed for many centuries.

They didn't show up, make pyramids, and then go collapse after all the hard work. This was a lively civilization with many cities in a land that was divided into separate kingdoms several times (including the era of the Hyksos); a civilization that lasted for over 3,000 years.

Whilst on this subject, I have asked before in other threads but received no replies, are there any sites containing close-up photographs of the facing stones at the top of the pyramid as I understand these to be some 3 feet wide by 8 feet tall and an inch thick which were not only highly polished but were 'glued' together and contained some inscriptions too.
Have a nice day everyone.

There's no original capstone to be found. I think that the information there is speculation. Based on paintings found at Abusir, Hawass believes the pyramid capstone was sheathed in gold. www.pbs.org...

The glue, I've read, is an early form of cement.

I am again indebted to you 'byrd' for your very knowledgable comments and advice. To check all the 'leads' on information will take much time, which I have at present, and I look forward to exploring some of your proposed sites.
I would have to disagree however with your comment that whereas Dr Hawass can't jump up and down over every l'ittle' thing only 'major' discoveries I would humbly suggest that discovering HOW the pyramids were indeed build would be classed as a 'major' discovery and not a minor one.
I have read Hancock, Bauval, Lerner and Von Deiniken who lend strength to the old adage that 'figures can lie and liars can figure' as some of the theories proposed by them do tend to stretch the facts to suit each of their theories. I find Gordon Pipes theory using levers to be the most genuine and practical of them all, but the question remains as to the purpose of their being built. Herodotus does indeed declare that 'they used a lifting device' which would put all 'ramp' theories into the 'out' basket. I have also read, pertaining to your information regarding evidence scattered around the buildings and various sites in Egypt, that sections of the outer casing bearing engravings (salvaged from an earthquake causing them to fall from the sides of the pyramid and some that were removed by some high-ranking chap in the 14th century) were indeed used in the building of a number of Mosques throughout Egypt and are still there to this day. It is a pity that this invaluable evidence has been destroyed like throwing the pieces of a jig-saw puzzle to the 4 winds.
I look forward to many more comments on this theme and look forward to exploring this wonderful and informative site in the future.
Have a nice day.

In his book Voyages of the Pyramid Builders [25] Boston University geology professor Robert Schoch details key anomalies in both radiocarbon studies most notably that samples taken in 1984 from the upper courses of the Great Pyramid gave upper dates of 3809 B.C. (± 160yrs), nearly 1400yrs before the time of Khufu, while the lower courses provided dates ranging from 3090-2723 B.C (± 100-400yrs) which correspond much closer to the time Khufu is believed to have reigned. Given that the data implies impossibly the pyramid was built from the top down, Dr. Schoch argues that if the information provided by the study is correct, it makes sense if it is assumed the pyramid was built and rebuilt in several stages suggesting later Pharaohs such as Khufu were only inheritors of an existing monument, not the original builders, and merely rebuilt or repaired previously constructed sections.
en.wikipedia.org...

and here's Schoch's Boston University faculty web page.
www.bu.edu...

it might not be the center of the world now, but might of been the center of the world then, the know world?

Good Evening Byrd

I may take the bait, for the sake of discussion.

And so I do not appear to come from left field on this, I'll be upfront.

The Great Pyramid was created under the instruction of the Lord God Almighty, and Enoch was the Job Site Forman, Architect, and Surveyor.

I have many reasons why I am compelled to take this position, and I trust these are reviewed and considered, prior to you putting me back into my place.

First, I have no reason to believe that the Great Pyramid is anything other than what WE have been told it is.

Isaiah makes a startling claim in an Ocracle against Eygpt. And it goes...

019:019 In that day shall there be an altar to the LORD in the midst of the land of Egypt, and a pillar at the border thereof to the LORD.

019:020 And it shall be for a sign and for a witness unto the LORD of hosts in the land of Egypt: for they shall cry unto the LORD because of the oppressors, and he shall send them a saviour, and a great one, and he shall deliver them.

019:021 And the LORD shall be known to Egypt, and the Egyptians shall know the LORD in that day, and shall do sacrifice and oblation; yea, they shall vow a vow unto the LORD, and perform it.

