UK Considers Rape Charges Against Men Who Pay For Sex

Excerpted from:
MSNBC-Reuters Oct. 15, 2005
www.msnbc.msn.com...

U.K. may start charging johns with rape
Concerns about forced prostitution prompt calls for stiffer penalties

LONDON - Men who pay for sex with women who have been trafficked into the sex trade could be prosecuted for rape, a British government minister told a Sunday newspaper.

“It’s time for honest language. When a man has sex with a frightened, beaten and intimidated woman there is only one word to describe it, and that is rape,” former government minister Denis MacShane, who has campaigned against trafficking, told the paper.

The remarks did not suggest Britain would change its laws, but could indicate a change in the way they are interpreted.

Paying prostitutes for sex in Britain is not a crime, although “kerb crawling” on streets looking for prostitutes is a punishable offense, as is pimping.

*please visit link above for more details*
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How is the average John supposed to know when he is about to have sex with a prostitute that has been forced into it versus one that has not been forced into it?

If they are going to change the interpretation of the laws to help stop the gangs and pimps that run the forced prostitution rings, then they better provide the otherwise ignorant John with a means to make the distinction.

I can just see it now:
John: "Hey Baby, what's an hour or two run?"
Diva Honey: "Bout 500"
John: "Ok, you have your Forced Prostitution Declaration and your driver's license?"
Diva Honey:"Yeah, right here."
John: "Ok, looks good. Just sign my Release right here..."

A couple hours later, as he is dozing off, she quietly slips that little release into her purse and slithers out the door. Next day he doesn't even think about it, and trods on with life. Until, that is, the police show up at his door two days later.

Prostitution is illegal, its also a hotbed for enforced slavery in the UK anyway ( i cant speak for other nations). Frightened young girls, and i mean young (10+) are forced into prostitution by being beaten, put on drugs or being forced to watch the murder of a girl who wont comply.

If there was no market for this horific industry there would be no need to have the girls here. So a rape charge is getting of lightly in my eyes. I think your post makes light of a situation which is wrong and abhorrant, and shows your ignorance.

Originally posted by bobsa
Prostitution is illegal...

Why don't you take that up with MSNBC.

Paying prostitutes for sex in Britain is not a crime

Originally posted by bobsa
I think your post makes light of a situation which is wrong and abhorrant, and shows your ignorance.

You can take that up with me. There's a gripe/complaints feature on your control panel where you may suggest all manner of ridiculous things we'll most likely ignore but at least you won't be derailing topics or insulting other members.

[edit on 16-10-2005 by RANT]

Originally posted by bobsa
I think your post makes light of a situation which is wrong and abhorrant, and shows your ignorance.

Yeah I made light of the situation which is wrong and abhorrent by bringing it here to share it with you. Not by my commentary. I will forgive your ignorance, however. Try again.

The original post did not appear as a quote from any publication but came across as the writers own personal opinion, paying for sex in britain is a crime, i know i live here !!!

If they are going to change the interpretation of the laws to help stop the gangs and pimps that run the forced prostitution rings, then they better provide the otherwise ignorant John with a means to make the distinction.

I stand by my comment, prostitution is abhorrent. Most prostitutes are drug addicts who sell themselves to support a habit.

"I can just see it now:
John: "Hey Baby, what's an hour or two run?"
Diva Honey: "Bout 500"
John: "Ok, you have your Forced Prostitution Declaration and your driver's license?"
Diva Honey:"Yeah, right here."
John: "Ok, looks good. Just sign my Release right here..." "

How is the above not making light of a serious crime, and how am i derailing the topic? i am talking about the topic and its implications !

ahh RANT, please....have fun, K? I mean I really have nothing more to say except a) chances are high that accuser has not read source article, b) has not considered source, and c) has not quite understood where I am coming from on this.

What else is new? This is ATS! I lub it.

[edit on 16-10-2005 by TrueAmerican]

Originally posted by bobsa
How is the above not making light of a serious crime, and how am i derailing the topic? i am talking about the topic and its implications !

That's fine in a sense, but not the tact of attacking this topic's presentation or the poster's "ignorance."

It leads to things like this off topic philosophical discussion of the nature of discussion board etiquette we're having now.

There's no reason you should be aware of this, but you just happen to be coming in right in the midst of a real problem this community is having with little authoritarian hum bugs jumping in on any topic or presentation they don't like to say how irresponsible or offensive or typical, etc. some post they don't like may be as nothing more than an intimidation tactic to restrict discussion and prohibit member expression.

And it's going to stop.

im sorry if i caused offence, but this is an emotive subject.

there are bound to be emotive posts on subjects like this.

Originally posted by TrueAmerican
What else is new? This is ATS! I lub it.

Me too.

Those that don't need posting bans.

And no problem, bobsa. Just jumping on the 'trend' before it goes any further is all.

I think solution is obvious. Legal prostititutes should be licensed to prove they are in the country legally, and not being forced into it. They should also be regularly tested for STDs in order to keep their license.

People who engage with unicensed protitutes could face any number of crimes depending the sitution of the woman.

[edit on 10/16/2005 by djohnsto77]

Might sound cold hearted, but i fail to have any sympathy for prostitues. All they'd need to do is walk to the nearest police station with details of their situation and who's the pimp, ask for protection and bingo, their out of it. They could also just leave town and head for a different city. Fact is most are just crack-whores working for their next fix.

