"Mandatory" Military Possibility

So there is a popular saying that history repeats itself. Well I have been thinking about our economy and the way things have been going and trying to compare this to any other civilization and I have found one weird thing that I think might actually happen. This will be a bit to type to fully explain but bare with me.

So back durring the times of the Trojan wars and the surrounding time periods there were a couple civilizations that forced teenage males to join the military after some typical youth schooling. Well after thinking about it for a while, I beleive that these people could possibly not have been "forced" to be in the military but really had no other real choice. Let me explain. If these children have no trade skills that can get them jobs they have no income and therefor can not afford to live on their own. So the only choice they have besides staying with their families is joining the military. Many of these people probably wanted to be in the military or at least would rather have been part of it than stay at home so with so many people doing it, it would have been easy for people to say they were forced with the mass number of people doing it.

The way this can be related to today's American economy is this. Prices of housing and fuel and just the price of living is going up at too high of a rate that inflation is not making up for. I beleive that in the near future we may see ourselves our or kids facing this same situation and this could work perfectly for a government trying to get a strong military together to run the entire country when there is Martial Law declared across the entire country. We may see many people in the near future that can't afford to go to college or to go out amd live on their own which will almost "force" them into the military just like back in the times of the Trojan time era.

I have many more beleifs and ideas about this topic but I had to just get this off of my chest and may add on more if people take well to this idea.

Please reply no matter how you stand so I can see what other people think of this idea!

Cheers,
Dave

I think the plan your describing is already in effect but cannot be fully activated until the current young generations wake up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered. Our generations are seeing the transition stages from republic to democracy to corporatism while the younger ones are the ones who are oblivious to the real emergency but will suffer the greatest perhaps.

All in all I think the plan is to have a draft/mandatory service to be made effective within under 5 years. Then when all that is righteous is gone, those younger generations will not remember what it was like NOT to be in the military or rules by fear

[edit on 4-10-2005 by RebelSaint]

Originally posted by covertoperative
If these children have no trade skills that can get them jobs they have no income and therefor can not afford to live on their own.

This isn't how those societies worked tho.

Servining as a soldier in their military was a privilege and it was restricted to the citizens. A person who was poor, had no skills, no talent, etc etc, would not be particularly encouraged to join the military, probably wouldn't even be a citizen infact. If they were in the military, they'd be skirmishers, lightly armed troops that shot off a pellet, dart, etc, and then ran back for cover.

with the mass number of people doing it.

It was a requirement of citizenship to defend the city, thats why there were large numbrs, especially in the time period you mention. If there was a war, all citizens had to participate.

The way this can be related to today's American economy is this.

The military has far too many requirements to permit the dregs of society from being able to join merely for the pay.

Please reply no matter how you stand so I can see what other people think of this idea!

Lots of places have mandatory military service requirements for citizens, like modern day germany. The only places where people are joining the military to avoid starvation and extreme poverty are places like North Korea, or the Sudan, etc.

[edit on 4-10-2005 by Nygdan]

Every man in Switzerland has to be in National Service for I do believe 18months and over there it works amazingly. It is one of the reasons as to why their gun violence is so low. People know guns are not for fun but for the protection of their home-land and they learn it from an early age...

Switzerland, Federal Republic of Germany, Neitherlands, Belgium, South Korea, I do believe Austria.. all have madatory military service committments in one form or another. To them its part of the facts of life and society..

Its not a evil thing in my eyes. The all volunteer military is a fantastic thing.. but there are many out in the US Population who sneer at anyone who puts on a uniform.

But I have worked along side some of the "foreign" mandatory troop.. they are professionals, and do their duty in their enlistment periods

Same here in norway. Around the age of 18, you are called in for different tests, like measuring IQ, your health, sigth, hearing abilitys. The following year you are called into the army, and have to serve for around 12 months. Im called into the army in January 2006.
We call it "verneplikt", which means something like "duty to defend" in english.

I dont know if we will stick by with this metod forever, there has been some talk of an 100% professional army. But i think it works pretty well, and that most people benefit from the experience later on, even though its a little bit annoying to have to wait to years before i can contiunue with my studies.

13th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution
Section 1. Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.

Section 2. Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation.

I fail to see the difference between the government forcing someone to pick cotton against thier will versus forcing someone to serve in the military. It appears to me that a constitutional amendment would be required to implement such a draft in the U.S. I would not support such an amendment.


.

? No, you don't need an ammendment to have a draft. There've been drafts in the US before, they're constitutional.

Here's a page that covers some of it.

[edit on 4-10-2005 by Nygdan]

"To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years"

Does "raise and support" mean forcing people to join through coersion or worse?

I think it can be argued that it's "Unconstitutional" also.

Originally posted by Nygdan
? No, you don't need an ammendment to have a draft.

Just explain to me how forcing someone into a form of employment that they do not wish perform is not involuntary servitude.

