My theory on the secret behind Rennes-le-Chateau

After Sauniere discovered his secret, one notable visitors which particularly interested me. (Unfortunately i've lent my copy of the book Holy Blood and the Holy Grail to some one at work so I can't quote like I was going to ) was either the ruler or heir to the throne of Austro-Hungary. European Royalty visiting a small villiage in southern France!

Also interesting to note, not that I believe they are at all related, is the Austro Hungarian Empire was still using the title of Holy Roman Empire until the early 1800s.

[edit on 28-10-2005 by lev1978]

``

put this down as another look at the Knights Templar from another viewpoint

perhaps the Chateau & the Knights solidified because a cult grew out
of the discovery of A ancient early christian writing (which they secretly called their Grail)
which the crusader knights returned with on their Eastern campaigns?
->the early christian 'book' is now known as 'The Shepherd of Hermas' or 'The Pastor of Hermas'

'The Pastor of Hermas' was written in Greek[139-155CE]. It was well known in Eastern Churches: it seems to have been little read in the Western (churches)...'

source

Book; (either lost or deliberatly concealed from the european laiety & serfs & peasants- by the church in Rome)

part one- The Visions....5 parts
part two- The Mandates...12 each
part trey- The Parables..8 parts
www.antioch.com.sg/tup/bookbyte/hermas.html#mandates
(there is a hyperlink at the source below; [at bottom of page])

here is a short preamble:
source

re: The Shepherd of Hermas

The message of the work is that the pious Christian must, in his or her pursuit of virtue, overcome vices and obstacles to do so.
The teachings are primarily concerned with penance, morality, the condition of the church, and personal virtue;....

Pretty much the 'code-of-ethics-&-honor' which a Knight is committed to endeavor...for King+Country+TheLordGod
a lifetime devoted to honor, chivialry, high character and such....
i pretty much think these spiritually starved warriors found a copy of that early Christianity writing and enshrined it as a type of 'holy grail'.
This cult of Knights and their Chateau operated beyond the Vatican, the church of Rome, and the Papal State.......that, to my view, is the secret...............................more fluff than fury, eh?





[edit on 28-10-2005 by St Udio]

[edit on 28-10-2005 by St Udio]

The Templars and Rennes le Château.


The Templars are my favourite Military Order from the Crusades. Mainly because of the mystery surrounding them and the legends that have been attached to them.
I think everyone knows the basic story behind the Templars, their mysterious beginnings and their tragic downfall.
We also know about the stories of Baphomet and the stories of the Templars supposedly worshipping a severed head or a representation of a head.
First and foremost in peoples minds is that the Templars found something in Jerusalem, something of immense importance to them. So seeing as this forum is a place to speculate and throw around ideas lets do that.
The Templars contrary to popular belief were not actually billeted in the Temple on the Mount proper but they did have the use of the stables and were initially given quarters in a portion in rooms adjoining the temple by the then King of Jerusalem King Baldwin II, hence the origin of the name Templar.
Let’s speculate about the Templars for a moment. They began as a group of 9 Knights led by one Hughes De Payens and another Knight called Geoffrey St Omar the names of the other Knights are lost to History. Although it’s tempting to go with the notion that these Knights were freshly arrived from Europe and ready to put the Saracens to the sword there is strong evidence to suggest they had been in Jerusalem for quite a while and may well have fought in the first Crusade. So these guys were not naive newcomers to the Holy Land but quite probably battle hardened soldiers. So, I ask myself, why would 9 Knights hardened by war and life in the Middle East of the time offer their meagre services to King Baldwin professing their desire to protect pilgrims on their journey to Jerusalem?
A few things to remember about the Knights of the time. They were driven by two things God and money. The primary reason for going on Crusade was to gain absolution for past sins, to regain the Holy land and also to hopefully benefit from the Kingdom of Jerusalem either from land or the ransom of captured prisoners.
So how did these poor Knights of Christ gain access to King Baldwin and why would he accommodate them when there were hundreds if not thousands of Knights who could have offered the same service perhaps with more men to do the job?
Im of the opinion that these particular 9 Knights were probably very well connected in Europe and the Holy land. After all you don’t just turn up on a Kings doorstep and expect to be housed and given use of the Temple of Solomon unannounced ….. Do you?
It seems that the Templars did no active recruiting for about 9 years or there about, I may be off on that but it was a good few years. There are no reports of them escorting pilgrims, no reports of battles or skirmishes they may have been apart of in fact they seem to have done nothing of any note at all. So what were they doing for all those years?
There is a theory; this is the right forum for theories isn’t it? That they were looking for something. Something important. And the theory goes that they found that something and it was so important that they kept it a secret and that it changed the Order and over time may have corrupted it from its original stated mission.

