Exactly who will dwell in the pits of the Christian hell?

It's a funny thing when you ask Christians about hell.

When you ask who goes there, the default answer is anyone who doesn't accept Jesus as lord and savior. Then, when you ask them why is it so bad if you go to hell, you're told that your soul burns forever in a lake of fire and you are damned forever.

Now, in my experience, when you confront a Christian and say something like this...

"Wow, that's pretty harsh, your god creates me and, because I don't believe in him, sentences me to eternal torture. It's pretty sick that I will suffer infinite torture for something I did in my finite lifetime..."

they switch it up and say, "well, you don't exactly burn forever, your punishment is separation from god." The atheist reply of, "that's what I am now, so what's the point," is pretty clever.

Anyway...going by the Jesusgod logic, it seems to me that the following people will be broiled beyond crispy forever...

1) All non-Christians, who, by default, don't believe Jesus is their savior(let's break this one down a bit...)

Muslims
Jews
Buddhists
Hindus
Wiccans
Pantheists
Atheists
People of various tribal religions
Rastafarians
etc.

2) People who die before accepting Christ

Isolated islanders
Non-religious Christians

3) Miscarried embryos/fetuses
4) Stillborn babies
5) Aborted embryos/fetuses/babies
6) Children who die before they can understand religion (age unclear)
7) People born too retarded (seriously) to understand religion
8) People who, through accidents, attacks, disease, etc., become a vegetable before accepting Jesus
9) And, almost forgot, me

Tragically, this list of individuals (I am sure not all bases were covered, though) will burn, rot, and be tortured in hell forever, myself included. It's a sad fate for me if you Christians are right and your god is the only real one (excluding my god too). Looks like I'm gonna burn like that building in Madrid forever...

Ah, well, at least I won't be the only one fryin' down there...

Originally posted by truthseeka
Exactly who will dwell in the pits of the Christian hell?

Christians, that's who. Reason? For defaming the truth to such a degree to cause themselves an easy mind at the cost of the rest of the world's anguish, dismay, and hopelessness. Not to mention bad karma in general.

And I've got plenty of scriptures to back that up, if anyone wants to go a round or two.

Good thing 'hell' is just a man-made fantasy, in the form we've been given as 'truth.'

No one wants to go any rounds with you QA38. You have proven yourself as a true Christian soldier with lots of scripitual ammo.

I have to agree with you Queenannie. Hell is just a control mechanism created by the priest/kings to keep the rabble in line. Works too!!

i could be wrong but in revelation does it not say basically that if your a follower of christ you get an automatic bye into heaven....and the rest will sit in judgement.....there were two books and if you wernt on gods vip you got thrown in the lake of fire....not saying i believe this or that im a christian but this is what it says ...just trying to be all up in the convo.....

Originally posted by truthseeka

When you ask who goes there, the default answer is anyone who doesn't accept Jesus as lord and savior.
Now, in my experience, when you confront a Christian and say something like this...

"Wow, that's pretty harsh, your god creates me and, because I don't believe in him, sentences me to eternal torture.

Before the cross people looked forward offering the proper sacrifice in faith toward the future redeeming of mankind. After the cross we by faith look back to the cross with faith for the sacrifice that does take away our sins(Jesus Christ). After you hear of Christ and the cross the burdebn shifts to you to respond.

Lets say 2 people were going to get married on April 23rd, 2006. You receive an invitation to the wedding and it requires you to RSVP. You decide not to RSVP or maybe it slipped your mind. You travel to the church only to find out they are not allowing others to enter who didn't RSVP. Who caused the problem? Not the bride and groom,they invited you. All you had to do was let them know you were coming. You didn't let them know and they made plans without you. The wedding is still going to happen just not without you, although one little RSVP could have taken care of that. You were wanted at the wedding but choose to ignore the way to make it known that you wanted to be part of it. That is an error on the recipients fault not the inviters.

You really don't have a finite lifetime. You had a moment when you began at conception but from that moment on you will never cease to exist. You may enter new stages(I'm not talking reincarnation)but you will live somewhere forever.
You are no different than anyone else you are seperated from God like I was. I heard the truth of sin and hell and eternity and Jesus Christ and asked Him to save me and He did and I did this at age 8. From the sounds of it you have heard enough also to be able to make a choice. And if I am understanding correctly you have chosen not to come to God through Christ.

i have to say well put...i like the wedding senario...

the calculation using the KJV of the bible as to why heaven is actually hotter then hell is all over the web. Hell, according to the Catholics who made up the story, used brimstone to punish members of his creation god does not like for some reason understoof only by fundamentalists christians. Since brinstone converts to gas at temps above 444.6 degrees C the temperature of Hell cannot be hotter than about 444.5 C.
Whatever committee wrote Isaiah 30.26 tells us just how bright Heaven is. The calculation delivers a temp for Heaven of 525C or almost 76C hotter than Hell.
So, believe what you will but when you make up a story without consulting the Greeks or their math you gonna look pretty rediculous when the math is done.
skep

Originally posted by truthseeka
Exactly who will dwell in the pits of the Christian hell?

