Calling all Religions. (+aithiests & Agnostics)

Out of all the Believers of Religion here (any), how many of you can actually prove that A God exists?

To The Non Believers: Come back and check and see if your belief that there is no God will falter. Prove the Believers wrong. Prove to us that there is no god.

To the Believers: Prove to the Non believers that THERE IS A GOD. No mumbo jumbo please, lets keep this purley logical and mildly scientific. (also please post you're contradictions or things that do not make sense to you about God in a LOGICAL sense. (ex. No "i dont get the virgin birth")

Please keep comments to a Minimum of 5 Lines worth.
Lets also keep it neat and tidy; please follow this guideline

Username
Siding (Believer/Non)
-----[empty space]-----
Explanation

OMG, you do realise how insane this could become don't you?

def.out

[edit on 12-10-2005 by deafence#]

Anything either side says cannot be backed up as proof by any means known to the present day mankind.

This will get nowhere and its basically talked about in nearly every spiritual thread.

Thats my 2 cents.

Extremely Simple.

Aliens have stated to some individuals whom they speak with that a higher being, with powers over all - out equivilent of "god" exists.

To say the least....there is a fair bit of historical evidence to support christianity, and biblical stories.
That's not to say that christianity is the only "real" religion, just saying there is evidence to support religeous things which point to the existance of god, of some sort.

Although these things are hard to support, and it is all debatable, it is enough for me.

People, you'll find it just as hard to disprove the existence of god, a higher power, whatever you chose to call it, as christians and religious folk will find it to prove the existence of god, thats why its called "faith"!!

If like me, you studied a heck of a lot of science (Big Bang, Grand Unified Theory etc) you'll still be left with a LOT of unanswered questions, and probably a couple you didnt even have when you started.

Personally I dont believe in anything. Now carry on going round in circles

Originally posted by ivanglam
Out of all the Believers of Religion here (any), how many of you can actually prove that A God exists?




Please keep comments to a Minimum of 5 Lines worth.
Lets also keep it neat and tidy; please follow this guideline
LMAO

There is no way to prove God exists or doesn't exist.

Originally posted by SpittinCobra
There is no way to prove God exists or doesn't exist.

There is a way. God himself can prove it.


---

Originally posted by mr conspiracy

Originally posted by SpittinCobra
There is no way to prove God exists or doesn't exist.

There is a way. God himself can prove it.


---

Sure, who is going to believe you talked to God? It would have to be a world wide talk.

There is no way to prove that God doesn't exist. God is either an idea, a myth, a being, a creator or nothing at all, depending on people's opinions. So, the ability to disprove this particular negative (God doesn't exist) does not exist.

The burden of proof is on those who claim the existence of God. And I have no interest in proving it either way, as I am not at all sure if there is a God, or what it is, if it is.

Originally posted by genuineninja
People, you'll find it just as hard to disprove the existence of god, a higher power, whatever you chose to call it, as christians and religious folk will find it to prove the existence of god, thats why its called "faith"!!

Thats right, its called faith, believing in something that you have no way of proving, people nowdays focus to much on what is logical and what is not IMO, your not going to figure out all the mysteries of the world scientifically...you have to think outside of the box sometimes.

Originally posted by mr conspiracy

Originally posted by SpittinCobra
There is no way to prove God exists or doesn't exist.

There is a way. God himself can prove it.

Correct and trust me, he will, and when that happens all logic will be nullified.

Read all of this:

Look in the mirror. You are alive what ever created you ie mother is god like. As for creation where it all started is god. I don't care if it was from a friggin rock hitting a planet and a million years of evolution to create water,dirt,plants,monkies than humans that than would be your god. Who created the rock that hit earth would be god and so on and so forth. Everything comes from somewhere so if you belive in harps and clouds or you don't belive in anything you still can't deny you exsist and to exsist is force of admition of god. So for you to show proof of no god you will have to prove to me you do not exsist.

Sorry I broke the 5 line limit but if anyone can challenge my statement I will


With that said the question is what is god and with that said it is everything. I am god as much as you are. As we are said domain of what creation originated from.

The interesting part is how it works when you die what is next? Any control of self? Any memory of past?

As far as faith goes its an easy out (nothing wrong with that at all) but for some of us we require more answers. Depending on how much you want the answer is how much you will obtain. How and where you look is most critical. If you consult a book that may help but will not give all the answers you seek. You will have to look deep inside and outside. Also if you do decide to look in place of question you can learn a lot by looking at the ritual of the every day person. If you analize yourself or others you will see you mock god every single day.

Now if I may add an interesting comparison. The people question what or where god is, is for the fact of fear of death and what is next. Can you just die and never exsist? Not really, take your computer for example you can make a "new folder" and than you delete it but where does it go? It never really exsists yet it does...Thus is life a mystery and a beauty.


[edit on 12-10-2005 by japike]

LOL - Just the replies I expected.

But, contrary to popular belief, one can prove God DOES exist. Whether or not it is the christian view of a God; perhaps we shall not know 'till the day we perrish.

Ok Lets start proving the Logic behind the organized insanity which is God.

There are two ways the Universe could have been created:

1. A Infinate Chan of Causeality, or
2. God

Ok. Now why Infinate Chains of Causeality are not possible (logically)

There are only 2 types of infinite chains.

ex1. Linear Infinate Chains

... -> B -> C-> ..... (infinity caused B, caused C, caused infinity)

Linear Chains are not Possible in Space and Time (the dimensions we live in) Anything measurable cannot be infinate. If All events in the chain are measurable, and in Space and Time, measurable things cannot be infinate, then the only possible explanation is that Linear Chains of Causeality are not possible.