Almost over night they became the most powerful and influential Order of Knights in the world, exempt from the law of Kings and answerable to the Pope alone and in those days that was power indeed.
But what did they find? What shape and form did it take? Was it the Cup of Christ or was it proof that Christ was a man and that the teachings of the Church were based on a falsehood? Perhaps they found the head of John the Baptist or perhaps it was the bloodline of Christ. What ever it was perhaps, just perhaps it set them on a collision course with the Church and Kings of Europe that was to end with the almost total destruction of the Order in France some 200 Hundred years later.
If anyone’s interested Ill post my theory about the connection between the templars and the Cathars and how the Order may have been corrupted by the Cathar idea of the duality of God another time.
Most of the above is of course speculation but sometimes its fun to speculate isn’t it?

Well here goes... Valhall's memory is fresher than mine as i studied the subject in the early nineties when I decoded Crowleys tarot attributes into a perfect clear consise and understandable system.

I haven't yet read Da Vinci code either for some reason..its a wonder too usually i devour books and eagerly wait the release days of Rowlings..Happy Rotter books.......

Image means vision, mirror image, reflection

My theory... "gods Gene"

If there was a Jesus.. and he did have extra bits of dna or different dna.. then this is what i felt could have happened.

the priests got jealous of the royal line... and decided to control it...by controlling who married who and so on....then when they thought it was controlled all the male babies were killed...but they missed the one hidden in the bullrushes...
life went on for a while, probably around 2000 years and then Jesus was born..The gene may take that long to reach full strength........ Then Jesus was killed and the gene or bloodline hidden....
In Scotland where the lost tribe is believed to have gone along with France and Spain the gene existed hidden.. the priest now thought they controlled it as we can see by royal marriages throughout the centuries......the priests now thought they controlled it...but somehow it was foretold that a child with the full gene would be born around now......

so the priests have done everything they can to stop that happening over the years....what they do not realise is that it is by these very actions of trying to destroy it, they have created it...if that makes sense..Im rambling a bit but all this is coming from a deep place in my mind......They had clues so they have tried to wipe it out before it begins, not realising the full force of action-reaction.....

the beast spoken of in the bible that rules 1000 years is now themselves, they are the "evil" they feared so much in early prophecies....We know or think we know that these ones in charge worship bahomnet and the goat headed god. So its all twisted around ....

So now this hidden gene keeps on keeping on...lust keeps it going.....when one person with the gene meets somone else with the gene, although they don't consciously know anything they feel something and feel they have to have a child to this person...

All the way down to now..a child is born with the full gene..full understanding of it and memories... I think that is one thing the gene contains genetic memories...

So this person is rightfully the royal blood....... but yet they are born finding out others are the royals, ones without the gene......

Valhall is correct in saying its the bones or similar, maybe a diary or pictures I dunno but it will be along those lines...

I often wonder how the child will be bought into the open..and how the form of irrefutable proof will take.

..I take it back to the stories from Egypt... Ra's eye ran away into the desert....the gods all left the earth except the eye of ra that was left behind..these legends vary slightly with one exception..they say all the gods left and one stayed behind...

I think its elemental... the child will be the sum of the whole and contain all of what came before.....

Jesus was light...Isis was light...... what I think is that this child will be not so light..not so easy going... fair and just.... will contain the light but also contain more.... the dark...a perfect balance of all elements....it will be an image or reflection or vision of all that came before it.......

Jesus being light only did not have the element of dark to fight back to really do it.... only a child containing all that came before will be able too.....

I have always been wary of the templars like most others, from what i see everyone wants to control or destroy the child.... when the time comes will the templars be the knights and knaves for this child or will human greed decree they too try destroy the child.

Have they taken their vows in all honesty to protect the bloodline of christ...the true bloodline.. not the fake bloodline put there for everyone to think and believe they are it......will they accept the true child or refute it.....