I will point out that the arguement "we've done it before" is a pretty lame attempt at rationalizing the very clear words of the 13th amendment. All your arguement demonstrates is that politicians have been willing to sell out your constitutionally guaranteed rights for light and transient reasons in the name of expediency for a long time.
.

Well 13th Amendment or not. You will have a draft in case of war... Period.

WWI, WWII, Korea, Vietnam era.. All those American conflicts has a draft in place.. and there were disenters claiming that it is Slavery.. but in every court case..it was decided that the 13 Amendment does not apply.

The main difference is.. when they drafted the troops.. they were paid the same benefits as volunteers.

My own opinion is.. I do not want any draft in the US Armed Forces. To have draftees who do not want to be there is more trouble than its worth. We with the military drawdown that happened in the 1990's.. I am too busy to be working with discipline problems. Keep the military all volunteer as it is.. unless we get into a Major War.

[edit on 5-10-2005 by kitanis]

The SCOTUS recognizes that the Congress has the ability to draft, they recognized it over a hundred years ago.

Personally, for me, this clinches that the Founders weren't saying that Congress can't draft:

Efforts by President Washington and his successors to have Congress authorize a draft went unheeded,

True, congress declined to do it, but if washington himself was calling for it....

is not involuntary servitude.

Involuntary servitude means you don't get paid and still have to do the work, technically. Draftees are paid like everyone else. The ability to raise and army is in the constituiton, its something that congress does, and doesn't require an ammendment. Its not that its merely been 'done before', its that the entire history of US Consitutional Law supports that Congress can draft the citizenry.

To be honest, if I were in charge of a country I would put people who were un-employed in to the military. This will either boost the number of military personnel or give make them want to get another job instead of sitting around.

Remember, nowadays not every military job is involved in combat. There are plenty of desk and research jobs which people can do.

mashup, many Nation's do something similar to this. They allow for 6months to a year of living on benefits [by the Government] after that they find them a job in their Nation which they are skilled to do, get it for them and pay for them to move and first months worth of rent/bills and they have to work for I do believe 3years before they can claim benefits again. [Unless the Nation goes bankrupt.]

It's actually a half-decent idea, there are so many skilled people who can't gain jobs due to the area they live in or just because they are lazy and it is about time they get the choice work or do not reap the benefits for eternity...

Police, Firecrew, etc, are always needed...

After the replies I got to thinking if my statement was a little un-likely, but just got me more into how likely I think it is. It would make perfect sense for the Republican Party to continue to inflate tax rates and interest rates to make it so upcoming youth do not have a chance for anything but the military. Because in effect they aren’t really being forced into the military, so they didn’t have to draft anyone, so this makes it still a totally voluntary military.

What I believe is that Bush was practicing with Martial Law down in New Orleans to see how it would go over on a larger scale. And once there are terrorist attacks in many places at the same time i.e. (LA, Chicago, Minneapolis, New York, Miami, Seatlle) Bush will be able to declare Martial Law across the entire country and that would be the beggining of the NWO because there wouldnt be any way that we would get out of Martial Law without the government wanting it to be back to normal, and they wouldnt if they really are working on creating the NWO.

How this relates to people being "forced" into the military is that once the NWO takes over, they might not want to join voluntarily anymore, but if he already has a very strong military going into his nation-wide Martial Law effort he has nothing to worry about anymore.

What do you guys think?

Peace,
Dave

The use of Martial Law would have nothing to do with being forced into the military. The force is all volunteer. Martial Law is the use of the military to take over law enforcement/central control of a area.

I highly doubt that Bush will use Martial Law to "take over" the country in a NWO thing. The Draft that everyone fears will not happen.. period.. the country can not afford it..

[edit on 8-10-2005 by kitanis]

Originally posted by kitanis


The use of Martial Law would have nothing to do with being forced into the military. The force is all volunteer. Martial Law is the use of the military to take over law enforcement/central control of a area.

I highly doubt that Bush will use Martial Law to "take over" the country in a NWO thing. The Draft that everyone fears will not happen.. period.. the country can not afford it..

[edit on 8-10-2005 by kitanis]

Read the post better before shooting it down. I said NOTHING about a draft. There wont be a draft, this has nothing to do with a draft. Im not talking about a DRAFT!!

When I put quotes around forced I mean its not forced, but I assume people knew what I meant, most people that can read would. What I am saying is a lot people will join because they cant afford to do anything else.


[edit on 10/8/2005 by covertoperative]

I think the fact that we even *need* a draft is an indicator that this country is screwed up.

Think about it. If you have a really great government that doesn't go around picking fights with every other nation, you'd most likely see more volunteers in the military. Fight a just war to actually DEFEND our country rather than invade others? Can you see the hands flying up?

Right now it's the opposite. Enlistment is way down. Who in their right mind wants to be cannon fodder in Bush's Krazy Krusades?

If you get to the point where you think you need a draft, better look at your situation.