Child labor laws are idiotic

In America we have children at the age of eleven and some younger that are learning a trade on the streets, one that will serve them for the rest of their lives, sell drugs, steal cars, rob people, mostly the elderly, burglarizes homes and businesses, and kill.

The training is free and most of the delinquents enjoy doing it.

I own a rental house that is located in one of those bad areas that encircle most large cities, it often needs repairs yet I can’t find anyone to go into that neighborhood to do the work, the police avoid the area.

So I go there and fix things, paint things and whatever. I have been painting the house since last week. Next door lives a woman and two of her children, they often have friends over who spend much of there time on the porch getting loud and obnoxious.

It’s obvious they are gang members they have their colors and they walk around dressed like grim reapers, with their hoods over their heads----they dressed this way all summer---in the heat. Go figure.

I have worked on the house all summer, and I bring with me my tools and other equipment, some of it very expensive. They watched me, never talk to me but I know they know that they could knock me in the head, take my stuff and sell it, there would be little I could do, legally that is.

I had thought about offering the two boys that lived there an opportunity to learn a trade and make some money, and perhaps become productive citizens, and boring stuff like that.

I talked to a few friends one a lawyer about doing that and all of them told me it was a bad idea and against the law, child labor law.

I learned all my skills by working for people like me when I was a young kid, I started working when I was eleven and purchased my first fixer uper when I was twenty five, after I got out of the army. I have fixed up and sold many houses since.

Is it possible that our stupid child labor laws are responsible for all the crime we have in our cities?

We won’t let our children work, what else do they have to do but look for trouble and create hell for the rest of us?

There were child labor laws when I was growing up but my parents didn’t care, they expected me to get a job and help out with the family finances, and so I did.

I grew up in that filthy neighborhood and had moved away many years ago, but I still own that property. When I was growing up there many of my friends lived in public housing and like there parents never held a job, didn’t want a job, and their parents didn’t care that they spent their time on the streets.

Most of my friends ended up in jail, those still alive are living in public housing in that same area, because they have no skills.

I say take the punks off the streets and put them to work learning a trade, there are lots of people like me willing to teach them what we know, but I’m not going to break the law or face a lawsuit. That law needs to be changed.

Unfortunately, that’s probably never going to happen, god forbid our children get their hands dirty learning a trade.

I would say that kids do need their education first (homeschool or whatever), but I see no problem with a 12-year-old with an after-school job. But you have these liability issues--parents can sue if child gets hurt. Where my husband works, they will not hire anyone under 18, most likely for that very reasons. Lots of machines to operate there--I know firsthand because I worked there myself once.

My dad had only a sixth-grade education. Someone took him aside and taught him meat-cutting. Dad was making big bucks in that line of work in the 60s and 70s until he became disabled. Those skills came in handy in other ways. Dad taught Mom about meat, so she knew how to pick the good stuff at the store.

You have voted sleeper for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have one more vote left for this month.
IMH the most important thing is for young kids to get a education to ensure they can read and write. I think teaching kids a trade during after school hours is GREAT idea. Just get the parents to sign a waiver so you cant be sued.

I paying them to help for a few hours a week would be against child labor laws, which are mainly geared towards preventing children from working full time.

You'd need to look into your state statue.

The trade was introduced into the schools for children that could not afford a college education it was call technical training and the state used to pay for it.

I remember in high school when students used learn skills for jobs that they didn't knee a college degree.

Now a days is not like that with so many funding cuts on school programs you only going to find some elective that will fall in that category in schools.

Or you always can go to your nearest job corp if you can not afford college.

To bad.

When I was 16 I needed a work permit from my high school. I think I had to get it from the counseling center there or something...it's been so long ago...like way back in 1989.

Originally posted by Amethyst
When I was 16 I needed a work permit from my high school. I think I had to get it from the counseling center there or something...it's been so long ago...like way back in 1989.

Back when I was in my teens in the 70s we also had to get a workers permit to work during the summer in government backed jobs for teens.