[edit on 28-10-2005 by Mayet]

If the Order still exists, i believe it did in one form or another in Scotland, perhaps they are both the controlers and protectors of Christs bloodline, if it still exists in any form.
The thing to remember is that whoever watches over the bloodline of Christ are human and subject to everything that entails, Greed and the lust for power are very powerful indeed. Perhaps the Knights of the Old Order became corrupted by that power and they had to be put down to protect the bloodline from manipulation or perhaps the secret they guarded became known to those that would want to do harm to the bloodline and were put down from their role of protector so the bloodline became vulnerable. Who knows but its an entertaining idea.

Basically I think they no longer have the bloodline..I think it has been hidden from them as well....

the question is...when the real true bloodline reveals itself how will they react...

it will go against everything they have thought............

Will they turn and protect the true bloodline or continue supporting the false lines...the false prophets...

Will they try and kill the truth...

Ive studied the Templars for a long time. I think they were ill served by the Church and Phillip the Fair. I think they were ever the faithfull servants of God, their unflinching service in the Holy Land was proof enough of that. If the bloodline were made known today and if the Order still existed i think they would step forward and do what they did in times past ..... fight on the side of God.

We could hope ....

but this time its the question of mankind

one theory I have is that if they do kill the child the earth will be destroyed..or as they kill the child so will they kill humanity...

Pandoras box... all the evils been let out into the world..hope remained..but kill hope ....and well yeah......

To myself personally that is what the Grail, bloodline of Christ what ever label that is attached to it, is... Hope. Whilest there is Hope we have protection from the evils of the World and Hope, be it in God or an idea,l is worth the fight isnt it?
I see the Grail/Bloodline as a metaphor for that, its an ideal that we strive for something that brings meaning to life. It dosent matter if its real or not, its the idea that is important because it gives to us Hope that there is something better just over the horizon.

[edit on 28-10-2005 by Janus]

When i met my mother, i was adopted out at birth... she often told me of things in the family history of the Macleod clan .

She mentioned Jacob's pillow...which I take now to be Jacobs pillar.. she said our anscestors bought it with them from Israel.... Apparently jcaobs pillar is under the throne of the English Kings.....asis.com...

She also mentioned a fairy flag and a marriage between a fairy and one of the macleods... and also mentioned the huegnots from France and bloodlines tied to them.. So it does seem theres a connection betwen France and Scotland....

but the truth has been blurred into legends and falsehoods...

what if Jacobs pillar was something like excalibur... only drawn out by the true ruler.. .....what if the royals have no clue on the true properties....what if its not the true stone and its the stone thats at the chateau.. or what if its really buried in Rosslyn castle.....

and yes Janus I think it has much to do with Hope and pandoras box and many many other such legends...tie them all together sort out the mess and get closer to the truth i guess...



[edit on 28-10-2005 by Mayet]

Val - Great Thread in Great New Forum!

I am getting confused though already - lol.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think even if you are flat out saying it, the topic is complex and some are going off in another direction.

I think what you are alluding to is that the apostasy is a lie, always assumed to be a lie, that suddenly becomes verified as truth, even though it is in fact a lie - causing the apostasy - which you feel to be a turning from faith, shattering the foundation of belief.

Granted that sounds crytic reading it back and this was not my intent, but is that what we are talking about? Where do I have it wrong?

Okay, I'm going to start quoting some books in order to address some of the questions and/or issues raised that I couldn't adequately speak to due to memory issues:

The following lengthy passage is from Holy Blood, Holy Grail concerning Isaac Newton:

...In 1989-90 he became associated with John Locke and an elusive, enigmatic individual named Nicolas Ftio de Duillier. Descended from Genevan aristocracy, Fatio de Duillier seems to have wafted with cavalier insouciance through the Europe of his time. On occasion he appears to have worked as a spy, usually against Louis XIV of france. He also appears to have been on intimate terms with every important scientist of the age. And from the time of his appearance in England he was Newton's single closest friend. For at least the next decade their two names were inextricably linked.

