Invading Israel

Originally posted by Conspiracy Theorist
Based on the United States excuses for invading Iraq. Such as WMDs and United Nations Resolutions violations. Doesnt it stand to reason that Israel also needs to be invaded when u compare the amount of wmds they are known to have. Also lets not forget they have also violated almost three (3) times more resolutions than Iraq ever did

Israel hasn't gone around telling the world they are going to wipe x country off the face of the Earth....

Wether people agree with it or not, the Israeli government is 100 times less likely to want to use nukes than Iran....

[edit on 20-3-2006 by Muaddib]

Exactly, ever since the initial emergeance of Israel there had been unrest in the Arab States. Israel takover of the Gaza strip, West Bank and other unauthorized land by the UN in the 6 day war, 726,000+ refugees were created when kicked out of their homeland which their ancestors had been living for 2000 years prior to Jewish immigrants in the Middle East region during WWII. And so officially born was the Palestine terrorists.

I still don't see why you are fighting on this argument. Anyways, let me tell you a story:

A homeless and broke bum with no place to live in walked up to a house, that used to belong to his mother's. She was booted out when she did not pay the rent. And since then the two of them live as beggars on the mean streets of downtown, discriminated by the masses because of their identity as poor and filthy bums.

Just recently, the bum's mom was murdered by a bunch of crooks when she got into their way. Devastated, the bum decided to live as a homeless beggar no more.

He went back to the house that he and his mom used to live in, and found out the house is now belonged to a black. The bum came up to the black man, and asked him to share the house with him, the reason was that his mother and him used to live in the house before the black man even moved in. And his mom just got killed, so he should be let in to live in the house.

Like what most people would do, the black man of course refused, what happened to his mother and him wasn't his problem. The bum wasn't satisfised, he went to the infamous bad and corrupted cop in the neighbourhood, who disliked the black man, and felt sorry for the bum for his mother'sdeath.

The cop gave a gun to the bum, who went back to the guy's house, point it at his face and kick him out of the house and start living in it as if it's his own once more. The black man lost everything when he lost possesion of his house, with nothing to lose, he set up a tent near the house and harass the bum, invader of his home, by throwing stones at the windows, demolishing the bum's new car, etc, whenever he can.

The black man also got his good friends all living around the block to help him out, whom they all hate the bum with his brutality, not to mention the rasict and corrupted cop that gave him the gun in the first place.

On several occasions the bum wanted to rid of the black man once and for all with all the new guns he got, but the cop advise him not to since it would make him look bad with a murder on his case.

And so goes on with the drama between the bum, the black man and his friends, the cop, and the house.

I guess we all know how this story turns out, although yet it still has no ending.

Good analogy but incomplete. I have added the part of the story you missed.

Originally posted by EarthUnificationFrontier

A homeless and broke bum with no place to live in walked up to a house, that used to belong to his mother's. She was booted out when she did not pay the rent. And since then the two of them live as beggars on the mean streets of downtown, discriminated by the masses because of their identity as poor and filthy bums.

Just recently, the bum's mom was murdered by a bunch of crooks when she got into their way. Devastated, the bum decided to live as a homeless beggar no more.

The landlord of the house wanted it fixed up for free. He needed electrical work done that would be costly. He remembered the tenent he had kicked out was an electrician. He sought him out and said he would love to rent the house back to him if he would agree to do electrical work.

But the house also needed all the plumbing replaced and while the landlord was contracting with the bum, the landlord's wife was contracting with the black man - who was a plumber.

He went back to the house that he and his mom used to live in, and found out the house is now belonged to a black. The bum came up to the black man, and asked him to share the house with him, the reason was that his mother and him used to live in the house before the black man even moved in. And his mom just got killed, so he should be let in to live in the house.

And the bum showed the black man his contract with the landlord. And the black man showed the bum his contract with the landlord's wife.

Like what most people would do, the black man of course refused, what happened to his mother and him wasn't his problem.

The bum also went to the local judge and showed the judge his contract with the landlord. The judge called the landlord in and the landlord confessed that he had made a contract with the bum and had later found out his wife had made a contract with the black man - both of them not knowing what the other was doing.