019:022 And the LORD shall smite Egypt: he shall smite and heal it: and they shall return even to the LORD, and he shall be intreated of them, and shall heal them.

019:023 In that day shall there be a highway out of Egypt to Assyria, and the Assyrian shall come into Egypt, and the Egyptian into Assyria, and the Egyptians shall serve with the Assyrians.

019:024 In that day shall Israel be the third with Egypt and with Assyria, even a blessing in the midst of the land:

019:025 Whom the LORD of hosts shall bless, saying, Blessed be Egypt my people, and Assyria the work of my hands, and Israel mine inheritance.

Now, the Bolded matter speaks directly to this topic.

Can you tell me, what is in the Midst of Eygpt, while also being at the border thereof? Sort of a confusing statement until it sinks in.

The Midst of Egypt today, is the Giza Plateau, but it is no where near the borders, but then, this is the Lord of Hosts speaking and during that time, there were two Egypts, Upper and Lower Egypts. Do we know where their borders where? Hmmm, well, Imagine that. The Giza Plateau was the Borderline of Upper and Lower Egypt.

Now, what did the Lord of Host say??

There shall be an alter to the Lord. That is plainly understood and clear.

And He goes on to say a Pillar, which is curious. What does this mean a pillar? Well the Chaldean indicates this is a "Something Stationed", "Something Monumental" both coming from the Prime natsab "to station".

So we have an Alter that is a stationed, (or has been specifically placed), Monumental Item.

And it's function again? To be a SIGN AND A WITTNESS UNTO THE LORD OF HOSTS IN THE LAND OF EGYPT.

Now if Cheops or Kufu fills the bill, then I am a monkeys Uncle.

I threw in the rest of the Oracle for one reason. We need to be clear of onething. Egypt is HIS Blessed People!

As an side, have you ever wondered why Egypt is the only place on Earth that has always been? Despite bowing in submission to various conquers, Egypt has never lost it's identiy. It is as it always has been. Egypt

It also bears to note that the initial opening line of this refers to "In that Day". That Day is during this time. The End Times of this Earth Age.

Now, it is also important for those to consider where the Giza Plateau sits, in respects to the Earth itself. I never heard anyone suggest, the Great Pyramid sits in the center of the earth, as some have argued against correctly, BUT.......

The 30th merdian which dissects the Great Pyramid happens to be the only spot on earth that has more land mass than anyother point on the earth, compared against a land mass vs water mass scale, so in essence, the implication by those who do not comprehend this, is that the Great Pyramid is in the center of the earth. Misleading to be correct, but how many know the truth behind that implication? No many, I presume. See the Following

William Petrie another pyramidologist showed that the meridian line that runs due north and south and bisects the base of the pyramid, contains more land and less sea than any other. He also showed that the latitude, 30 degrees north also contains more land and less sea than any other. Thus the Great Pyramid can be said to be at the very centre of the land mass of the Earth.

Throw this in, and if becomes even more interesting

Professor Piazzi Smyth one of the first of the recent pyramid investigators made some extraordinary discoveries about the absolute sighting and location of the Great Pyramid. He found that the latitude of its site 30 degrees north, is exactly one third of the distance from the Equator to the North Pole. Placed at the northern extremity of a range of hills commanding the entire plain of Lower Egypt, the Great Pyramid stands at the very centre of Egypt at a place that could also be described as the centre of the world.

Then consider this.

In 1868 the chief hydrographer to the United States Coast Survey, Mr. Henry Mitchell was impressed with the regularity of the circular coastline of Lower Egypt and wondered if he were to complete the circle, where the centre of it would fall, it fell, as we might expect, at the very site of the Great Pyramid.

Coincidences?? No.

Next, I Would love to have the ability to refer to some lectures in respect to the Pyramid, and it's Mathematics, and alignment, so the doubtful, which are many, could have a clearer understanding of the importantance of this, but due to a Death, those lectures are temporaryly down.

Now I am likely the worst to pickup on this theme, but here it goes anyways.

