Fifth Dimension

Yo it's been a while since I posted on here, but anyhow.

I recently looked into Einstein's Special Theory of Relativity and jeez...what a can of worms. I'm still miles from understanding it, let alone moving onto General Relativity.

Anyway, it got me thinking about space and time. And I began to think like this: if time is the fourth dimension, surely isn't it just a line? And to say that time is created as we need it is surely naive, yes? Space isn't created when you walk into it, why should time be any different? So from this I came to two conclusions:
1) All time is predetermined. If it is simply a line, you should be able to pick any point off that line and look at our 3 dimensional projection through time to that point.
2) Time occupies also a fifth dimension. Instead of being just a single line, through which our three-dimensional selves are projected, the fifth is an infinite (or just very very large) number of these strands of time, allowing for personal relativity (the fact that there is no universal clock and we all travel at different speeds) and for the allowance of choice.

Having said that, there are also another couple of things that I would like to clear up. Time slips. It's been proven. So is the only point in the universe which is "true" time, the center, since it is still in relativity to everything else. But having said that, does the universe even have a centre? How do you define space? If it is indeed finite, what differentiates the vacuum of nothingness within space to the nothingness without?

Good, you're starting to come around to the new way of viewing the universe.


First, remember that the universe has no "edge" to it as we can imagine. The 3-dimensional universe wraps around itself in a way we cannot hope to comprehend, let alone imagine. Thus, just as there is no centre to the surface of a ball, there is no centre to the universe.

Next the multi-line theory of fate is one that I have come up with already, and expanded to look into. It means that while there is fate, each line diverges into other lines for every possible quantum event. This means that you still choose your own destiny. So fate is, and fate isn't at the same time.

If you want more information go to: daviscentis.blogspot.com... and read the first thing that appears.

Hey yeah thanks, although I'm still not sure if this is a plausible theory or not. I've Googled the fifth dimension quickly and come up with nothing. I mean, my theory is hardly what you would call "original" - I mean, it's basically the "Multiverse" theory, but I think I'm the first to call this the fifth dimension, as opposed to an infinite number of alternate universes. They all come together in space and time to form one universe, with both space and time projected through a fifth dimension, going through every possible combination of probability (and thus all these dimensions would be finite, but very very large, since probability is finite).

Anyone else found anything on a fifth dimension? Is it at all possible, even for time to be a square, as opposed to the conventional line? Or perhaps my first conclusion was right and that fate exists, like it or lump it.

Time is only a method of recording events. Once that is understood time stands still.

I beg to differ.

Time is a part of time-space. It is a 4th dimension that is in a constant state of movement. Our minds travel through this 4th dimension. As we do so, the 3-dimensional world around us changes.

In other words, think of a diagonal line going up from left to right.

Let's say you have no concept of up. In that case, from your perspective, the line appears flat. However, strange things would happen as you walked along the line. Things that you're used to (you're 2-dimensional friends, family, and home) appear to get smaller and smaller. Little do you know, but you are actually going UP - and they're not getting smaller, nor are you getting bigger... its just that your perspective changes.

So too is it with our 4th-dimensional souls and a 3-dimensional world. As we travel in the 4th-dimensional equivilant of up (in this case, forward in time), we notice that the world around us changes. People walk, breath, and time now exists not as a direction, but as a discrepancy between what was, and what is.

So, believe me, TIME does exist - it is in a very real sense the next physical dimension. It runs at a right angle to every other physical dimension, and we exist thoroughly through it.

Here are a couple of interesting quotes realting to time.

"time is the moving image of eternity..." - Plato

"We believe that time is passing only because our ordinary consciousness, absorbed in the transiency of material forms, is capable of "illuminating" only one particular moving cross section of space-time at each instant. In other words, form and substance, including the brain and body through which we perceive, are continually changing, and we experience time as passing because each instant of consciousness is different. This is because we are always thinking new thoughts, experiencing and noticing new things, metabolizing new substances; and it is this constant sequential difference of one instant from the last or the next that gives the experience of time passing -- the mind-body relationship drives time into its appearing and disappearing movement. But through meditation techniques, in which internal linkperceptions and thoughts are trained to subside, or through internal linkMantra, by which each instant is made, through repetition, to appear the same as every other instant, the sense of the irrevocable movement of time can be arrested, and a "timeless" status of consciousness experienced.
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if you ARE light, everything is instant. if you see light, to you it travels at light speed. how do we reach light speed? i believe some have already reached this point, and from our perspective of "trapped internal linkperception" they are not in "front" of us. the future has already happened because the future is the same as the past and the now. to us, the "now" is elusive and does not exist.