In 1696 Newton became warden of the Royal Mint and was subsequently instrumental in fixing the gold standard. in 1703 he was elected president of the Royal Society. Around this time he also became friendly with a young french Protestant refugee named Jean Desaguliers, who was one of the Royal Society's two curators of experiments. In the years that followed Desaguliers became one of the leading figures in the astonishing proliferation of Freemasonry throughout Europe. He was associated with such leading Masonic figures as James Anderson, the Chavalier Ramsay, and Charles Radclyffe. And in 1731, as master of the Masonic lodge at The Hague, he presided over the initiation of the first European prince to become a member of "the craft." This prince was Fracois, duke of Lorraine - who after his marriage to Maria Theresa of Austria become Holy Roman Emperor.

There is no record of Newton himself having been a Freemason. At the same time, however, he was a member of a semi-Masonic institution, the Gentleman's Club of Spalding - which included such notables as Alexander Pope. Moreover, certain of his attitudes and works reflect interests shared by Masonic figures of the period. Like many Masonic authors, for example, he esteemed noah more than Moses as the ultimate source of esoteric wisdom. As early as 1689 he had embarked on what he considered one of his most important works, a study of ancient monarchies. This work, The Chronology of Ancient Kingdoms Amended, attempted to establish the origins of cultures of antiquity. According to Newton ancient Judaism had been a repository of divine knowledge, which had subsequently been diluted, corrupted, and largely lost. Nevertheless, he believed that some of it had filtered down to Pythagoras, whose "music of the spheres" he regarded as a metaphor for the law of gravity. In his attempt to formulate a precise scientific methodology for dating events in both Scripture and classical myth, he employed Jason's events in both Scripture and classical myth, he employed Jason's quest for the Golden Fleece as a pivotal event; and like other Masonic and esoteric writers, he interpreted that quest as an alchemical metaphor. He also endeavored to discern Hermetic "correspondences" or correlations between music and architecture. And like many Masons he ascribed great significance to the configuration and dimensions of Solomon's temple. The dimensions and configuration of the temple he believed to conceal alchemical formulas; and he believed the ancient cermonies in the temple to have involved alchemical processes.

Such preoccupations on Newton's part were something of a revelation to us. Certainly they do not concur with his image as it is promulgated in our own centery - the image of the scientist who, once and for all, established the separation of natural philosophy from theology. In fact, however, Newton, more than any other scientist of his age, was steeped in Hermetic texts and, in his own attitudes, reflected Hermetic tradition. A deeply religious person, he was obsessed by the search for a divine unity and network of correspondences inherent in nature. This search led him into an exploration of sacred geometry and numerology - a study of the intrinsic properties of shape and number. By virtue of his association with Boyle, he was also a practicing alchemist - who in fact attirbuted a paramount importance to his alchemical work. In addition to personally annotated copies of the Rosicrucian manifestos, his library includd more than a hundred alchemical works. One of these, a volume by Nicolas Flamel, he had laboriously copied in his own hand. Newton's preoccupation with alchemy continued all his life. He maintained a voluminous and cryptic correspondence on the subject with Boyle, Locke, Fatio de Duillier, and others. One letter even has certain key words excised.

If Newton's scientific interests were less orthodox than we had at first imagined, so were his religious views. He was militantly, albeit quietly, hostile to the idea of the Trinity. He also repudiated the fashionable Deism of his time, which reduced the cosmos to a vast mechanical machine constructed by a celestial engineer. He questioned the divinity of Jesus and avidly collected all manuscripts pertaining to the issue. He doubted the complete authenticity of the New Testament, believing certain passages to be corruptions interpolated in the fifth century. He was deeply intrigued by som of the early Gnostic heresies and wrote a study of one of them.

Prompted by Fatio de Duillier, Newton also displayed a striking and surprising sympathy for the Camisards, or Prophets of Cevennes, who shortly after 1705 began appearing in Lond. So called because of their white tunics, the Camisards, like the CAthars before them, had arisen in the south of France. Like the Cathars they were vehemently apposed to Rome and stressed the supremacy of gnosis, or direct knowledge, over faith. Like the Cathars they queried Jesus' divinity. And like the Cathars they had been brutally suppressed by military force - in effect, an eighteenth-century Albigensian Crusade. Driven out of the Languedoc, the heretics found refuge in Geneva and London.

A few weeks before his death. Newton, aided by a few intimate friends, systematically burned numerous boxes of manuscripts and personal papers. With considerable surprise his contemporaries noted that he did not, on his deathbed, request last rites.

The previous has been taken from Holy Blood, Holy grail, Baigent, Leigh, Lincoln, Dell Publishing, New York, 1983, pp 429-431.

