There Are No Aliens Abducting Us

When 3 people see someone in Texas kill another person, the death penalty is expedited.

3 people see someone kill someone in Texas, the eye witnesses assure that the person who was seen killing will be dead within 3 years.

millions see arial objects doing what manmade objects can't do and it is not credible.

Alien abductions real?

Only in the subconscious mind?

conscious mind = 2,000 sparks of electricity being shared between brain cells per second.

subconscious mind = 400,000,000,000 sparks of electricity being shared between brain cells per second.

Which contains more truth?

All sensory input from all your senses first gets introduced to the subconscious mind.

What makes it to the conscious mind?

Your cells decide. Their primary command: "Self Preserve"

Self = me me me
Pre = Before, prior to
Serve = to aide, to care for, to love, to reverence, to communicate

Fear the unknown? Fear it enough and you'll never understand what you don't know, but you'll know it regardless if you choose to be conscious of you knowing it or not!





[edit on 29-12-2005 by Esoteric Teacher]

Alien abducting us and do the same thing we do to lab rats and animal. testing chemical stuff or new type of medisn, we har lab rats for them, pick one up and do the testing. and then let them go agen.. thats there reasion they take us

I gotta say with things like Travis Walton's experience and many others...it's very hard to say no aliens are 'abducting us'..obviously personal experience beats all, but even something in comparison like cow mutilations..there are pictures out there showing their entire hollow missing..and I don't think an animal can do that with it's teeth

for me it's not the question of if, but who and why

Originally posted by chinabean
quit seeing 90 and start seeing 360.

chinabean, I think you will find that most who subscribe to VTC's belief started off their foray into UFO culture as believers in the extraterrestrial school of thought. With serious consideration, many problems arise with this belief system and cause some to doubt it. VTC is not saying that these beings don't manifest, but rather that their origin may be much closer to home. Reading John A. Keels magnum opus on UFO's (Operation Trojan Horse) is very illuminating.

I would say that most who have come to VTC's conclusions are seeing 360 (maybe 720?).

Wow Beelzebubba - thanks for the back-up.

Very true, I did arrive at this idea (it is only an idea) after many years of learning, studying, being interested in UFOs & aliens and never even considering the sorts of things I have typed about here.

Like I said: you need at least a passing knowledge of certain other apparently unrelated fields in order to be able to tackle this theory. Certain posters have evidently not got to grips with it for this very reason.

Unplugged- I did not suggest that people "dream" the abduction experience. I stated explicitly and in caps that the abduction experience is very real; but as our good friend's sig reads: what is reality?

And to Chinabean - A: What? B: Are you THE Chinabean? Cos I'm THE Victor the Cleaner. You don't sound like the Chinabean, but you have come up with some waffle in your time so I can't be sure.

Apologies if it's not you, Chinabean is an old internet buddy of mine from a different forum.

Also thanks to the cowboy who doth have long hair for the heads-up on electromagnetism. Although aware of its effects and several experiments revolving around a theme of hauntings and ghosts I was never aware of an abduction experiment - very very interesting and helpful - thanks.

I am currently putting together an essay of sorts on the subject, I am trying to blag a sit-down with one of my friends' fathers who is a top Jungian Analyst here in the UK so that perhaps I might run one or two things by him (amongst other bits n pieces) regarding archetypal motifs in abduction lore.

I will try and post it on here with a blue flashing light when it is done, it seems two or three of you would be interested. I do however work etc. and so finding time is easier said than done expecially when i don't have my own PC...

...which explains why I may not be around for a while so don't think I'm rude if I don't reply to something you may post hereafter.


Thanks all,

Be in touch,






V

Originally posted by longhaircowboy
There is a feeling among certain scientists that electromagnetic waves can be used to influence our brain waves. One, a Dr. Perssinger(can't remember the school) has conducted experiments using volunteers and was able to stimulate their brains and make them think they had been abducted. Apparently he thinks that earths magnetic fields may have a similar effect. Sorry thats all I remember but maybe it will help.
Keep on lookin for the truth.

Great post!

The conjuring of phantasmagorical beings is, to my mind, directly linked to the earths magnetic fields. The earth is a living organism, conscious and aware. Study of the 'Old Straight Tracks' (Ley Lines) as discovered in England by Alfred Hopkins lead to some startling conclusions. Look for meridians that show a high number of hauntings, UFO's, mystery creatures, poltergeist activity. You will find that the large percentage of them occur in lines that run across the globe. Sightings re-occur in the same areas as well.

Read up on dowsing. I cannot understand why dowsers are not called in to areas of supernatural happenings to determine if there is a current of earth-force running beneath the ground.