Time...that is our one true constant

You do realize that Einstein's Theory of Relativity were only fully understood by two men on earth even to this day. It is Einstein's best friend and also a physist, forgot his name, and of course Einstein himself. Scientists today still only comprehend portions of it.

Originally posted by EarthUnificationFrontier
You do realize that Einstein's Theory of Relativity were only fully understood by two men on earth even to this day. It is Einstein's best friend and also a physist, forgot his name, and of course Einstein himself. Scientists today still only comprehend portions of it.

It also supposedly has many holes in it. I remember reading how he pushed his math so far it started to lose
information and therefore was inaccurate.

Interesting thoughts here.

But it seems everything we tend to think of linearly turns out to be spherical in nature. Would this apply to time as well?

And if so, what would this indicate?

Glad you asked! It would mean that time would stretch out in different directions - different "time lines". You'd be looking now at a universe where events change as they unfold, and new 3-dimensional universes are created where the event unfolded differently. This is the 4-dimensional Supraverse, where every possible quantum event that can happen, will happen. This also means that there's an almost infinite number of universes.

Ok I don't know if I'm the only one that has thought of this because I haven't looked into much of it but I have been writing my own theries about time and dimentions that I'm sure would be interesting to people but I won't dive too much into that.
The way I figure it, Time and different Dimentions are interlinked because Time itself isn't really a straight line but it has many cut off points and branches due to Humankind making different decisions.
Therefore I see time and dimentions as more of a D.N.A. ladder that drops down into levels and each "Level" Has a timestamp on it to pinpoint which intesects with every Dimention.
it's almost like bridges and intersections that the timeline goes up and down fluctuating along the ladder to connect to the point that two or more dimentions intersect with each other.
so lets say we go down our time line and we get to lets say ANY war in history we keep going the way we go but the time line splits into other directions and keeps going as if it were normal for itself.
anyway back to the ladder, I think they're are many ladders along the time line to hold time up like a suspention bridge, each ladder drops down to the other dimentions and also upword from our point.
who knows how tall or far down the ladders go because who knows how long time really is, think about how fast the years pass as you get older..
anyway I believe that the older the period in time is the more dimentions there are over and under it.
see as time moves forword the dimentions gather energy from lifeforms untill it cannot take it any longer and then disperses the energy to make another dimention below it, I believe the ladder drops down because even though there is no gravity in that Junction that is how things seem to work in our space so that is why I believe it drops.
I think the reason that we have not yet had a public time jump is because even though we could pinpoint any time we choose you could jump to a wrong dimention down the line and we would need a sustaining energy to keep charged long enough and that could keep stable without collapsing on itself.
even if you could pinpoint and map the time and dimentions it would take trial and error because if you shoot for one point and as I stated before the world has not dispersed it's energy then you COULD wind up in a blank space waiting for it to form for a long time, who knows if you would disapear or be in a sespended animation?
anyway I have alot more to this but if you have heard of someone who also thinks like this let me know or post back to let me know what you think because I want credit for discovering this if I did in fact be the first to think like this...
Hope to hear from you all soon, Joshua

[edit on 24-12-2005 by attackofthehatta]

Originally posted by EarthUnificationFrontier
You do realize that Einstein's Theory of Relativity were only fully understood by two men on earth even to this day. It is Einstein's best friend and also a physist, forgot his name, and of course Einstein himself. Scientists today still only comprehend portions of it.

I beg to differ with you on that, because of the huge amount of followup work that has been done based on his theories. There are innumerable papers out there on it, as well as books. It's complex, but it's not the most complicated problem ever attacked by scientists and mathemeticians.