According to the Books of Moses, there where definately two items created under the supervision or according to the instructions provided by God. The Unit of measure was called the a Biblical Inch, which today, is slightly largers than a Imperial Inch, (by some measure of the width of a strand of hair).

Noah was instructed to complete the Ark, according to this unit of measure, and the Israelites also where instructed to complete the Ark of the Covenant using this measure.

Another constuction using this was the Temple in Jeursalam.

The point of this is that, this seems to be God's Measuring Stick, and things God have told man to build have been constucted using this measure.

Some Egyptiologists have offered the following which is strange, and un-nerving for those who support Kufu and/or Cheops built the temple.

Using the Biblical Inch, which they call the Pyramidal Inch, they have some fantastic results.

"There are 36,525 Pyramid Inches in the designed perimeter of the Great Pyramid, 36,525 just happens to be the number of days in one hundred years."

Quite an interesting observation alone, yet wait for the rest.

"If one looks down on the Great Pyramid from above it is clear that its base is very near a perfect square. Looking at any one side is like looking at any other side. One of the characteristics of a side of the pyramid is that at its base it is not flat but slightly concave. Further that concavity is not circular or cylindrical but triangular. It is an exceedingly flat or low triangle with its tip truncated or flattened out. Thus if you were to state the length of any side you could say that there were two or maybe three measurements you could use:

1. The direct, straight line, measurement corner to corner. This is the base of the triangle just described.
2. The actual length across the rock surface. This is the top and sides of the triangle just described.
3. The theoretical length of the sides of the triangle before it became flattened out or truncated.

The shortest of these sides is of course the corner to corner measurement and irrespective of what unit of measure you use will always exist in a specific ratio with the other two dimensions. The ratios are:

1. 1.000000000
2. 1.000038331
3. 1.000046544

All of which is pretty boring, insignificant, or just plain useless. That is until you convert the first unit to the length of the Mean Equinoctial Tropical Year in days - namely 365.242 days.

Whereupon - ABRACADABRA - The other two dimensions instantly become:

A. The Sidereal Year or the duration of the Earths Solar revolution in days - 365.256 days.
B. The Anomalistic Year or the duration of the Earths Orbital revolution in days. - 365.259 days."

And there is More

"1. The direct corner to corner length of a side (A to E) is 26524.2 Pyramid Inches, which is precisely 100 times the length of a Mean Solar Tropical Year (Equinoctial)
2. The indented measurement of a side (ABDE) is 36525.6 Pyramid Inches whish is precisely 100 times the number of days in a Sidereal Year. (The Earths Solar Revolution)
3. The theoretical length of the declination of a side (ACE) is 36525.9 Pyramid Inches which is precisely 100 times the number of days in the Anomalistic Year (The Earth's Orbital Revolution)

The shape of the sides of the pyramid are therefore describing to us a Tropical Year, a Sidereal Year and Anomalistic Year in days. Thus in the measure of a year, which has to be a constant by any standards for those living on Planet Earth we have a measure of distance and in that measure of distance a unit of measure of distance. A unit of measure that has traversed the centuries, free from any of the corrosive activities of Man, a unit of measure implicitly contained in a ratio, and a ratio confirmed in each of the four sides of the pyramid. Converting this unit of measure to the Pyramid or Primitive Inch we find:

A. The Tropical Year as 365.242 days is represented by 36524.2 Pyramid Inches
B. The Sidereal Year as 365.256 days is represented by 36525.6 Pyramid Inches
C. The Anomalistic Year as 365.259 days is represented by 36525.9 Pyramid Inches."

So we spoke to the Location, and we see some interesting mathematics that far exceed the abilities ANYONE ON THIS EARTH TODAY. How about the Angles??

Now, if one is to accomplish a scale model of the Globe there is a need for some precise Angles.

This was interesting.

The design of the Pyramid was such that was able to model a globe. This may only occur at a precise pyramid slope angle of 51 degrees 51 minutes 14 seconds, the Great Pyramid has this very same slope angle. This is because the ratio of the pyramid height to its base perimeter is exactly twice pi. Put another way as the height of the pyramid is to its perimeter at its base then so is the radius of a circle to the circle's circumference. This ratio can only be achieved at the exact angle of 51 degrees 51 minutes 14 seconds.