(By the way, B!+chin' Avatar cowboy. Jonah Hex, that's one mean hombre!)

Originally posted by Victor the Cleaner
Wow Beelzebubba - thanks for the back-up.

Very true, I did arrive at this idea (it is only an idea) after many years of learning, studying, being interested in UFOs & aliens and never even considering the sorts of things I have typed about here.

Like I said: you need at least a passing knowledge of certain other apparently unrelated fields in order to be able to tackle this theory. Certain posters have evidently not got to grips with it for this very reason.

Unplugged- I did not suggest that people "dream" the abduction experience. I stated explicitly and in caps that the abduction experience is very real; but as our good friend's sig reads: what is reality?

And to Chinabean - A: What? B: Are you THE Chinabean? Cos I'm THE Victor the Cleaner. You don't sound like the Chinabean, but you have come up with some waffle in your time so I can't be sure.

Apologies if it's not you, Chinabean is an old internet buddy of mine from a different forum.

Also thanks to the cowboy who doth have long hair for the heads-up on electromagnetism. Although aware of its effects and several experiments revolving around a theme of hauntings and ghosts I was never aware of an abduction experiment - very very interesting and helpful - thanks.

I am currently putting together an essay of sorts on the subject, I am trying to blag a sit-down with one of my friends' fathers who is a top Jungian Analyst here in the UK so that perhaps I might run one or two things by him (amongst other bits n pieces) regarding archetypal motifs in abduction lore.

I will try and post it on here with a blue flashing light when it is done, it seems two or three of you would be interested. I do however work etc. and so finding time is easier said than done expecially when i don't have my own PC...

...which explains why I may not be around for a while so don't think I'm rude if I don't reply to something you may post hereafter.


Thanks all,

Be in touch,






V

what are you talking about? i don't know you?
waffle? what? what other forum are you talking about?

Yo Vic- I couldnt leave ya with what I posted. Just didnt seem right. so I took my tired old brain on a ride. Dr. Michael Persinger works at Laurentian University in Behavioural Neuroscience. Hopefully that will be of more help. I dont have time for any more as I spend the majority of my time working to prove the physical reality of UFOs. I leave the contact and abduction to others.
And thanks BB Your Avatar rocks too.
And we have similar taste in music.

Great post Esoteric.. you made an interesting point there, using it as my sig if ya don't mind

Originally posted by Victor the Cleaner
it makes no obvious sense, the characters in it (aliens) can transmit their thoughts ie. you can understand them without talking with them, there are overwhelming emotive presences, things impossibly change from one second to the next etc. it makes no objective, material-world sense.

On the contrary, it makes obvious sense to me. Maybe not material world sense, but to think that the material world is everything, would be a sore miscalculation. The 'emotive presences' and 'telepathy' fits perfectly, if greys were spiritual beings.

If might not make any sense to someone who hasn't experienced much in a spiritual sense.

[edit on 29/12/05 by SteveR]

I beleive in Aliens, but not abductions...

That was a good movie. I think it was called the Cleaner, right? I think the guy is french also. Vallee is french too, right? I really like the guys thinking. But I think that many people state as the truth what they wish to be the truth. It is very, well, romantic to believe the fairytales. The french are very romantic people. Not that I have a problem with that or with the french. This whole reality thing just ruins all those romantic feelings. Same thing with the Christians. They will just keep on believing what they wish to be true because reality just messes up all those other wonderful feelings we've cultivated.

Could anyone on here relate to that idea? Or is everyone firmly down with the "Space aliens from far-off galaxies in hi-tec ships are here to reap our oil/ souls/ DNA" agenda?

In order to support your claim of " There Are No Aliens Abducting Us", you'd have to at least attempt to discredit some of the more supported abduction accounts.

For example, the Hill Case, one of the first, best documented, and simply amazing cases, has a lot going for it. The Hills were respected. There is radar confirmation along with the sighting. There is military interest. The psychiatrist examining the case was one of THE most top men in the field, and former military physician as well. The starmap drawn by Betty under hypnosis not only matches a (only later identified) constellation, but even the COLORS of the stars match what Betty gave (all yellow suns).

This is but ONE case out of many that have more than just eyewitness support. To back up your assumption, one must assume you either have substantial explanations to refute these claims, or that you are going into this with a blind assumption and already decided viewpoint.

The idea of aliens visiting the Earth is not a "crazy" idea. It can be supported by evidence. Just examine cases like Roswell or Rendlesham. Here we have documented military activity regarding an unknown. In Roswell, we have documentation of numerous coverup attempts, changed stories, and even the current official statement which completely contradicts the facts, (i.e. the USAF states people say anthropomorphic dummies, not aliens....yet these dummies weren't used until the early 50's, the Roswell crash was in '47.....oops).