[edit on 10-28-2005 by Valhall]

Originally posted by Relentless
Val - Great Thread in Great New Forum!

I am getting confused though already - lol.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think even if you are flat out saying it, the topic is complex and some are going off in another direction.

I think what you are alluding to is that the apostasy is a lie, always assumed to be a lie, that suddenly becomes verified as truth, even though it is in fact a lie - causing the apostasy - which you feel to be a turning from faith, shattering the foundation of belief.

Granted that sounds crytic reading it back and this was not my intent, but is that what we are talking about? Where do I have it wrong?

Hi R! Glad to see you in this thread. Look forward to your thoughts. Yes, I am saying that the apostasy will be caused by a lie (a false secret) that has been intentionally hidden but intentionally made attractive to discovery by creating a mystery about it. It will be the thing that can deceive the very elect. That is my theory. And I believe this secret is that connected with Rennes-la-Chateau.

Thank you, Valhall, for re-invigorating my interest, so long lying dormant, on the topic of Rennes-Le-Chateau.

Your speculative letter to Hancock is most interesting and it is a pity he never took the time to answer. I suppose you still frequent his website, though, and I'm wondering if you are a regular on his board?
I check his news items regularly, since they, in many ways, dovetail with the material found here at ATS.

The shadow you mentioned on the Poussin painting 'The Shepherds of Arcadia' certainly is mysterious, and I agree that it does not follow natural shading, which the artist should have been expert in. Although I'm not so sure about what it might imply (small pun), the speculation about it's resemblence to the devil statue (I say Pan) supporting the benetier in the village church. Above the devil statue are 4 angels, each making the 4 seperate Signs of the Cross.
Between those 5 is written the phrase "By this sign shall ye conquer him" (French; Par ce signe tu le vaincras) which is different than the usual "By this sign shall ye conquer". The subtle difference is not lost on Henry Lincoln, in his small pamphlet, 'The Holy Place'.

If you haven't yet read this fascinating little booklet, I suggest you find a copy, published by Corgi Books in 1992.

Lincoln identifies the right side background landscape in the Poissin painting as being that of the rocks of Toustounes and Cardou as well as the crest of Blanchefort, all descending unmistakebly to the mound on which the village itself sits.

There are people who say the tomb, as it now, was erected in the 20th century, but, whatever that means, Poissin's excellent artistry establishes the proximity of the tomb to Rennes-le-Chateau even if it only was just in his minds eye.
When Lincoln studied the painting, he was intrigued by the positions of the shepherds staffs, by way of which he ascertains a pentagon as the underlying symbol upon which the tomb was painted. This is not only seen by the staff angles alone, but also on an x-ray plate which hinted that the tomb was painted on after the shepherds were rendered, since the tip of the shepherds staff to the right (kneeling figure) does not reveal itself to be in front of the tomb. (more mystery) I know I'm confused by these abnormalities.

Anyways, what does the pentagonal geometry have to do with this work? Lincoln feels it is the central theme of the painting and that it corrolates with the Saunieres parchments in that these items are also imbued with the same geometric symbolism.

And so, by that simple symbol so familiar to every human being on the planet, I see the connections to all sorts of things ancient and mysterious, with Venus and Mithra, Dionysus and Apollo, Hermes Trismegistus, John Dee and the hoary entourage of mystics marching back to the time of Gilgamesh and Enkidi.

Oh, I'm going to love this thread...

BTW...you never mentioned Fingerprints of the Gods which is, imo, a veritable treasure trove of leads and clues to the very mystery we are scratching away at.

m

[edit on 28-10-2005 by masqua]

Originally posted by Valhall
Yes, I am saying that the apostasy will be caused by a lie (a false secret) that has been intentionally hidden but intentionally made attractive to discovery by creating a mystery about it. It will be the thing that can deceive the very elect. That is my theory. And I believe this secret is that connected with Rennes-la-Chateau.

This is a great topic and interesting read Valhall, but mainly to me because of your framing (and knowing you to some degree). I won't bother quoting the bits and pieces that struck me (since you know what you said better than I), but basically your revelations from research gave you pause until such time you developed a reconciling theory with your faith.

Which includes rejecting "man made heresay" I think you called it in order to be able to accept the truth which is in a sense only a "lie" because of man's dogma and his efforts to conceal the secret to the contrary.