ME! And you know what, I don't care either! Because I don't believe in Christian hell.

Save me a seat if you make it first Truth.

--Kit.

[edit on 10/12/2005 by Kitsunegari]

[edit on 10/12/2005 by Kitsunegari]

Originally posted by skep
the calculation using the KJV of the bible as to why heaven is actually hotter then hell is all over the web. Hell, according to the Catholics who made up the story, used brimstone to punish members of his creation god does not like for some reason understoof only by fundamentalists christians. Since brinstone converts to gas at temps above 444.6 degrees C the temperature of Hell cannot be hotter than about 444.5 C.
Whatever committee wrote Isaiah 30.26 tells us just how bright Heaven is. The calculation delivers a temp for Heaven of 525C or almost 76C hotter than Hell.
So, believe what you will but when you make up a story without consulting the Greeks or their math you gonna look pretty rediculous when the math is done.
skep

Yeah, Science has the answers for everything, don't it?
Aren't we all fortunate...
At any rate, when dealing with the concept of God, apparently, Science forgot that if God can resurrect a man, create worlds, etc., the same God can make the burning of flesh by fire or brimstone impossible, just ask Shaddrach, Meshach, and Abendigo.

Opps, sorry, just another fictitious Christian fairytale....

Btw, I do not beleive in a literal Hell, but for different reasons not explained by Science or scientific methods.






seekerof

[edit on 10-12-2005 by Seekerof]

Originally posted by plague
i could be wrong but in revelation does it not say basically that if your a follower of christ you get an automatic bye into heaven....

Actually, there is no 'going to heaven' in Revelation. 'The new Jerusalem' descends from the heavens (or heaven) and that is where the new government is seated.
But no one has to 'go to heaven' to be with God:

Revelation 21:3
And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.

Notice it just says 'men.' Not christian men, not any kind of men. Just men.

What kind of men? Loving men (and women, of course). Not selfish men, not religious men, not 'christian' men.

and the rest will sit in judgement.....

Everyone must stand 'before the judgment seat,' but this is not some great kangaroo court in the sky, as is popularly believed. God is not a kangaroo and He doesn't wear a powdered wig and robe.

there were two books and if you wernt on gods vip you got thrown in the lake of fire....

It's about 'are your works material' or 'are your works spiritual.' Spiritual works are wrought through love and trust in God as life and truth. Material works come from judging value and worth on a 5-sensory yardstick. I say 'God' but whatever those essential things are called in the mind of another, they are still the same--names do not change essential qualities that are superior to human categorizations.

And what gets 'thrown in the lake of fire' is flesh. Everyone's. Because it dies. The key is not getting attached to it like it's the only vehicle a soul can have. The 'lake of fire' is not hell, either. It is God. 'Our God is a consuming fire.' It's not punishment (well in a way it is, but of a corrective nature not one of capital punishment).
It is a purging, a purifying. It is the final element in the four essential 'births' that a human being goes through before being released from mortality:
#1 Adam made of 'clay'--this is 'earth.'
#2 God breathed the breath of life into Adam--this is 'air.'
#3 Water baptism cleanses the conscious--this is 'water.'
#4 Spiritual baptism purges the soul to become pure--this is 'fire.'
Then the soul is 'born again' to a life that does not end.

The last chapter starts out:

Revelation 22:1-22
And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.
In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.

There are two groups in Revelation: Israel (not the UN decreed nation, but God's sent and called servants) and 'the nations.' 'The nations' is the same as 'gentiles.' Properly meaning those who do not recognize the true and living God. Not because they 'reject' Him, but because they have not been shown, by God, Himself. It is Israel's job to demonstrate God's true nature, which is love and life--for all the world. It has nothing to do with christianity although this misconception has a purpose, too.

To 'believe in God' is not a choice--either one does or one doesn't. If one does not, then maybe it's just not time yet--these things are still mostly hidden--the 'strong delusion' is still in place, for the most part. To 'hope' is not to 'believe.' We can choose to hope but we cannot choose our convictions. Choosing convictions is the same as self-deception.