Indeed, the case AGAINST alien visitation is the most difficult one to take up... So, what evidence leads you to conclude that ALL abduction accounts are bogus? What evidence allows you to dismiss even the best cases? Is there any evidence at all that allows this? Or is it just your desire and hope that it simply CAN'T be real...because you don't wish to accept it?

As for wanting our souls, oil, etc., there is very little evidence suggesting their aims. Such claims of knowing their intentions are often used in the ridicule factor however, so most UFOlogists have grown accustomed to their desparate usage. The evidence of their aims is as follows.... They desire secrecy, otherwise we can assume they wouldn't take aims to hide their activities. They have shown an interest in our defensive installations. They apparently abduct our people, perhaps livestock, against their will. Whatever their aim or aims are....I seriously doubt they are in our "best interest". That much can be assumed. On the flip side....conquest does not appear to be the intention, as this would seemingly have been fairly easy prior to now....

"Alien abductions" and alien abductions.

There certainly is a known neurological/psychicatric phenomenon of "sleep paralysis" which has many hallucinatory elements which match many reports of supposed "alien abduction" and touch on many elements present in many human myths. And they tend to recur in the same person for a while and then go away (like a 'haunting' or 'possession')

I submit that the myths of culture arise from the shared neurological phenomenon.

On this ground I would discount 'alien abductions' which start and end with the subject being asleep in one's bed at their normal home, and which seem 'dreamlike'. I bet this is 99% of the reports.

The ones to investigate are those which supposedly happen to people who were clearly wide awake (note those who think it was in a dream may believe they were wide awake but were just dreaming first), reported by multiple people independently, coinciding with additional sightings of potential craft, and have physical evidence.

What about daytime alien abductions? Any reports of them?

Aurora, Texas is the best case because it involves seeing spacecraft during the year of 1897, when there was no human made aircraft.

Here is what I know, all things are half true and half not true. You have to be specific enough and direct enough to clarify anything on being more true than not true.

For instance, in one dimension there are extraterrestrials. In another, there aren't. In one dimension we have abduction, in another all extraterrestrials live in another galaxy. In one dimension there are no humans, in another there are no extraterrestrials.

See my point? And these principles can vary so greatly that you are as likely of being wrong as you are right.

So how are you going to be truely right about anything? By understanding your universe, to do so you must clear your mind and concentrate on the universe through its surroundings. The energy, the forces of nature, and all life. This is how true knowledge can be obtained.

Once one has this, then you can make your facts, otherwise some of your "facts" might only be true in another dimension.

But clearly there are alien abductions, I can sense them. I can sense the pain and turmoil of the abducties and the feelings the abductors have had, unless they are the greys, since they greys don't have emotions.

By the way, the Hill case is an incident that occurs while you are wide awake. And I have already debunked the sleep paralysis excuse, since I suffer from sleep paralysis, but I don't sense anyone around me, except spirits, which I can sense even if I was in sleep paralysis.

When you are in sleep paralysis, you are wide awake, not in a dream. You can sense things around you and you are as eager to be caught into believing things from someone else like that of those that go to a hypnotise, just that it becomes more believable, because you are conscious the whole time.

Sleep paralysis can only be truely a reason for some cases if someone was caught what they thought was an abduction during the testing, without having it fabricated, by the individual or by the scientists.

Because sleep paralysis shouldn't create any images, unless you suffer from a disorder that does so. And even if so, the images should appear half in and half out with reality or sort of unclear in some way.

It's also easy to get out of sleep paralysis, I've done it. I am quite sure other people can do it to.

[edit on 2-1-2006 by Lord Tumuhab]

Originally posted by SteveR
Great post Esoteric.. you made an interesting point there, using it as my sig if ya don't mind

Not at all. I'm flattered, and honestly had forgotten typing it. The more i read it, the more profound the truth of the statement stands out. In all honesty, though, i often find myself saying such things and feel as though it was someone elses thought processes producing such statements. thanks for the compliment.

i dont think you ever really said in this thread if you believe in ufos/aliens?
aliens are not real thread?

What i say is not important. What you are willing to accept is. If you can consciously think to ask the question, then your subconscious mind has already produced an answer, based upon everything you have ever experienced, whether you have chosen to be consciously aware of it or not.

What do I believe. The evidence for us not being alone is immensely overwhelming. Need physical proof? Then you can't concsiously handle the truth. Too much fear, too much hate, too much prejudice, too much objection to your own experiences.