The judge called both the bum and the black man to court to try and settle the situation. The black man would not show up. The judge had before him all the evidence of the bum and the landlord and his wife, but because the black man refused to appear, his evidence was not there.

The judge ruled that the bum could have the third bedroom and one of the bathrooms. So the bum moved in and then started inviting all his relatives to move in. They couldn't all fit in the third bedroom, so they ended up moving into the second bedroom as well.

The black man became infuriated and began leaving boobie traps in the bathroom the bum and his relatives used. Lots of arguments ensued...until the neighbors got fed up and went to the judge and lodged a complaint about the constant rucus.

The judge subpoenad the bum, his relatives and the black man back to court. Everybody showed up but the black man. The judge said to the bum "Wait, I keep only getting your side of the story because the black man won't show up. I'm going to send investigators over to see what's really happening."

[Repeat above paragraphs about 14 times.]

The bum wasn't satisfised, he went to the infamous bad and corrupted cop in the neighbourhood, who disliked the black man, and felt sorry for the bum for his mother'sdeath. The cop gave a gun to the bum, who went back to the guy's house, point it at his face and kick him out of the house and start living in it as if it's his own once more. The black man lost everything when he lost possesion of his house, with nothing to lose, he set up a tent near the house and harass the bum, invader of his home, by throwing stones at the windows, demolishing the bum's new car, etc, whenever he can.

The black man also got his good friends all living around the block to help him out, whom they all hate the bum with his brutality, not to mention the rasict and corrupted cop that gave him the gun in the first place.

On several occasions the bum wanted to rid of the black man once and for all with all the new guns he got, but the cop advise him not to since it would make him look bad with a murder on his case.

And so goes on with the drama between the bum, the black man and his friends, the cop, and the house.

I guess we all know how this story turns out, although yet it still has no ending.

Both sides are at fault.

[edit on 3-20-2006 by Valhall]

someone should really make a movie out of this, great drama, probably would win the oscars, if the americans dont realize who the big bad rasict corrupted cop is.

iskander,

In US, +/- 90% of grocery store products are labeled with U and Parve. Look it up. Talking about discrimination and taxation with out representation. If I was Muslim for example, and chose not to have my daily food blessed by a Rabbi and collect taxes for doing so, I would have to live on my own farm, grow my own garden and raise my own live stock. I'm not a Muslim, yet I'm forced to pay taxes to Israel not only out my taxes, but also out of taxation of the food I eat.

This is a classic example of both ignorance and anti-semitism. The above quote is a total fabrication. you can read this here
just to paraphrase:

The "Kosher tax" is a canard or urban legend spread by American anti-Semitic organizations. It refers to the claim that food producers must pay an exorbitant amount to obtain the right to display a symbol on their products (usually a K or U in a circle) that indicates it is kosher or pareve, and that this cost is passed on to consumers through higher prices which constitute a "kosher tax".

Moreover, Muslim dietary law is similar to Jewish diatary law and is acceptable according to Koran (with the exeption of Alcohol). Kosher laws are stricter that Muslim dietary law. Therefore Muslims enjoy this service as well as Jews. When I went to the University I ate in the Kosher cafeteria with Muslims as well as Jews.

Just to clear up the blatant ignorance posted here you can read up on it here here and here

EarthUnificationFrontier

Exactly, ever since the initial emergeance of Israel there had been unrest in the Arab States. Israel takover of the Gaza strip, West Bank and other unauthorized land by the UN in the 6 day war, 726,000+ refugees were created when kicked out of their homeland which their ancestors had been living for 2000 years prior to Jewish immigrants in the Middle East region during WWII. And so officially born was the Palestine terrorists.
I still don't see why you are fighting on this argument

I'll tell you why. You are historically wrong. The unrest in the middle east preceded Israel by over 30 years. I previously provided information on the issue were Jews and Arabs (mostly Muslims) were in riots and both sides suffered losses.
In addition, the refugee problem did not start in 1967 but in 1948 with the war that ensued immediately following the formation of Israel by the UN. In 1967 no-one was kicked off their lands and in 1947 Arabs left as a result of rumors spread of massacres by the Jews, the request of invading Arab armies that Arabs leave so that the Jews can be annihilated and because of the war which took a civilian toll on both sides.
Your whole arguement comes clumbling down just because your 'facts' are flawed.
Maybe if you had your facts straight you would have the views you did. You can read up on the conflict here - Note I use a neutral source which I am not always in perfect agreement with.