There is no death penalty for trusting the truth within you. And if the truth within you says love others as you love yourself--yet the idea of christianity's god seems abhorrent, it's not a bad thing. It's probably just a good indication that you haven't been fooled by pretty pictures and stolen names--prefering instead to use logic and reason given by God to all of us for the purpose of discernment. We've all got it, but we don't all use it as intended.

The bible says that Christ said He was 'the way, the truth, and the life.' And it also says He is the 'light that lights every man who comes into the world.' So if there is a truth inside you, that leads you only to seek truth and demonstrate selfless love for others (forget what you call it, it doesn't matter), then that is the way, and that is life.

Revelation says absolutely nothing about worshipping Christ--it says 'Worship God.' 'Worship' means 'love.' How to love God? Love His children--which means every human soul. If God made even just one of us, then He surely made us all.

Originally posted by dbrandt

Originally posted by truthseeka

When you ask who goes there, the default answer is anyone who doesn't accept Jesus as lord and savior.
Now, in my experience, when you confront a Christian and say something like this...

"Wow, that's pretty harsh, your god creates me and, because I don't believe in him, sentences me to eternal torture.

You really don't have a finite lifetime. You had a moment when you began at conception but from that moment on you will never cease to exist. You may enter new stages(I'm not talking reincarnation)but you will live somewhere forever.
You are no different than anyone else you are seperated from God like I was. I heard the truth of sin and hell and eternity and Jesus Christ and asked Him to save me and He did and I did this at age 8. From the sounds of it you have heard enough also to be able to make a choice. And if I am understanding correctly you have chosen not to come to God through Christ.

Please.

That's PRECISELY the problem I have with most Christians. You are so humble and nice. You have the nerve to tell me that I am separated from God because I'm not a Christian? Truly arrogant; just look at the name for your deity.

And, your wedding analog was decent, but far from adequate. Why? YOU AREN'T TORTURED AND BURNED FOREVER if you miss a wedding in this case!

I really am sick of this arrogant attitude. See, my opinion is that Christianity is a not-so-nice mythology, but I don't tell Christians that. But, you obviously have no problem telling me I'm godless.


Mod edit:
Watch the personal insults.

[edit on 12-12-2005 by parrhesia]

Originally posted by queenannie38
[

And I've got plenty of scriptures to back that up, if anyone wants to go a round or two.

Good thing 'hell' is just a man-made fantasy, in the form we've been given as 'truth.'

Im not totally sure of how to interpret this. I come and go on these forums. Its been a while since I payed much attention. However, I will go a few rounds with you if you want...(contrary to the comment following your post). Starting with the following logic:

Why in the world would I hold scripture with any credibility whatsoever to prove or disprove the existence of a god, existence of heaven or hell, or the validity of any given religion?

Originally posted by dbrandt

Lets say 2 people were going to get married on April 23rd, 2006. You receive an invitation to the wedding and it requires you to RSVP. You decide not to RSVP or maybe it slipped your mind. You travel to the church only to find out they are not allowing others to enter who didn't RSVP. Who caused the problem? Not the bride and groom,they invited you. All you had to do was let them know you were coming. You didn't let them know and they made plans without you. The wedding is still going to happen just not without you, although one little RSVP could have taken care of that. You were wanted at the wedding but choose to ignore the way to make it known that you wanted to be part of it. That is an error on the recipients fault not the inviters.

Come on!

It is this type of logic that allows people to go on through life hindering the progress of others. A couple invited to a wedding, is in no way comparable to people going to heaven or hell. You see, the wedding planners, bride, groom....they dont know your past, your future, and your present. They may not even know major events in your life. They may not know where you work. They may be under restraints created by society almost requiring them to invite you.

Most importantly, it is likely that they do not know your situation well enough to judge wether or not you will be able to attend.

God on the other hand, knows your shortcomings before you were ever born, before you were created....(created by him at that). Yet, he creates you anyway.

Another valid point, which may seem very simple, but is relevant:

You arent going to suffer eternally for missing out on the wedding.

I just thought I would point out how ridiculous that analogy really was.

[edit on 12-12-2005 by Sight2reality]

Originally posted by truthseeka
It's a funny thing when you ask Christians about hell.

While it may be fun to play some mind games with them, there is no universal Christian doctrine of hell. Fundamentalist types will quote from the Gospel according to Dante to describe hell, whereas more liberal Christians will tell you that 'hell' is the grave or perhaps a temporary place of purification (like the Catholic purgatory) which need not be unpleasant, or perhaps its just experience you have here on earth is you live a life devoted to yourself at the exclusion of others.