The "secret" then is actually true in your theory. It's some Church doctrine and popular Christian beliefs that's actually the lie.

It really doesn't matter if it's Savior-bones or a signed and notarized confession to body snatching by 12 of His closest peers being hidden. When exposed, the Church, ChristianityTM and certainly some of the New Testament must be false (a lie) for your premise that some of the New Testament prophecy is or will hold true.

I don't think you've reconciled anything. I think you're now a Jew.

[edit on 28-10-2005 by RANT]

Originally posted by masqua


BTW...you never mentioned Fingerprints of the Gods which is, imo, a veritable treasure trove of leads and clues to the very mystery we are scratching away at.

m

[edit on 28-10-2005 by masqua]

I have elsewhere though! The Sign and the Seal is what got me started on my quest through a series of books that at first glance seem unrelated, but are deeply, deeply interconnected. My favorite Graham Hancock book of all time is Fingerprints of the Gods.

Here is a sampling of the books I have (and have read! and they are all strangely connected):

Fingerprints of the Gods (Graham Hancock)
The Sign and the Seal (Graham Hancock)
POle Shift (John White)
The Keys of This Blood (Malachi Martin)
The Secret Doctrine of the Rosicrucians (Magus Incognito)
The Merovingian Kingdoms (Ian Wood)
The Templar Revelation (Picknett, Prince)
The History of Freemasonry (Albert Mackey)
The Message of the Sphinx (Graham Hancock, Bauval)
Holy Blood, Holy Grail (baigent, Leigh, Lincoln)
Bloodline of the Holy Grail (Laurence Gardner)
The Spear of Destiny (Ravenscroft)
New World Order: The Ancient Plan of Secret Societies (Still)
The Mars Mystery (Graham Hancock)
Behold a pale Horse (William Cooper)
The Tomb of God (Andrews, Schellenberger)
The Hiram Key (Knight, Lomas)
The Jesuits (Malachi Martin)

Believe it or not all these books connect...and probably more, since I don't have all my books unpacked. There is this great web of interconnectivity that takes place once you start chasing the rabbit through these various tunnels.

It's a fascinating realm.

RANT,

Just to show you the personal struggle I have had over whether to discuss this...

Over 2 years ago I started this thread...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

and erased almost everything I had posted in it.

Followed shortly by this thread which attempts to discuss with others the struggle and questions I was trying to answer inside myself...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

I do not question the scriptural accounts. I do question the man-made "add-ons" that have occurred over the past two millenia. I do not believe there was any double or anything in conflict to the scriptures. But I don't particularly care if there are contradictions to the "add-ons" created by men of questionable intent. It is these add-ons that have created a situation that can fulfill the biblical prophecies. The secret will be false most likely. But because of the man-made false teachings...it could end up being true and have the same effect.

In other words...I don't give a rat's a** whether Christ was married and had children. Unfortunately...many many people are greatly offended by the idea and deem it heretical in nature. That fact alone supports my concerns.

[edit on 10-28-2005 by Valhall]

Originally posted by Relentless

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think even if you are flat out saying it, the topic is complex and some are going off in another direction.

Oops sorry for going off track..

there is just so much about this one story, so many twists and turns in the search to decipher the one thing. The chateau, the templars, rosslyn castle, the french, the scots, jesus, the crusades, the origins of masonry, the everything....

You are so right, Mayet. This one subject encompasses, or at least touches in a significant way that cannot be ignored, so many other areas.

That is why it consumed me for five years straight! LOL

In response to wcip's statements about the use of image in Genesis and the Revelation:

In all instances of Genesis 1: 26, 27 the Hebrew word used is defined in Strong's Exhaustive Concordance as:

tselem: from an unused root meaning to shade; a phantom, i.e. (figuratively) illusion, resemblance; hence, a representative figure, especially an idol - image, vain shew.

But also Strong's list a second interpretation of this word (Chaldean):

an idolatrous figure - form, image.

In other words, not a real positive connotation.

From Gesenius' Hebrew-Chaldee Lexicon:

A shadow, metaphorically used of any thing vain

an image, likeness (so called from it shadowing forth...an image, idol)

second definition

an image, idol

So again, not that positive of a connotation. Definitely a "copy". Definitely not something to worship.



[edit on 10-28-2005 by Valhall]