It is strange that SATAN and his influences since, have never accomplished what the Great Pyramid detailed. Again, A Coincidence? I do not believe in Coincidence.

Here's more

Wm. R. Fix mades some fantastic discoveries about the size of the Earth and the size of the Pyramid.

"Using the latest Geodetic survey figures he has discovered that the Great Pyramid is a scale model of the Earth at a ratio of 1: 43,200. He has done this by taking into account the estimated size of the Pyramid's base. A factor apparently overlooked by previous studies. What he has found is that this 1:43,200 ratio is true to an accuracy of one or two millimetres in 480 feet, the height of the pyramid. He has shown that not only is the height of the Pyramid in direct relation to the Polar Radius of the Earth by this ratio but also the perimeter at the sockets at the base has the same ratio to the world's best estimates of the circumference of the Earth at the Equator."

This is detailed in his Pyramid Odyssey

There are many other points that could be noted.

The Astrological Alignments are interesting and the connection with Thuben and Sirrus very telling.

The Monumental Alignments are quite unique as well. Take a straight edge from Bethlehem, and see what it aligns with in the Great Pyramid. Likewise, Stonehedge has an neat alignment with the Pyramid.

The Clock the Great Pyramid seems to be. This is strictly a Pyramid Inch topic, dealing with the inner passages and the nearing of stepping upto the King's Coffin and the end of the journey in the Pyramid. We are but Inches from the End today.

And to close this down, I would like to note a Personage, who was refered to as a companion of Horus. There was the Preist, Ra Ta, and there was a Woman named Isis. There was also a Architect, Mathematician, Suveyor, Astrologer named Hermes.

Disregard the Pagan views noted in Roman and Greek Lieology, and dwell on this.

Antoine Faivre, in The Eternal Hermes has pointed out that Hermes has a place in the Islamic tradition, though his name does not appear in the Qur'an. Hagiographers and chroniclers of the first centuries of the Islamic Hegira quickly identified Hermes with Idris, the nabi of surahs 19.57; 21.85, whom the Arabs also identify with Enoch (cf. Genesis 5.18-24). Indris/Hermes is called "Thrice Wise,"( Hermes Trismegistus) because he was threefold: the first of the name, comparable to Thoth, was a "civilizing hero," an initiator into the mysteries of the divine science and wisdom that animate the world; he carved the principles of this sacred science in hieroglyphs. The second Hermes, in Babylon, was the initiator of Pythagoras. The third Hermes was the first teacher of Alchemy.

First, I noted I felt Enoch was the Foreman of the Jobsite, and secondly, he constructed it as the Lord of Hosts requested.

I think this should be enough for your to review at onetime, and again hope that some of this perspective is at least understood, even if it may not align with your impressions.

I will admit I have a Bias, being a Christian, but I am not closed minded enough to dismiss ideas and concepts of facts. I hope to inspire an insightful response, and look forward to reviewing your remarks.

Have a good day Byrd

Ciao

Shane

Originally posted by Cowboy1
I would have to disagree however with your comment that whereas Dr Hawass can't jump up and down over every l'ittle' thing only 'major' discoveries I would humbly suggest that discovering HOW the pyramids were indeed build would be classed as a 'major' discovery and not a minor one.

Doing some review for a post here, I found the following site that was speaking to Raising Heavy Items.

There where comments made, in respect to some drawings someone saw, that seemed to imply a Kite and Lines had been used to raise Blocks for some ancient construction. I do not know exactly what or where they saw it, but the Link seems to imply it was quite easy, and the Pyramid would not have been difficult at all.

pr.caltech.edu...

How Many Caltechers Does It Take to Raise An Egyptian Obelisk?

The world may soon find out.


One could argue that there aren’t enough Techers on Earth to raise a modest-sized obelisk without power equipment. After all, didn’t it require thousands of workers to put the obelisks and pyramids of ancient Egypt into place? Maybe not.


The task may have been accomplished by a dozen or so people flying the stones into position with a kite. A business consultant from Reseda has proposed this theory, and a few Techers are helping to demonstrate that it’s a possibility.