Hear no evil?
See no evil?
Speak no evil?

Then you'll be a monkey.

evil is truth, and if you deny as fact what is truth it is you who choose to not know truth.

5,400 b.c. = Sumerian clay tablets record beasts of burdens being utilized to get from point a to point b.

let us fast forward through our recorded history 7,300 years .... . .

1900 a.d. = 99 % of all of humanity are still utilizing beasts of burden to get from point a to point b in horse drawn carriages.

let us fast forward 2 year . . . . . .

1902 a.d. = Mass production begins on the model -T Ford automobile.

let us fast forward 67 years . .. . . . .

1969 a.d. = Man steps foot on the moon.


7,300 from the horse drawn carriage to the automobile's mass production.

67 years from that to the moon.

Technology begets technology, but at this rate?

Ya, makes perfectly logical sense to me, too. Considering we have nothing to compare it too, how would we know any better?

We see and witness balance throughout everything in nature. Stands to reason if we have experiences of travelling forward in time (like we are doing right now), then there must be a way to get back in time.

If any intelligent race of beings, anywhere, anytime, throughout all existance, throughout all time, ever, achieved successfully the ability to time travel, then we are known. Are we alone? Why should i have to make this statement for anyone who is going to believe what they want to believe anyways. Personally, i'll listen to those who came before me. Millions of people, all saying we are not alone. Proving repeatedly they knew things we did not know without the technology of post 1940s. How did they say they knew such things? Why the Gods came down from the heavens, and told them. Every continent.

[edit on 2-1-2006 by Esoteric Teacher]

Originally posted by Victor the CleanerA phenomena beginning and ending with the unfathomable mysteries of the human mind, the grossly misunderstood boundary between the material "objective" world and the apparently "subjective" consciousness of a living organism...
V

That sounds about right. A recent high profile study was performed about abductions and posted on ATS in support of what you mention. Some people more than others have a heightened degree of susceptability to believeing they were abducted.

Originally posted by Gazrok
For example, the Hill Case, one of the first, best documented, and simply amazing cases, has a lot going for it. The Hills were respected. There is radar confirmation along with the sighting. There is military interest. The psychiatrist examining the case was one of THE most top men in the field, and former military physician as well. The starmap drawn by Betty under hypnosis not only matches a (only later identified) constellation, but even the COLORS of the stars match what Betty gave (all yellow suns).

This is but ONE case out of many that have more than just eyewitness support. To back up your assumption, one must assume you either have substantial explanations to refute these claims, or that you are going into this with a blind assumption and already decided viewpoint.

The Hill case does offer other explanations. The Hill's maintained that the commander of the craft was wearing a Nazi uniform, doesn't this seem closer to subconscious phenomena?

"Other UFO encounters are even more surreal or dreamlike in character, and in the literature, one can find cases in which the entities sing absurd songs or throw strange objects (such as potatoes) at witnesses; cases that start out as straightforward abductions aboard spacecraft but end up as hallucinogenic journeys through a series of Dantesque realities; and cases in which humanoid aliens shapeshift into birds, giant insects, and other phantasmagoric creatures." - 'The Holographic Universe' Michael Talbot (Grafton, Harper Collins, London 1991)

Originally posted by Beelzebubba

The Hill case does offer other explanations. The Hill's maintained that the commander of the craft was wearing a Nazi uniform, doesn't this seem closer to subconscious phenomena?

Aliens need role models, too. Besides, maybe they were just wearing the proper attire, after seeing it worn by the individual that was first broadcasted into space (Hitler at the Olympic's opening). I learned that from the movie "Contact". hmmmm Foster ... . . .

Originally posted by Unplugged
What do you guys think of the Travis Walton case? Our government cannot do anything like that

And im sure the 5 or 6 of them were not dreaming when it happened. ouch.

I think Travis Walton's story is very intriguing, but when you get down to the details, there's no proof. Just the word of six people who claim to have witnessed something in the woods.

Originally posted by chinabean
Same thing like people who say " i'm not gonna believe that aliens are real until i see them walking around in my backyard "

...lions and gorillas don't walk in around in your backyard..so are they not real as well?

No they're real. And if I asked you to prove it, you could produce a lion or gorilla to prove their existence. Unfortunately, nobody's done that for aliens or UFOs yet.

VTC, I am right with you. There's a whole lot we've yet to understand about the human psyche, and how it's affected by various phenomena. However I think you're far too forgiving. In the history of UFOlogy, nobody has ever produced an alien artifact that could stand up to scientific scrutiny. Hucksters, hoaxsters, social misfits, and mental cases play as big a part as any misunderstood phenomena.