I never got one, so I had to spend the summers in bible schools.

there's alot of jobs open to 16 year olds.....if the economy is running good.....although there are also restrictions on what kind of work they can do. they can't run alot of machinery for example. they can't serve alchohol. ect....

what is this with all of a sudden people are wanting to put our kids to work anyways......are people getting nervous at the thought that homeland security might dry up their labor pool?

Originally posted by dawnstar

what is this with all of a sudden people are wanting to put our kids to work anyways......are people getting nervous at the thought that homeland security might dry up their labor pool?

What you are saying is that it’s better to leave our kids on the streets to rob, vandalize burglarize, spray graffiti on all available building walls, and kill each other.

Our children should not be allowed to get their hands dirty learning a trade that would make them productive rather than rootless?

Children that have no activities after school will find things to do on their own, and so far what they are finding to do on their own has turned good neighborhoods into hell holes.

Parents can't put them to work, they can't control them, and no one knows what to do with them because of the asinine labor laws.

The labor laws were tried and they have failed, put the kids to work, or continue to build more and more prisons to house the tugs that these aimless children will turn into.

Every day in America hundreds more become incarcerated in our prisons, most because they have no skills.

Skills come from on the job training. The government has done a bad job with it, so it has to be done in the private sector, and the private sector won’t touch it because of the stupid laws.

hmmm....."rob, vandalize burglarize, spray graffiti on all available building walls, and kill each other. ".....I raised three boys to adulthood, none of them did any of those things....of course, I was always around to tell them such things weren't to be done also!!!

the labor laws don't prohibit kids over 16 from working in many businesses, they just restrict what they can and cannot do. they can't operate machinery, they can't sell alchohol, ect. and it doesn't prohibit kids younger than that even from having paper routes, mowing or shoveling the snow for their elderly (or lazy) neighbors, or running errands for them, ect. but, well, talk to some of the elderly, and see just how much they wish that some kid would come by and offer such services! and how grateful they are if they found someone to do it at an affordable price!!! my mom lived in an area saturated with kids, yet up until the year she died, she shoveled for herself, and a few of the older neighbors around her.....she said the kids just weren't out like they used to be...

the problem isn't the labor laws!!

"rob, vandalize burglarize, spray graffiti on all available building walls, and kill each other. "

so I assume that what you are saying is that kids that we can't even trust enough not to do these things, we should give dangerous machinery for them to play with...
I don't think so, look at what alot of these kids are doing to themselves, their friends, and complete strangers when we give them cars to play with!!!

here's a clue....give the future generations cleaner air and water, and food!!! see if they don't act a little more "responsible"!



[edit on 22-10-2005 by dawnstar]

I will agree with the fact that some of the labor laws are asinine. Here in Michigan, You can start working at 14. However you can't work past 7 at night and you can only work 18 hours a week. The dumb rule about it is you can't even use a pairing knife until your 16. 16 to 18 have less restrictions but are still not abble to operate some forms of machinery.
(You need a work permit from your counceling office to work under 18 as well in MI)

As far as this being the cause for crime rate, nope not buying the arguement. I have plenty of friends who have had summer construction jobs as well as a number of other trade jobs since they were 16. Still didn't keep them from doing some stupid stuff.

Originally posted by silentlonewolf
(You need a work permit from your counceling office to work under 18 as well in MI)

Actually, that's where I grew up--in the Detroit area. I moved to Ohio a few weeks before my 20th birthday.

I do find it odd, though, that you can't use a paring knife on the job at 14 yet you can help your mom with dinner. But it goes back to what I said about liability--some people nowadays are just so sue-happy it isn't funny.

Originally posted by dawnstar
I don't think so, look at what alot of these kids are doing to themselves, their friends, and complete strangers when we give them cars to play with!!!

Kids are out of control because we pamper them and don’t hold them accountable for the damage they do. We are creating monsters that prey on their fellow neighbors, the elderly and anyone that strays into their part of town.

We are concerned that they will get hurt by working with machinery, yet its ok for then to maim and kill each other in drive by shootings?