All of these have some scriptural basis, because the concept of hell is not consistent in the Bible. It started off as the grave in Jewish scriptures and transformed into the garbage pit of Gehenna and then the Greek Hades in the new testament, and got totally confused by literalists as the lake of fire in Revelation.

When you ask who goes there, the default answer is anyone who doesn't accept Jesus as lord and savior. Then, when you ask them why is it so bad if you go to hell, you're told that your soul burns forever in a lake of fire and you are damned forever.

It's amazing that people can actually force themselves to accept the eternal torture concept.

"A man must make himself as cruel as the God he worships." - Bertrand Russell

Guys, keep it civil, OK?
No need for personal insults here.

Originally posted by truthseeka
"Wow, that's pretty harsh, your god creates me and, because I don't believe in him, sentences me to eternal torture. It's pretty sick that I will suffer infinite torture for something I did in my finite lifetime..."

And???

Non-christians go to 'hell'. From my understanding of the theology, everyone dies and resides in the grave. This is a sort of limbo-esuqe 'squeak and gibber' kind of existence. Then, at the second comming, everyone is ressurected, physically restored and bodily rises from their graves. Then, everyone goes to God Court. If they aren't written down in the "book of life" they get thrown into a lake of fire. Interpretations can differ. This might mean that you are simply destroyed and don't get salvation in the after-life. Or it might mean that you physically experience pain. Who's in the book? *shugs* Some point to verses where jesus says that no-one gets ot 'the father' but through him. Does that mean that you have to worship jesus to get to god? Or does it merely mean that jesus does stuff to get people to god, without him being worshiped?

Is it 'sensible' that the unbaptized aren't saved? I dunno. But thats why people started baptizing their children, rather than have them baptized later on.

Dealing with the good and also dead babies is a theological problem. Purgatory is a realm where people are purged of their sins, and thus can get salvation after death after residing there. This is what 'hell' is in islam, and eventually everyone gets out, so in islam, actually, everyone, even non muslims, get to 'paradise'. WRT dead babies in particular, thats why Limbo was created. I am unclear if the word came to have its modern meaning later or if the word 'limbo' was chosen because it was a 'limbo like' state. But regardless its a place where dead babies, who are 'innocent', but still have the 'stain of sin' go, but aren't punished or anythign like that. *shrug*

Does it make sense? Why should it, its religion.

Also, for what its worth, other religions are no less 'sensible' than the christian idea. Amoung the old pagans, the dead simply wandered about as shades in a dark afterlife that was a mere shadow of actual life, in perpetuity, amnesiac, incorporeal, eating clay and drinking dust, squeaking and gibbering. Amoung the jews, the dead, and I think that this apparently applies to good pious jews, reside in the grave, 'sheol'. They're dead and thats about it.

So, again, maybe the idea of the unsaved, being perfectly good people who just don't worship jesus, going to permanent punishment seems mean and cruel, but since when does the creator of the universe have to no be mean or cruel?? By definition, in fact, anything that a supreme creator of the universe does is good.

Originally posted by truthseeka
And, your wedding analog was decent, but far from adequate. Why? YOU AREN'T TORTURED AND BURNED FOREVER if you miss a wedding in this case!

To make the wedding analogy even more precise we can say that the person receives thousands of invitations, knows that only one is real, can only reply to one, and does not know which one to reply to. And as you said, punishment for not choosing the correct invitation.


[edit on 12/12/2005 by AkashicWanderer]

Originally posted by truthseeka
You have the nerve to tell me that I am separated from God because I'm not a Christian?

You are seperated from God because of your sin and the sins you've done. Just like I was and others.

i dont know about you guys but i talk to god alot ...and he answers ....in fact i have felt the presence of god on more than one occasion ...in fact on one occasion he saved my life......
i claim no one certain religion, and i especially do not claim christianity.....none the less i am not with out god........so please do not think because you read in a book that we are seperated from god because of this and that , that it is truth because it is not........god is always with you ..you just have to love enough to hear em....

Originally posted by AkashicWanderer
To make the wedding analogy even more precise we can say that the person receives thousands of invitations, knows that only one is real, can only reply to one, and does not know which one to reply to. And as you said, punishment for not choosing the correct invitation.

Ohhh, that's excellent. Why worry about damnation when you're damned from the get-go? Why even open the mail? Why? Why? Why?