I am sorely tempted to agree DJ.

Although I do believe this this and the drugs industry are not only connected as far as criminal activities go, but illegal drugs are usually detrimental to the user whereas I believe that prostitution is harmful to both parties. Mostly the prostitute, but I would believe the average client too.

I have heard stories of 'agony aunt' prostitutes etc. and that they provide a service for the community and while I wouldn't dismiss every such account as imaginary I don't believe such cases are a numerous as some might wich to suggest. Rerferred to sometimes as 'the worlds oldest profession' this is not a problem which is going to go away though, even with such strong-arm tactics as put forward here. The 'profession' will continue and so the suffering of those involved will continue untill it is policed to ensure that those involved are consenting.

It does seem absurd to suggest that this, something which I consider as harmful (for the majority of those inviolved) as hard drugs, be accepted. But I fail to see a choice except accepting and policing the industry. It will not cease to exist through these new suggested punishments or any future ones, only be forced further underground. And as the risks increase, so the financial rewards for the most ruthless will increase and so conditions will undoubtedly deteriorate for those unfortunate to find themselves the bottom rung, the saleable product of this industry.

Jak

Originally posted by picard_is_actually_a_grey
Might sound cold hearted, but i fail to have any sympathy for prostitues. All they'd need to do is walk to the nearest police station with details of their situation and who's the pimp, ask for protection and bingo, their out of it.

Yeah okay. I remember a few years ago there was a prostitute that was gang raped and beaten senseless.. she went to the police and they offered to charge them with theft.

They could also just leave town and head for a different city. Fact is most are just crack-whores working for their next fix.

Addictions they are usually coerced into by their pimps in the first place.. that is how they establish control.

Originally posted by bobsa
....paying for sex in britain is a crime, i know i live here !!!

Just for the record, prostitution is legal in the UK. I checked. MSNBC and Reuters are absolutely correct. So I think you should take that up with your government and a local law book down at your friendly neighboorhood library. They do exist, ya know. On the other hand, you could always try google- aweful quick, and pretty convincing.

www.sw5.info...

Prostitution - exchanging participation in sexual activities for money or other goods - has always been legal in the UK. It's actually arguably more acceptable to charge for your sexual skills than your cooking or brewing skills - you need a certificate or licence for the latter two!

However, many of the activities that prostitution often involve are illegal.

www.citizenspace.co.uk

The existing laws
The existing laws state that Prostitution is not illegal. However, activities associated with it, including soliciting, advertising using cards in telephone boxes and kerb crawling are criminal offences. The law also specifically acts against those who exploit women and men through brothel-keeping and other offences, and those who abuse children through prostitution.

Now, what were you saying?

[edit on 16-10-2005 by TrueAmerican]

Soliciting for sex, is a civil offence in the uk. The link below is from the BBC.

Soliciting is illegal

lol, soliciting may be, but the act of paying a woman for sex in itself is legal. Try again. /taps foot.

Just as the "war on drugs," and other "wars," on poverty, and so forth, such a proposal should set off alarms that the government itself is involved in prostitution. At the same time looking more deeply it looks like price supports for pimps, while putting away the cheaper street deals. Under this proposal safe sex will mean 1000 quid a pop, and don't forget to pay off yer bobbies who will become "boobies," for the local syndicate run by the government. You should be sickened by such proposals as always inevitably evidencing the same design, more tyranny, and a controlled market.

It should be common knowledge that governments bring in dope, set up private prisons in America, and hire cheap labor at 25 american cents an hour, with no choice but to work or go into the cooler. Gee the profit margins get these kids coming and going.

If you really want to get rid of prostitution, start by holding your fellow secret society members accountable, and prosecuting them or ostracising them first regardless of your own "Royal Order of Water Buffalos oaths." Take up the issue at your next Bilderberger meeting, and tell them you don't want anyone there to profit from the global prostitution crime under such global companies as Dynacorp. But do not bother attacking "Johns," to increase your profits and make the whole thing more secretive and subject to more bribery.

Originally posted by TrueAmerican
lol, soliciting may be, but the act of paying a woman for sex in itself is legal. Try again. /taps foot.

You are correct, the act of prostitution itself is legal - it is soliciting that is a crime.
It is also illegal to run a brothel (sometimes if many hookers/escorts live under one roof it can be considered a brothel) but there are grey areas of the law.

Captain, yeah I know this, but bobsa just doesn't seem to get it, and wants to keep arguing the point. And on top of that, if you have read the first posts in the thread, he wanted to use his misunderstanding as a basis by which to attack me and call me ignorant in his first post. Needless to say, I don't take kindly to that, so please excuse my tone in the subsequent posts.

I like making friends here at ATS, but if someone is going to come out of the gate firing, especially based on false claims, it leaves me not much of a choice but to fire back. But it's ok, I am over it.

simple....make it legal. give em what they want. then it can be business run. no more pimps. STD's will be less likely because you will have to use condoms and it will be set fees. if a women wants to prostitute, what the problem? if you make it legal then forcing women into it probably wouldnt be, anybody that wanted to own a place like that could. and then you hire just like any other place. you'll either go out of business or you make business. plain and simple. why not legalize it, then it can be contained and hell even taxed.