Kids have to much time on their hands, and if their parents can’t keep them busy and out of trouble, and the government hasn’t been able to solve the problem, do we keep building more prisons?

here's a clue....give the future generations cleaner air and water, and food!!! see if they don't act a little more "responsible"!
by dawnstar]

Well, we can wait for the world to become a perfect place, don’t hold your breath, or we can work on fixing the problems in this imperfect world.

Most countries that have lots of pollution, no clean water and little food, don’t have the juvenile crime we have in American. Most countries wouldn’t put up with children terrorizing their citizens, regardless of the conditions the children grew up in.

In America children don’t have to be rich to be spoiled rotten, all they need is stupid laws to keep them on the streets at all hours of the day or night acting like crazy people-----just don’t let them get their hands dirty learning a worthwhile trade, or else you will be in violation of law.

Originally posted by sleeper

Kids are out of control because we pamper them and don’t hold them accountable for the damage they do.

no, they are out of control because judgemental parents, who force ideals and beliefs on their children, who pressure their children and react too harshly when they dissapoint them.
many kids who do drugs, abuse themselves, etc do it because parents ignore their own actions then blame society or the children themselves for everything without fixing it.

Originally posted by namehere

no, they are out of control because judgemental parents, who force ideals and beliefs on their children, who pressure their children and react too harshly when they dissapoint them.
many kids who do drugs, abuse themselves, etc do it because parents ignore their own actions then blame society or the children themselves for everything without fixing it.

My dad had absolute control over his family, he was a tyrant, yet all his children turned out fine, we are all productive citizens.

I have treated my children with love and respect, the opposite of what I grew up with, and my children turned out great, and all of my nephews and nieces are doing well.

Therefore, I don't know what the secret is, perhaps we all have to take responsibility for our actions and stop looking for excuses to blame others----regardless of how difficult life treats you.

Millions of children grew up in poverty and with horrible parents, like I did, yet we didn't feel the need to take it out on society.

Originally posted by Amethyst

Actually, that's where I grew up--in the Detroit area.

My claim to fame is I grew up a block off 8 mile, but never technically lived in Detroit.

I do find it odd, though, that you can't use a paring knife on the job at 14 yet you can help your mom with dinner. But it goes back to what I said about liability--some people nowadays are just so sue-happy it isn't funny.

yep was working for arbys when I first started going to college. Was shocked when I heard that one and it is for liability purposes, the state protecting the food industry.

Also to note though, that because of the strict restrictions arbys no longer will hire 14 year olds (even though they techinically can't tell them "We don't hire under the age of sixteen) since this is age discrimination. I believe they tightened up some of the laws even more here but I can't say for sure.

Originally posted by silentlonewolf

Originally posted by Amethyst

Actually, that's where I grew up--in the Detroit area.

My claim to fame is I grew up a block off 8 mile, but never technically lived in Detroit.

I used to live on Edgewood Place, in Ferndale, which ended at Eight Mile. Right near those Jewish cemeteries.

My first job was at a Wendy's on Woodward.

Be vigilant about safety in the workplace. Every 30 seconds, a teen worker is injured on the job. One teen dies due to workplace injury every five days. The National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health (NIOSH) estimates that 230,000 workers under the age of 18 will be injured on the job this year and between 60-70 will die due to workplace injury.

www.nclnet.org...

So labour laws are in a place for a reason. You can read the entire link, it's long, but I will add a few quotes from the same article.

According to NIOSH, the second highest number of workplace fatalities among youth are in the restaurant and retail store industries. Between 1992 – 2000, 63 percent of these deaths were due to assaults and violent acts, most of which were homicides according to NIOSH. These industries are highly vulnerable to crime.

Construction is a dangerous occupation for all workers and construction sites are full of hazards. In 2002, construction continued to have the greatest number of workplace deaths of any major industry. The top causes of death are falls from roofs or structures, crushing or runovers by construction equipment operated by someone else, electric shocks from equipment installation or tool use, and lifting operations according to the Construction Industry Research Center at the University of Tennessee.