[edit on 20/3/06 by JudahMaccabbi]

Originally posted by Conspiracy Theorist
Based on the United States excuses for invading Iraq. Such as WMDs and United Nations Resolutions violations. Doesnt it stand to reason that Israel also needs to be invaded when u compare the amount of wmds they are known to have. Also lets not forget they have also violated almost three (3) times more resolutions than Iraq ever did

Short and simple but sounds about right!Just think of what a happy peaceful world we would live in had we simply did this.We would have the appreciation of the entire Middle East and most the world.

Originally posted by Conspiracy Theorist

lets not forget they have also violated almost three (3) times more resolutions than Iraq ever did

No, that is wrong.

The UN distinguishes between two sorts of Security Council resolution.

Those passed under

• Chapter Six deal with the peaceful resolution of disputes and entitle the council to make non-binding recommendations.
  
  Those under
  
  
• Chapter Seven give the council broad powers to take action, including warlike action, to deal with “threats to the peace, breaches of the peace, or acts of aggression”.
  
  Resolutions under Chapter Seven, binding on all UN members, were used against Iraq.
  
  None of the resolutions relating to the Israeli-Arab conflict comes under Chapter Seven
  
  or put it simply:
  
  It is impossible to break non-binding recommendations

Originally posted by Riwka

Originally posted by Conspiracy Theorist

lets not forget they have also violated almost three (3) times more resolutions than Iraq ever did

No, that is wrong.

The UN distinguishes between two sorts of Security Council resolution.

Those passed under

• Chapter Six deal with the peaceful resolution of disputes and entitle the council to make non-binding recommendations.
  
  Those under
  
  
• Chapter Seven give the council broad powers to take action, including warlike action, to deal with “threats to the peace, breaches of the peace, or acts of aggression”.
  
  Resolutions under Chapter Seven, binding on all UN members, were used against Iraq.
  
  None of the resolutions relating to the Israeli-Arab conflict comes under Chapter Seven
  
  or put it simply:
  
  It is impossible to break non-binding recommendations
  
  

But they are still UN resolutions, right? CT was not correct though. Israel has had more than 100 UN Security council resolutions against them, and far more General Assembly resolutions. While they may not employ Chapter 7 they are indeed UN Resolutions. I put it closer to 20 times as many.

And yes you can violate them. There simply is no penalty for doing so.

[edit on 20-3-2006 by Malichai]

Originally posted by mr conspiracy
it can't risk Israeli nukes falling into dumb Arab hands.

Well atleast the "dumb arabs" can support there own countries, not leech of US.

Originally posted by thawyze
Well atleast the "dumb arabs" can support there own countries, not leech of US.

Yes, and we all see just how they are supporting their countries, don't we?
Nothing but the few upperclass fat Arabian cats getting fatter, with no trickle down economic benefits or windfalls for the average Arabian resident. Certainly do not have to leech off the US to simply reap from the 'fat cat' philosophy, huh?





seekerof

[edit on 20-3-2006 by Seekerof]

If you are complaining about the low standard of living for the arabs, remember there would never been be palestine refugees and all the deaths from the past wars and current conflict should israel never have existed.

Originally posted by EarthUnificationFrontier
If you are complaining about the low standard of living for the arabs, remember there would never been be palestine refugees and all the deaths from the past wars and current conflict should israel never have existed.

Wrong again. You seem to have a VERY narrow outlook. There are about 4-6 million Palestinians in the world (depends on your source). This contrasts with over 700 million Arabs. This is less than 1% of the Arab population.
With that said, Had the Arabs absorbed the Palestinians refugees from the 1948 war, like other nations did with the 100,000,000 refugees since WWII. Then their suffering would have been much less. Moreover, Israel absorbed Jewish Arab refugees that escaped Arab countries following the foundation of Israel. The number of Jewish Arab refugees absorbed by israel is equivalent to the Palestinian refugees of the 1948 war.
Moreover, Arab suffering under Arab hands is much worse than under Israel - e.g. the Kurds under Sadaam, Coptic Christian Arabs in Egypt, Christian Arabs in Lebanon, Lebanese under Syrian occupation, Kuwaitis under Sadaam's Iraqi invasion, Iran and Iraq conflict and in general the Arab repressive regimes of Syria, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Yemen - you name it!

