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Originally posted by launchpad
Read some books?? Yup, read quite a few specifically on the Civil War. Sure enough the FIRST shots were fired by the South. But maybe Delta Boy once you finish with your education you can look on a map and see where Ft Sumter is located- then pick up at least one book to see how 6 days after South Carolina officially decided to succeed (20 Dec 1860) the North sent troops under Maj. Robert Anderson to occupy the Fort (26 Dec 1860). An act which the South Carolina Congressional members had previously declared (9 Dec 1860) would be considered an act of war.
Turns out the location where the shots were first fired - yes by the South- was in the South AFTER the NORTH had preemptively seized and reinforced the Fort.
Will I be among them???- No as I said I am a federal employee and until actual weapons are turned on my fellow countrymen and as sour as the taste is in my mouth I am going to be completely loyal. Part of being loyal though is to advise those above me they maybe going down a dark and dangerous path and vote accordingly to get those misguided folks out of office. Have you written your congressman?
Originally posted by Odium
If a majority of the people in a State want it to leave the Union, why should they not be able too?
Originally posted by Odium
If a majority of the people in a State want it to leave the Union, why should they not be able too?
Originally posted by Intelearthling
So, let me give you my opinion about secession in modern times. We shouldn't allow this to ever happen!
Originally posted by deltaboy
fellow countrymen? then it happened at Waco in 93. wat have u been doin then?
"With all my devotion to the Union and the feeling of loyalty and duty of an American citizen, I have not been able to make up my mind to raise my hand against my relatives, my children, my home. I have therefore resigned my commission in the Army, and save in defense of my native State, with the sincere hope that my poor services may never be needed, I hope I may never be called on to draw my sword....." Lee in a letter to his sister, April 20, 1861
Actually, I WAS in the military in 93 and am VERY well versed on WACO. Yes it sickened me- everything about it was wrong- however, the MILITARY WAS NOT USED ON CIVILIANS. Nor at Ruby ridge; another sickening event of that time period. Both events were purely police actions. LAW ENFORCEMENT ACENCIES were entirely out of line.
Regardless of the current trend where it looks as if our federal government wants to repeal or circumvent the rules against the use of the military on our civilian population- I will not lead the troops under my command (that's right my command) against the civilian population of THIS country. General Lee stated my feelings nicely.
Sorry for delving yet again into the history-but it is relevant to modern times considering eminent domain/ states rights/ use of military on civilians (1878 Posse Comitatus Act) and on and on. He who fails to observe history is doomed to repeat it.
The argument of ownership of the fort has been an issue since 'modern times' and hotly argued by people favoring the Northern view of the war in an effort to justify the Northern aggression (as if it could come close). The link I provided had another tied to it that talks about the ownership issue and how ownership would have been transferred between states to the Union at that time period
Committee on Federal Relations
In the House of Representatives, December 31st, 1836
"The Committee on Federal relations, to which was referred the Governor's message, relating to the site of Fort Sumter, in the harbour of Charleston, and the report of the Committee on Federal Relations from the Senate on the same subject, beg leave to Report by Resolution:
"Resolved, That this state do cede to the United States, all the right, title and claim of South Carolina to the site of Fort Sumter and the requisite quantity of adjacent territory, Provided, That all processes, civil and criminal issued under the authority of this State, or any officer thereof, shall and may be served and executed upon the same, and any person there being who may be implicated by law; and that the said land, site and structures enumerated, shall be forever exempt from liability to pay any tax to this state.
"Also resolved: That the State shall extinguish the claim, if any valid claim there be, of any individuals under the authority of this State, to the land hereby ceded.
You are arguing military things with a career military officer, holding multiple degrees and who happens to have spent several years at a major university studying the Constitution and the Civil War from actual diaries and books of the time period(s)- NOT just the caca that was turned out in mass after the war by those seeking to justify the atrocities and the carpet baggers.
So while I may not be the worlds foremost authority or even remotely close to that, to argue the facts of the war having only read one book yourself is just as full of blowing hot air as arguing hieroglyphics with Byrd.
Originally posted by Full Metal
Perfect! We vote the South out, the Dems win everything, then we stomp on the South and bring them back in when the good guys have control. I vote to remove the South from the Union about 3 days before the 2006 elections, and again in 2008, just to keep the good guys from being screwed over by the bad guys who cheat.
Originally posted by RANT
Originally posted by Odium
If a majority of the people in a State want it to leave the Union, why should they not be able too?
Or if a majority say, just for hypothetical purposes of course, wanted to kick Texas out of the Union, we could do that too right?
Originally posted by Full Metal
Hmmmm, slave states were in the south, republican states in the south, Birthplace of the KKK is in the south, CSA was the south, the crappiest schools are in the south, hell Bill Clinton was estatic when his state went from what, 49th to 46th? But it wasn't because his state got better but because the states around him got worse? So why would we want to vote them out? Hard to tell....
Originally posted by snafu7700
umm, maryland was a slave state and stayed with the union. in fact, they had slaves for a few years after the civil war was over (the emancipation proclamation did not apply to northern states).
Originally posted by infinite
So this movement is highly unlikely to achieve its goal and rebuilding the Confederate States of America?
Originally posted by Odium
At the momeny it is unlikely, due to how "strong" America is, however think of the United States as a the U.S.S.R. for a moment. Once they had fallen all of their "States" began to leave, realising that they were getting less by being with them and they would by being without them and it is likely this will happen in the U.S. in the long run as well.
Once they have fallen - like all Empire's do, they will end up falling apart realising that the over-taxation isn't worth the gains.