This summer the team of Techers and friends raised a three-and-a-half-ton obelisk in 25 seconds, with reporters and cameramen documenting the feat. Now they plan to build larger obelisks to demonstrate that even the mammoth 300-ton monuments of ancient Egypt—not to mention the far less massive building blocks of Egypt’s 90-odd pyramids—could have been raised with a fraction of the effort that modern Egyptologists have assumed.


It goes on.

I hope you enjoy it Cowboy 1

Ciao

Shane

Originally posted by Byrd

For instance, Menes was the first to unite the Upper and Lower kingdoms... he was a war leader who conquered a number of cities.

Originally posted by lostinspace
The Abydos Kings List in the Hall of Ancestors
Temple of Seti I


20. Snefru (Nofru) NOAH
21. Khufu (Chamu Chufu) HAM

This doesn't work at all on many levels. Noah's father was Lamech and Lamech's father was Methuselah. You're trying to make Nefer-ka-re into Lamech and Z-djes into Methuselah (either that, or you're saying that the Bible lies.) Those pharoahs are found at specific places that don't match the places identified in the Bible as the homelands of Lamech and Methuselah (again, to make this work you have to say that the Bible lies.)


Do check your Bible again, particularly the later parts of Genesis and Exodus and Leviticus and Numbers. There's extensive geneaologies in there as well as information about the lands and cities that everyone came from.

This King's List of Seti I definitely cannot be validated by any biblical account because the scriptures don't name any ruling Pharaoh. It just refers to all of them as Pharoah. The only thing that is certain is that the Egyptians desended from Ham's son Mizraim per Genesis 50:11
-"...This is a grievous mourning to the Egyptians: wherefore the name of it was called Abel-Mizraim, which is beyond Jordan."

So whose to say who really Menes really is? He is the mythical king who started it all for the Egyptians by making a united kingdom. I've read that possibly Menes represents a combined effort of previous kings to start the Egyptian empire.

Ham is also connected to Egypt by these scriptures:
Psalms 105:23,27
Psalms 106:21,22
"Egypt is the Land of Ham"

Throw Snefru and Khufu out the window but keep Ham in the picture on this interesting thread. I believe Ham knew something special about a difference between the pre-flood heavenly skys and the post-flood heavenly skys. Somehow his children picked up on his grandfather legends and expanded it to a greater level.

Here's another thought. What if the Book of Enoch is really authentic and really written in the ancient age of Enoch, before the Deluge. The angel Uriel tells these things to Enoch:
Chapter LXXIX
2. "Thou seest the sun, moon, and those which conduct the stars of heaven, which cause all their operations, seasons, and arrivals to return."
3. "In the days of sinners the years shall be shortened."
5. "In those days the fruits of the earth shall be late, and not flourish in their season; and in their season the fruits of the trees shall be withholden."
6. "The moon shall change its laws, and not be seen at its proper period...Heaven shall shine more than when illuminated by the orders of light."

Interesting that Enoch lived a short life compared to his contemporaries with only 365 years and then God took him. The revolutions it takes earth to complete one solar circuit

Originally posted by lostinspaceThis King's List of Seti I definitely cannot be validated by any biblical account because the scriptures don't name any ruling Pharaoh. It just refers to all of them as Pharoah. The only thing that is certain is that the Egyptians desended from Ham's son Mizraim per Genesis 50:11

Which doesn't match any of the facts.

You give the lineage there -- and those are all father-to-son. The Pharoah lineage is most definately not father-to-son. In some cases the line dies out and it goes to a brother (the Bible has a long genaeology where they list those people and all their sons). Occasionally it goes to an uncle.

Check the data on the pharoahs and you'll see that there's no way they could possibly be the lineage you're trying to claim for them.

Also -- the written records of their civilizatin stretch back more than 7,000 years. There's no mention of a flood that wiped out everyone so that the world had to be rebuilt during that time.

Furthermore, many of them are dark-skinned Africans.

So whose to say who really Menes really is? He is the mythical king who started it all for the Egyptians by making a united kingdom. I've read that possibly Menes represents a combined effort of previous kings to start the Egyptian empire.