Originally posted by TheRenegade
Anyway, it got me thinking about space and time. And I began to think like this: if time is the fourth dimension, surely isn't it just a line? And to say that time is created as we need it is surely naive, yes? Space isn't created when you walk into it, why should time be any different? So from this I came to two conclusions:

I need to brush up on my theoretical physics and math...however...

Mathemeticans and theoretical physicists work not with four or five dimensions but as many as twenty. Each of these universes can have special rules (a dimension is basically anything you like. A possible set of fifth dimension could be "dilbert-ness" so you have dimensions of time plus the three spatial dimensions plus "dilbert-ness."

These multiple dimensions are actually useful (I realize the glossed explaination here may be confusing) in solving theoretical problems (inversion of a hypersphere) that actually turn out to have real world applications. I believe Branes and Super Strings are modeled using more than 4 dimensions.

...and I'm praying one of our physics mavens will notice this thread and give a BETTER explaination.

It's a complex and VERY interesting field, however, and one of the ones they use for time travel research (the real stuff.)

I'll try to elaborate on what you're saying.

Each dimension has some special physical properties that go along with it - and these properties must also influence and be influenced by the preceding dimensions (so long as these dimensions interact - if a dimension didn't interact with our universe in some way, then it's existance is of no use to science).

So, for example, in the 1st dimension you have such a thing as length. In the 2nd dimension you have width. The interaction of length and width produces a new "special" measurement called AREA. In the 3rd dimension you have height, which produces another special measurement called VOLUME, and this dimension allows for many different kinds of particles, substances, and energies. A 4th dimension would have a new kind of volume, perhaps a PROBABILITY WAVE/AREA, where the probabilities on one side are different from the probabilities on the other "side". A large enough Probability Area (that encompasses the entire supraverse) would be the only Probability Area with a cumulative total of 100% (since everything that can happen will happen within the probabilty area of the supraverse).

Probability Area, the 4th spacial dimension, may allow for many more times of particles and substances than the 3-dimensional universe allows. It could infact be that some energies and things that we percieve at the 3-dimensional level are products of a 4th dimensional substance, like perhaps (but not necessarily) the soul, or light (which could explain why light behaves so strangely - like both a ray and a wave).

I hope this answers some questions!


On another note, probability area is an idea I just came up with - I haven't seen it anywhere else... but the more I think about it, the better and better it sounds. The need for more research is clearly required.

were you replying to me or someone else?? lol

[edit on 25-12-2005 by attackofthehatta]

I was replying to Byrd , but I do hope that it's helpful to everyone...

What do you think of my theory??
Just wondering and would like to get some thoughts on mine.

[edit on 25-12-2005 by attackofthehatta]

Well Hatta, I have to disagree with you, but you're on the right track. I believe that the SUPRAverse is a collection of all possible quantum universes. There is a universe where every quantum event that can happen, does happen, in different orders and permutations. I call these different quantum universes. Suffice it to say, it's basically saying that everything that could possibly happen, has happened, or does happen, in a quantum universe somewhere within the Supraverse.

This is the same idea of your different Dimensions (and for all intents and purposes the idea of "another dimension" in the different-universe sense of the term is the same as a different quantum universe), except it's not influenced by humans in any way - it's simply a foundation of physical reality.

So, there are universes where Hitler won World War II, and universes where WWII never happened, and universes where mankind never evolved, etc etc. But there's also universes where instead of you drinking milk in the morning, you drank orange juice instead - and perhaps that's all that's different in that universe. Of course, there's another universe where some other quantum event occured that made that choice mean something (perhaps you get sick from some bacteria in the milk, contract pneumonia because it's winter, and die, and then not go on to invent or do something influencial - or have a kid who does something influencial - or help a friend who has a kid who helps a friend who does something influencial, etc).

We live in this universe, but quantum changes (an electron jumping from point A around an atom to point B instead of point C) are occuring all the time, everywhere, and so an almost infinite number of universes exist within the supraverse, and and infinite more are being created every day.

But you also have to remember that universes extremely different from ours are also having new quantum events occuring, and so an almost infinite number of universes exist for those.

As you can see, the numbers, even the infinities, get really big, really fast. On the other hand, I would expect nothing less from God than to create existance in its most absolute form - literally everything. Not just in this universe, but also what could possibly have happened.