Well if Linear Chains are not possible what about Infinate Cycles?

ex2. Infinate Cycles

... (D) -> A -> B -> C -> D -> (A) ...

So A is the Begining. B and C are indetween times, and D is the end days.

A goes to B, goes to C, goes to D, goes to A, and so on. This makes a lot more sense than Infinate Lines, but still has its loop holes (don't mind the pun)

So A caused B right? Seems logical. The begining caused the inbetween days. Well, what cause A? Ohh, thats right. D did. But wait didnt you say that A was the FIRST? So what started the Cycle?

Selecting any one point as the starting point would render this Chain inaccurate. It would then have a Starting point and would no longer be infinate.

That starting point, we call God.

If infinate chains cannot exist in space and time, then God is the only option. Some, I bet are still skeptical. But I am not asking you to believe what the christians, islamics, or hindu's (arguably) believe, I am simply asking that you accept the undenyable thruth that there is A GOD, and that it IS PROVEABLE.

Happy Digestion of the Information.

To the Believers - Never let anyone convince you otherwise; there is a God
To the Non-Believers - Theres the PROOF, logically presented, to show A God DOES exist.



Deny Ignorance.

Originally posted by japike
Sorry I broke the 5 line limit but if anyone can challenge my statement I will

No, you are doing great

Its only a 5 line Minimum.

Originally posted by ivanglam
There are two ways the Universe could have been created:
1. A Infinate Chan of Causeality, or
2. God

This is an assumption. Any 'proof' based on an assumption isn't proof at all.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic

Originally posted by ivanglam
There are two ways the Universe could have been created:
1. A Infinate Chan of Causeality, or
2. God

This is an assumption. Any 'proof' based on an assumption isn't proof at all.

How is it an assumption. What other ways could we all 'be' ?

Originally posted by SpittinCobra
There is no way to prove God exists or doesn't exist.

I agree, I also believe there is a God, but I have no proof beyond my belief that God exists.

This has been hotly debated by legedary philosophers for thousands of years, no reason to start another thread about it

Originally posted by ivanglam
How is it an assumption. What other ways could we all 'be' ?

I don't know. But if you're talking proof, in a scientific way, you need to prove every step of the theory. What you're doing here is assumption of a false theory. Not necessarily that it's false, it just hasn't been proven as true. You can't use something unproven as a basis for a scientific theory.

We may discover something in the future that adds a 4th, 5th or 6th way that we could have come about.

An assumption is something taken for granted or accepted as true without proof. Like when people thought the earth was flat, they thought they could prove it. When they tried to prove it by sailing off to the edge, they actually disproved it. They worked on an assumption that the earth is flat.

Maybe you're not speaking in scientific terms, but it sounds like it to me, what with all the talk of infinite chains of causality and all.

Don't get me wrong. I don't have any problems with anyone believing in God, but God's existence is a belief, not a fact. I have beliefs, too. I don't try to prove them to anyone. I can't. They're beliefs.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic

Originally posted by ivanglam
How is it an assumption. What other ways could we all 'be' ?

I don't know. But if you're talking proof, in a scientific way, you need to prove every step of the theory. What you're doing here is assumption of a false theory. Not necessarily that it's false, it just hasn't been proven as true. You can't use something unproven as a basis for a scientific theory.

We may discover something in the future that adds a 4th, 5th or 6th way that we could have come about.

An assumption is something taken for granted or accepted as true without proof. Like when people thought the earth was flat, they thought they could prove it. When they tried to prove it by sailing off to the edge, they actually disproved it. They worked on an assumption that the earth is flat.

Maybe you're not speaking in scientific terms, but it sounds like it to me, what with all the talk of infinite chains of causality and all.

Don't get me wrong. I don't have any problems with anyone believing in God, but God's existence is a belief, not a fact. I have beliefs, too. I don't try to prove them to anyone. I can't. They're beliefs.

This is an argument from the 13th century. Nothing up to now has been discovered to prove it wrong. Nothing has been discovered to give a third choice.

Im speaking logically.

These are the only ways known to theologists and scientists that 'we' can exist.

Don't get me wrong, this isnt the only way of proving God's existance. There are others, I jsut thought this one would sound most logical.

You don't ahve to believe if you don't want to.
What do you believe in?

[edit on 12/10/05 by ivanglam]

Originally posted by ivanglam
What do you believe in?

Can you listen to PODcasts? A lot of my beliefs are in this PODthread.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

If you can't listen to PODcasts, the first PODcast script is written in this thread.

www.belowtopsecret.com...

Z caused A and A caused Z. The cycle never started so there for it can't end. It is everything yet nothing a concept or law that can not be compared to any law known.

I agree with you fully. Anyone who doesn't agree that there is a god is impossible. Religions seem to like to paint a face to creation but when you look in the mirror you are seeing god, you and everything else you see.

Originally posted by ivanglam
LOL - Just the replies I expected.


So A caused B right? Seems logical. The begining caused the inbetween days. Well, what cause A? Ohh, thats right. D did. But wait didnt you say that A was the FIRST? So what started the Cycle?

Selecting any one point as the starting point would render this Chain inaccurate. It would then have a Starting point and would no longer be infinate.

That starting point, we call God.

If infinate chains cannot exist in space and time, then God is the only option. Some, I bet are still skeptical. But I am not asking you to believe what the christians, islamics, or hindu's (arguably) believe, I am simply asking that you accept the undenyable thruth that there is A GOD, and that it IS PROVEABLE.

Happy Digestion of the Information.

To the Believers - Never let anyone convince you otherwise; there is a God
To the Non-Believers - Theres the PROOF, logically presented, to show A God DOES exist.



Deny Ignorance.