But you're trying to make him into Adam and there are obviously living people before him. Furthermore, the genaeologies tie a number of the people in the lineage with specific places in the Middle East. In order to make this "work" you have to say that the Bible lies about the ages that the patriarchs in that lineage lived (the lengths of the reign and ages are known for those pharoahs) and then you have to rename half of Egypt to get it to work, giving it names of ancient towns that are elsewhere.

...and pretend that the Egyptian hieroglyphs are also Hebrew letters.

That's more of a stretch than any Biblical student or scholar is going to accept.

Throw Snefru and Khufu out the window but keep Ham in the picture on this interesting thread.

Why? We've got artifacts and many items from their reigns, including lists of who they married and who they had contact with. We also have references to them in other countries.

I believe Ham knew something special about a difference between the pre-flood heavenly skys and the post-Tflood heavenly skys. Somehow his children picked up on his grandfather legends and expanded it to a greater level.

Are you aware that the Sumerians had sky maps and the Egyptians painted pictures of the sky during the time that you are trying to call "pre-flood"? The stars haven't changed.

Here's another thought. What if the Book of Enoch is really authentic and really written in the ancient age of Enoch, before the Deluge....

Interesting that Enoch lived a short life compared to his contemporaries with only 365 years and then God took him. The revolutions it takes earth to complete one solar circuit

Again, you have the conundrum that if that's true and the Bible is true, then the Earth and all traces of ancient history were created by God, who is the Great Father Of Lies... because the records from other people and other lands and from inside Israel done by Biblical archaeologists are then all wrong.

The findings of the Biblical archaeologists don't support the "Lineage of Noah = the pharoahs" concept.

Originally posted by Shane
The Great Pyramid was created under the instruction of the Lord God Almighty, and Enoch was the Job Site Forman, Architect, and Surveyor.

That's not going to work, either, unless you reinterpret most of the Bible (sorry if I sound contentious here... I'm in a hurry and certainly don't mean to sound rude.)

"Pillar" means "column" according to the Blue Letter Bible and everyone knew what a column was (same thing it means today.) Although the Giza plateau is on the border, the temples around it and the references in the workshops (the ones recording the delivery of stones and so forth) don't support the idea that it was being built for "one god."

The Egyptians were fiercely pantheistic. They actively revolted against being forced into worshipping Aten and not the other gods back when Akenatun tried it. The farmers of the area and the city inhabitants wouldn't have run off to build a structure to Yahweh (whose practices were jarringly out of tune with their culture). Nor would any biblical prophet have stood calmly by as the entire workforce of his temple took off holidays to celebrate the rising of Osiris and other important festivals (which are mentioned in the stuff that they find in the worker cities.

Isaiah served the Judaic kings, Uzziah (or Azariah), Jotham, Ahaz, and Hezekiah and is dated to approximately 740 BC.

That's 1200 years AFTER the pyramids were built.

The 30th merdian which dissects the Great Pyramid happens to be the only spot on earth that has more land mass than anyother point on the earth, compared against a land mass vs water mass scale, so in essence, the implication by those who do not comprehend this, is that the Great Pyramid is in the center of the earth. Misleading to be correct, but how many know the truth behind that implication?

Remember that meridians were "invented" in the 1600's or so. You've got a "cart before the horse" here.

William Petrie another pyramidologist showed that the meridian line that runs due north and south and bisects the base of the pyramid, contains more land and less sea than any other. He also showed that the latitude, 30 degrees north also contains more land and less sea than any other. Thus the Great Pyramid can be said to be at the very centre of the land mass of the Earth.

I think you'll find that isn't true. And Petrie has been very much discounted by the archaeologists of the time and by everyone since then. He was a terrible scholar.

According to the Books of Moses, there where definately two items created under the supervision or according to the instructions provided by God. The Unit of measure was called the a Biblical Inch, which today, is slightly largers than a Imperial Inch, (by some measure of the width of a strand of hair).

Could you cite a source here?

Noah was instructed to complete the Ark, according to this unit of measure, and the Israelites also where instructed to complete the Ark of the Covenant using this measure.