I've been around quite a few construction sites and I know for a fact that teens treat the equipment like toys and many don't have the disipline to be working in such a dangerous environment. Ironicly, the above two examples are places that are willing to hire younger workers.

The agricultual industry is also a large area that many teens find work, be it the family farm or a commercial operation, and it's also the largest contributer to on the job injuries and death.

Agriculture is the most dangerous industry for young workers, accounting for 42 percent of all work-related fatalities of young workers between 1992 and 2000. Unlike other industries, half the young victims in agriculture were under age 15. According to the U.S. Department of Labor’s Bureau of Labor Statistics, among young agricultural workers aged 15-17, the risk of fatal injury is four times the risk for young workers in other workplaces. Some of the safety hazards associated with farm work include:

*

machinery
*

confined spaces
*

work at elevations
*

work around livestock
*

poultry and seafood processing

Near the bottom of this report was the one that surprised me.
Ten year olds out selling candy and stuff out on the streets, and without adult supervision.

Children as young as ten years old are recruited to sell candy, magazine subscriptions, and other items in neighborhoods or on street corners after dark, under dangerous conditions, and unsupervised by adults. It is a job that may require traveling in vans to unfamiliar neighborhoods in distant cities, and often across state lines. “On-the-streets” work is dangerous due to increased risk of motor vehicle injury (as either pedestrian or passenger) and vulnerability to assaults and abductions. Additionally, many of the vehicles used have not been inspected for road-worthiness, and many of the drivers aren’t insured.

Sure life is full of dangers, but we should be able to find meaningful employment for the nations youth without sacrificing life and limb.

Originally posted by Amethyst

I used to live on Edgewood Place, in Ferndale, which ended at Eight Mile. Right near those Jewish cemeteries.

My first job was at a Wendy's on Woodward.

haha Hazel Park at 8 and John R first street North of 8 mile Still have friends that live over in Ferndale too.

originally posted by anxietydisorder

I've been around quite a few construction sites and I know for a fact that teens treat the equipment like toys and many don't have the disipline to be working in such a dangerous environment.

Yep took four years of woodshop and cabinet making in High School. Worst thing they ever gave us was access to the air compress and staple guns. Now I don't even need to go into what the autoshop was like

But to be fair I have known some fully grown adults to do some dumb stuff. The stories are hilarious but still if you follow the Mind of Mencia show, you know the kind of people I'm talking about

Ten year olds out selling candy and stuff out on the streets, and without adult supervision.

My first job was selling newspaper subscriptions for The Macomb Daily. I was 12 years old when I started, worked for a year. My schedule was this Monday-Friday 4pm til 10pm saturday 10am-6pm. We were sort of supervised, and paid on commission. My mom didn't nessecarily like it but supported me wanting the job. Learned some from it , primarily never look for a job on a lousy commission pay rate. I know my mom had to fill a waiver or some type of paperwork at the time, looking back not sure how it was legal.



[edit on 24-10-2005 by silentlonewolf]

Originally posted by anxietydisorder


Sure life is full of dangers, but we should be able to find meaningful employment for the nations youth without sacrificing life and limb.

After reading your post my god it sounds like a war zone would be a safer place for our children.

Perhaps all those statistics are a bit over done in order to justify stupid laws.

For one, like you stated, this is a dangerous world, and putting our children in safe places or bubbles, is the worst things you can do, they have to learn how to be safe and you can't do that in a padded cell.

Many constructions accidents happen to children playing at constructions sites, where they shouldn’t be in the first place. The questions is why do parents allow them to play there?

I build houses and there is nothing one can do to keep kids out of the construction site, put up fences they climb over them, I even caught small children with bolt-cutters, to cut through the locks on the gate.

Unsupervised children will find trouble, that’s in their nature, the only cure to that is make accountable the adults who are responsible for their children’s behavior.

We don't need laws to protect our children we need laws to protect us from our children.

Have you seen the crime statistics? Most violent crimes are done by unsupervised children against adults and other children.

Every second of the day and night some child is stealing, robbing, raping, mugging and killing some one-----so who is it that needs protecting?