Should I go on? Will you keep parroting your rhetoric without actually checking up on the facts?

[edit on 21/3/06 by JudahMaccabbi]

Originally posted by JudahMaccabbi

Moreover, Arab suffering under Arab hands is much worse than under Israel - e.g. the Kurds under Sadaam, Coptic Christian Arabs in Egypt, Christian Arabs in Lebanon, Lebanese under Syrian occupation, Kuwaitis under Sadaam's Iraqi invasion, Iran and Iraq conflict and in general the Arab repressive regimes of Syria, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Yemen - you name it!

Should I go on? Will you keep parroting your rhetoric without actually checking up on the facts?

[edit on 21/3/06 by JudahMaccabbi]

well i hate making political replys but i think i need to.

i'm just gonna comment on Lebanon since i have a couple of friends from there and i have been watching what is happening there. Just an insight:
the syrians left lebanon because they made a deal with americans (after the bush administration put so much pressure on them to leave). The americans wants to convince the syrian to go into Iraq to help them there so that's is why they made all these UN pressure on them.

so invading ISrael is not more an issue. ALL along the lebanese had no querral with them but groups backed by foreign countries always make things look otherwise. for eg: HIZBOLLAH is backed by the IRAN regime, palestinians are backed by syrians, etc....

well i don't want to go into details. The only thing that i know for sure is that Lebanese people have no problems with jews only with their Govt (sionism).

PEace LeMagnifique

Go on, what you say can NEVER justify Zionist take over of the Palestinian land by force in the 6 Day War.

Why would other countries absorb the Palestinian refugees and sort out YOUR problem, when YOU created the problem yourself by creating all those refugees in the first place??? What you just suggested defies all logic.

It's like you throwing a rubbish on the street, but was seen and caugtht by the police, wanting to fine you. And you protested: "Hey don't fine me, the rubbish would never have been lying here on the street if that homeless guy right there would just kindly pick it up and help me put it into a garbage can. It's not my fault."

You think the police would agree with your justification?

In the end, it doens't really matter what you say, because simply the rest of the world (aside the screwed up US gov) doesn't agree with you.


[edit on 21-3-2006 by EarthUnificationFrontier]

well like i said before, i hate making political comments since everybody has their own opinion and if i say more i might probably be shot down by so many people who should check the facts on BOTH sides before making judgement. I would like rather to hear their or your opinions.

peace LeMagnifique

LeMagnifique,

I once went into a website called (as I recall) cederland.com. I was surprised to see that the Lebanese are not Anti-Israel as the rest of the Arab world. Moreover, I sense that they are quite open to Israel. It seems that the Syrian occupation, Palestinian intervention and Radical Islamic hatemongering groups have policy forming power that exceeds their demographic proportions. This is too bad since peace with Israel would do good for both countries.
Reading up on Lebanese history made me feel much compassion for the Lebanese people. I have Lebanese Jewish friends who told me stories that their parents told them about Lebanon. I would really like to visit there sometime. It sounds like a lovely country.

Of course Lebanon is a lovely country, or should i say, "was"?

It was doing all right and fine until your country's two invasions into this "lovely" country in 1978 and 1982, in the second invasion the capital Beirut was virtually completely demolished to the ash and dirt.