Cubits, yes. The instructions are given in cubits. Can you show where they're converted to inches and that these inches are much older than the Ark references...?

Some Egyptiologists have offered the following which is strange, and un-nerving for those who support Kufu and/or Cheops built the temple.

Uhm, it wasn't the Egyptologists offering this. It was the Spiritualists.

More later. Must run.

Originally posted by lostinspace

Here's another thought. What if the Book of Enoch is really authentic and really written in the ancient age of Enoch, before the Deluge. The angel Uriel tells these things to Enoch:
Chapter LXXIX
2. "Thou seest the sun, moon, and those which conduct the stars of heaven, which cause all their operations, seasons, and arrivals to return."
3. "In the days of sinners the years shall be shortened."
5. "In those days the fruits of the earth shall be late, and not flourish in their season; and in their season the fruits of the trees shall be withholden."
6. "The moon shall change its laws, and not be seen at its proper period...Heaven shall shine more than when illuminated by the orders of light."

Interesting that Enoch lived a short life compared to his contemporaries with only 365 years and then God took him. The revolutions it takes earth to complete one solar circuit

Pretty good thought, but YOU must attempt to understand something.

Genesis 5:24 And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took
him.

Where is it, that you expect Enoch, learnt what he has been attributed to have written?

It was after he walked with God.
After his 365.242 Years of living with his family.

Enoch, who is unlike all the other decendants of Seth, has no, "and he died" notation behind his name. Of course, as YOU have, one can assume it implied he died, but there is much more evidence to the contrary.

Simply review the Genesis account, and you can find the following is clear.
Noah was born 434 Years after Enoch was born. (Do the Math).

Not only this, Noah was 500 when he had three sons, so for sake of this reply, we now have 934 Years between the Birth of Enoch and Noah having those 3 sons.

And it is here, the importance of this comes through. Noah spoke to, and discussed the events that would come, with Enoch. You can use the links to review the commentary.

From the Book of Enoch Chapters 15 thru 17.

www.sacred-texts.com...
www.sacred-texts.com...
www.sacred-texts.com...

Noah seeks Enoch, talks to Enoch, and Enoch speaks to God on Noah's behalf.

Then we see, "And in those days the word of God came unto me, and He said unto me: 'Noah, thy lot has come up before Me, a lot without blame, a lot of love and uprightness." (Enoch 17:1)

And this is just the tip of this matter my friend. Consider the Islamic references and we find Enoch is Hermes (or Thoth in Egypt), and as I contended previously was the tool God used to construct the Great Pyramid. (See my previous Post on this)

So, it is misleading to suggest Enoch only lived 365 Years and Died. He had to be alive to a ripe old age of 900 ++ anyways in order to address Noah

Then we have the other side, where some Christains believe Enoch may be one of the two wittness we all await for. It is possible, since as Enoch, only two others could be included. Moses was never found, despite searchs by the Israelites, and Ezekial flew away in a Highly Polished Bronze Vehilce described as a Wheel. These three alone, have this in common. No physical death recorded.

But you are having good thoughts and points to make LOSTINSPACE.

Have a good day

Ciao

Shane

Originally posted by Byrd

Originally posted by Shane
The Great Pyramid was created under the instruction of the Lord God Almighty, and Enoch was the Job Site Forman, Architect, and Surveyor.

That's not going to work, either, unless you reinterpret most of the Bible (sorry if I sound contentious here... I'm in a hurry and certainly don't mean to sound rude.)

More later. Must run.

Thanks for your thoughts Byrd

I do not take what you offered as Rude. If you are lacking "time" then this is the wrong topic for you right now, since it truely is a topic of time. Past, present and future.

So in defesne of my assertion, I offer this.

You have noted Pillar, is exactly that, and I would agree, if the Chaldean word natsa was the word used in Isaiah 19:19.

Natsa means "to station", both literally and figuratively, ie appointed, deputy, erect, establish, lay (as in layout), officer, pillar, present, to make stand.

But since the word use is matstsebah, which means "something stationed", (as in a memorial or stone), and we all ready have the memorial or stone identified as an Alter, there is no sense in misspeaking this verse.