Extra dimensions are easy to understand. For example, the past isn't here, isn't physical, but somehow exists. The future is also another dimension, and the universe also. In an extra, fifth dimension, you can exist in more than one place at a given time. Quanta (discrete packets of energy like atomic particles) can be in more than one place at a time. Every single nitrogen duo in our air is like a two-slit experiment in that different nitrogen atoms share an electron that is in both atoms at the same time.

An extra dimension can exist inside of you, as well as you inside of it. The most obvious premise for extra dimension is that it must be partly constructed of nearly (or maginally) faster than light fluctuations, or it must underly much of what we see in strange ways. For example physicist David Bohm, one of Einstein's contemporaries, was convinced that all electrons in the universe are really the same thing, just seen from different perspectives. And photons? They could easily be massless because they are also the same phenomenon being teased in and out of existence across a deeper dimensional, universally shared kind of event horizon. They appear just along the fringes of a strange event horizon of sorts (those deep inner depths of the nucleus that we can't tease out because they are too tightly sunken into a deeper curvature of gravity, in a sense).

In a fifth dimension your mind would be more airy, not so physically thing-like, more ethereal seeming. But in order to be that way it would have to be premised on a kind of duality: on the one hand it is premised on bizarre deeper inner nuclear curvatures AND on vastly larger universal gravities, while at the same time it also teases out into a kind of hyperspace of elusive, virtual qualities (i.e. the new "negative energy" that you can read about here: www.physics.hku.hk... )

In the fifth (and conceivably higher) dimensions your mind would be cycled into both larger cosmic, and finer sub-quantum quantities. How so? It might be pulsed inward by the negative energy of inner nuclear gravities, while at the same time spanning far out into space-time. It would be like you can be in two places at the same time, mentally/psychically. Indeed, there is a concept called Culberson mindspace (see Nick Herbert PhD's book Elemental Mind) in which your memory ACTUALLY VISITS THE VERY PAST that it remembers. It's weird, but is premised on the idea that those seemingly singular event horizons in time are actually permeable, within certain limitations. To the extent that you aren't concretely physical, i.e. like your atomic quanta, that is possible.

Indeed, quantum physics proves that no quanta are concrete; they aren't thing-like but are, instead, wavy and fluctuating, always strangely moving. In a fifth dimension, part of your mind is literally fluctuating into a seeming singular dimension (cycling INWARDLY into those nuclear depths that connect out into and across space-time due to "negative energy" fluctuations that exist all around in seeming empty space). Physicist Paul Davies writes that any moving membrane (i.e. every quantum's "outer" membrane) should produce negative energy fluctuations. That opens the door for your existence to be in more than one place at any one time. Indeed, in a fifth dimension even time is bendable and elastic. It can flip and invert and fold in upon itself, as can seemingly empty spacetime.

In a fifth dimension, telepathy is easily possible because we are all connected, sharing the same underlying weird physics. As such, we'd all be part of a universal network of mind, but our backward physics has some of us on training wheels, in such regard. We aren't all ready to interact so transparently. In a fifth dimension, you sense someone looking at you from behind, you have no secrets, hence you need not feel ashamed. Instead, in a fifth dimension you would simply learn to assimilate within a more social order of transparency. It would be more decent, not less so.

[edit on 27-12-2005 by gl2]

I think gl2 described it well.

I think Information can be the 5th dimension as well or part of. Information can be like a enlightenment of knowledge or an extension of individual consciousness. Quantum particles carry information from one to the other and to its constituents, therefore as our consciousness grows so does the universe. All Past, Present and Future become relative at this level, everything is connected.

Now since you are "aware" of this 5th dimension you can now create a larger universe in your mind. We just made a connection between consciousness and matter, because I'm using quantum particles to send you this message. Consciousness can be like water, and the quantum particles that carry it can be like a pipeline. It comes in many forms.

Empty your mind, be formless, shapeless--like water.
Now you put water into a cup, it becomes the cup,
You put water into a bottle, it becomes the bottle,
You put it in a teapot, it becomes the teapot.
Now water can *flow* or it can *crash*!
Be water, my friend.
-- Bruce Lee