A brief description of the bombing of second Israeli invasion on Lebanon:

"In the first bombing of Beirut in June, a children’s hospital in the Sabra refugee camp was hit and the Gaza Hospital near the camps was reported hit. [8] “There is nothing unusual” in the story told by an operating room assistant who lost both hands in the attack. “That the target of the air strike was a hospital, whether by design or accident, is not unique either,” reported William Branigan in the Washington Post. [9] The Acre Hospital was again hit on 24 June, along with the Gaza Hospital and the Islamic Home for Invalids where “the corridors were streaked with blood”

By mid-August, the Islamic Home had been repeatedly shelled, only 15 of 200 staff members remained and “several retarded children died of starvation for lack of someone to feed them properly.” [10] Most of this was before the bombing escalated in August. By 4 August eight out of nine Homes of Orphans had been destroyed, attacked by cluster and phosphorous bombs. When Beirut mental hospital was hit, “800 patients varying in condition from senile dementia to violent schizophrenia were released into the streets of Beirut.” [11]

He reported that “he was witness to four prisoners who were beaten to death.” That he witnessed “the total devastation of residential areas and the blind, savage, indiscriminate destruction of refugee camps by simultaneous shelling and carpet bombing from aircraft, gunboats, tanks and artillery,” leaving only “large blackened craters filled with rubble and debris, broken concrete slabs and twisted iron bars and corpses”; “hospitals being shelled”, one shell killing 40-50 people ... He saw “the entire male staff” of the hospital being taken into custody, leaving patients unattended, and “savage and indiscriminate beatings” of prisoners with fists, sticks, ropes with nuts and bolts tied to them. He saw a Palestinian doctor hung by his hands from a tree and beaten and an Iraqi surgeon “beaten by several guards viciously, and left to lie in the sun with his face buried in the sand” – all in the presence of an Israeli Colonel who did nothing about it. He watched prisoners “being rehearsed by an Israeli officer to shout ‘Long Live Begin’.” [12] "

A Norwegian doctor and social worker confirmed this story, saying that they had seen at least ten people beaten to death, including an old man who was crazed by lack of water and intense heat as the prisoners were forced to sit for hours in the sun; he was beaten by four or five soldiers who then tied him with his wrists to his ankles and let him lie in the sun until he died.

To many people, in fact, the siege of Beirut seemed gratuitous brutality ... The arsenal of weapons, unleashed in a way that has not been seen since the Vietnam War, clearly horrified those who saw the results first hand and through film and news reports from a distance. The use of cluster bombs and white phosphorus shells, a vicious weapon, was widespread.
In the end ... Israel created in West Beirut a whole set of facts that no amount of packaging could disguise. In the last hours of the last air attack on Beirut, Israeli planes carpet-bombed Borj el Brajne (a Palestinian refugee camp). There were no fighting men left, only the damaged homes of Palestinian families, who once again would have to leave and find another place to live. All of West Beirut, finally, was living in wreckage and garbage and loss.

The above is just about 0.1% of the brutlity prsent in the Lebanese invasion by the Israeil troops in 1982. Words simply could not describe all those horrid and tragic imageries that defies the very fundamental moral principles of humanity.

Have you no shame and guilt visiting this "lovely" country with what your army did to it? You truly astonish me.


[edit on 21-3-2006 by EarthUnificationFrontier]

EarthUnificationFrontier,

Your arguements are lacking in creadible facts (no sources provided - probably because they are from biased propaganda sites) and plain balance. If you would have checked the facts you would have known that the civil war started in 1975, Syrian involvement in 1976 and then the first Israeli incursion into Lebanon occured in 1978 AFTER cross border attacks intensified Israel then withdraw and again entered the conflict in 1982 again after Palestinian aggression. Israel fought with Lebanese allies in the war.
In a civil war Lebanese fought Lebanese. The foreign powers were Israel, PLO terrorist militias, the US and Syria. All sides bombarded all sides. Putting the blame solely on Israel may suit your Israel-bashing agenda but is inaccurate, stupid and wrong.
I think that the Lebanese for the most part were quite happy that Israel ridded Lebanon of the PLO and their influence.

As a final note I strongly suggest you provide links to your claims so it can be discussed in a more intelligent manner - and don't provide links to gruesome pictures since it says nothing (A PLO favorite).

Right, i knew you were going to say this, and when i do provide a valid link you would question the secret political agenda and reliability of the site.

[REMOVED INSINUATING ETHNIC COMMENT]

Well, guess your luck has run out.

Source is written by John Rose, an Israeli citizen himself.

www.doublestandards.org...

[edit on 21-3-2006 by EarthUnificationFrontier]

[edit on 3-22-2006 by Valhall]