There is an Alter in the Midst, "something stationed" at the borders there of. It is not denoting two seperate items. Just the Great Pyramid alone.

Your confirmation of the dating of Isaiah's service is quite accurate. It should also be noted this Oracle against Egypt, is a inditement of their ways as well as prophesy of what they will return to. The Lord of Hosts.

So, I agree 100% on what you noted the Egyptians views BECAME in respects to Worshiping. Isaiah 19 covered this clearly.

This is mostly due to the satanic influences which took place in the days of Noah. The Book of Enoch goes to great descriptive lenghts to express this clearly what these Fallen did. Deciet, Deception and Confusion, along with Vainty, Pride, and Idol Worship.

it's no wonder the Egyptians revolted for this god or that diety, but again, what else can you expect from them.

You also noted "Remember that meridians were "invented" in the 1600's or so. You've got a "cart before the horse" here."

And this is part of the point Byrd. 10000 years ago, (just to pick a date), the constructor of the Great Pyramid placed this exactly there. In the today, there is no other location on earth, that this could be accomplished. The exact center of the land mass of the Globe is the exact placement or matstsebah of the Great Pyramid. Again, is this a coincidence?

www.europa.com...

Sorry but this was the best Map I could pull "QUICKLY" that noted specific to the Great Pyramid. You can see, North to South is truly covering a lot of land mass, and likewise, East to West.

(Although I would like to have some indication of what the lattitude that runs thru Alaska to the far East portion of the old USSR would be. This looks like a lot of land mass as well. But it still looks close, since East covers from China thru the Mideast, across the top of Africa, and thru the I southern States)

You noted "I think you'll find that isn't true. And Petrie has been very much discounted by the archaeologists of the time and by everyone since then. He was a terrible scholar."

I think you would have been correct, if you used Petrie's own words.

"The Father of William Flinders Petrie (the Father of Modern Egyptology) was a frequent quest at the home of Piazzi Smyth, and may have even come close to marrying Smyth's daughter. He did in fact meet and apparently court the woman he would marry in their home. Furthermore, Petrie wrote in his "Seventy years in Archaeology" (1932):

… A new stir arose when one day I brought back from Smith's bookstall, in 1866, a volume by Piazzi Smyth, Our Inheritance in the Great Pyramid. The views, in conjunction with his old friendship for the author, strongly attracted my father, and for some years I was urged on in what seemed so enticing a field of coincidence. I little thought how, fifteen years later, I should reach the "ugly little fact which killed the beautiful theory"; but it was this interest which led my father to encourage me to go out and do the survey of the Great Pyramid; of that, later on.

By this, what Petrie means is that he was influenced by Smyth's work, but latter scientifically disproved some of his theories. It was actually Petrie who first coined the term, "pyramidiot" to describe what he saw as a quasi-religious cult."

I understand what it is that you are implying Byrd. Although I have not found myself, what "That Ugly Little Fact" maybe, I have presumed it reflects the Star Alignment of the 2400 BC dates, when his intent was to prove an Older Construction.

I like noted, I am not closed minded, and if evidence is offered to the contrary, I will review. But is this evidence or the arguements of those who have reputations at stake, or even one who was discouraged when faced with a Fact against his theory?

My use of a Unit of measure may have been hasty of me. I presumed one discussing this topic would have known this reference, and I apologize, for not detailing this and making this Unit of Measure clear.

Your indication of a Cubit measure is 100% Byrd.

Pyramid Inch = 1.0011 present inches, and 1.0010846752 British Inches.
Pyramid Cubit or Sacred Cubit = 25 pyramid inches.

So I end this here, in respects to support for my view. With everything that can be said about this topic, it is with confidence, The Great Pyramid is Unique above all other such constructions. No Egyptian has ever able to duplicate this, and to this day, No One have. Is it difficult then, not to consider options outside of what Idol Worshippers and petty dieties and godlike bootlickers have pushed down our throats. They are quicker to dismiss, than they are to offer evidence.

I just wish to find the truth, and as Mulder was fond of noting, the Truth is out there.

Have a good day Byrd, and thanks for your response.

Ciao Shane