Here's your al Qaeda!

Ok, so we have evidence that rumsfield has commited treason by meeting with an islamic terrorist organization, well i dont fell too bad about losing k2 . rumsfeld needs to be charged with treason though, this is as bad as kerry meeting north vietnamese

Originally posted by EastCoastKid
I've been saying ever since the invasion of Afghanistan that al Qaeda is largely manufactured - a fiction - for the benefit of the military industrial complex.

Continuing to give real conspiracy theorists a bad name.....

Just two of many, upon many, sources, from simple internet works to international academia historical publications, journals, reports, and other documentations, that will prove your assertion wrong, time and time again:
Al Qaeda: It's Origins And History.
MIPT Terrorism Knowledge Base: al-Qaeda




seekerof

[edit on 31-7-2005 by Seekerof]

Why does the US government refuse to admit its central role in creating the vicious movement that spawned Osama, the Taliban and Islamic fundamentalist terrorists. The mass media has also down-played the origins of Bin Laden and his brand of Islamic fundamentalism. Lets backtrack a few steps.

In the 70’s and 80’s Washington, feared the spread of Soviet influence (and worse the new government's radical example) to its allies in Pakistan, Iran and the Gulf states. So what did they do? – The immediately offered support to the mujaheddin, (which were at war with the USSR) in the eyes of many Afghanis the reactionary jihad now gained legitimacy as a “national liberation” struggle.

So many people seem to forget sooo quickly that; between 1978 and 1992, the US government poured at least US$6 billion (some estimates range as high as $20 billion) worth of arms, training and funds to prop up the mujaheddin factions. Other Western governments, as well as oil-rich Saudi Arabia, kicked in as much again. Wealthy Arab fanatics, like Osama bin Laden, provided millions more.

Washington's policy in Afghanistan was shaped by US President Jimmy Carter's national security adviser, Zbigniew Brzezinski, and was continued by his successors. His plan went far beyond simply forcing Soviet troops to withdraw; rather it aimed to foster an international movement to spread Islamic fanaticism into the Muslim Central Asian Soviet republics to destabilise the Soviet Union.

After the mujaheddin took Kabul in 1992, Hekmatyar's forces rained US-supplied missiles and rockets on that city — killing at least 2000 civilians — until the new government agreed to give him the post of prime minister. Osama bin Laden was a close associate of Hekmatyar and his faction.

Backing of the mujaheddin from the CIA coincided with a boom in the drug business. Within two years, the Afghanistan-Pakistan border was the world's single largest source of heroin, supplying 60% of US drug users. Funny how this stopped when the Taliban took control in 2000, and in 2001 when the US invaded is started again? Did you know that CIA black-ops are funded by drug-money, hmmm… Would now be the right time for me to say that 9/11 was a black op.

Back tot he mujaheddin…. The muslims recruited in the US for the mujaheddin were sent to Camp Peary, the CIA's spy training camp in Virginia, where young Afghans, Arabs from Egypt and Jordan, and even some African-American “black Muslims” were taught “sabotage skills”. These “operatives” were recruited at the al Kifah Refugee Centre in Brooklyn, New York, given paramilitary training in the New York area and then sent to Afghanistan with US assistance to join Hekmatyar's forces.

In 1986, bin Laden brought heavy construction equipment from Saudi Arabia to Afghanistan. Using his extensive knowledge of construction techniques (he has a degree in civil engineering), he built “training camps”, some dug deep into the sides of mountains, and built roads to reach them. These camps, now dubbed “terrorist universities” by Washington, were built in collaboration with the CIA. The Afghan contra fighters, including the tens of thousands of mercenaries recruited and paid for by bin Laden, were armed by the CIA. US and Britain provided military trainers.

Tom Carew, a former British SAS soldier who secretly fought for the mujaheddin told the August 13, 2000, British Observer, “The Americans were keen to teach the Afghans the techniques of urban terrorism — car bombing and so on — so that they could strike at the Russians in major towns ... Many of them are now using their knowledge and expertise to wage war on everything they hate.”

Bin Laden has simply continued to do the job he was asked to do in Afghanistan during the 1980's — fund, feed and train mercenaries. All that has changed is his primary customer. Then it was the CIA. Today, his services are utilised primarily by the reactionary Taliban regime.

Bin Laden only became a “terrorist” in US eyes when he fell out with the Saudi royal family over its decision to allow more than 540,000 US troops to be stationed on Saudi soil following Iraq's invasion of Kuwait. When thousands of US troops remained in Saudi Arabia after the end of the Gulf War, bin Laden's anger turned to outright opposition. He declared that Saudi Arabia and other regimes — such as Egypt — in the Middle East were puppets of the US, just as the PDPA government of Afghanistan had been a puppet of the Soviet Union.

In an August 28, 1998, report posted on MSNBC, Michael Moran quotes Senator Orrin Hatch, who was a senior member of the Senate Intelligence Committee which approved US dealings with the mujaheddin, as saying he would make “the same call again”, even knowing what bin Laden would become.

“It was worth it. Those were very important, pivotal matters that played an important role in the downfall of the Soviet Union.”

Hatch today is one of the most gung-ho voices demanding military retaliation.

Another face that has appeared repeatedly on television screens since the attack has been Vincent Cannistrano, described as a former CIA chief of “counter-terrorism operations”. Cannistrano is certainly an expert on terrorists like bin Laden, because he directed their “work”. He was in charge of the CIA-backed Nicaraguan contras during the early 1980's. In 1984, he became the supervisor of covert aid to the Afghan mujaheddin for the US National Security Council.

The last word goes to Zbigniew Brzezinski: “What was more important in the world view of history? The Taliban or the fall of the Soviet Empire? A few stirred up Muslims or the liberation of Central Europe and the end of the Cold War?”

if Osama bin laden spent so long and worked so hard to defend Afghanistan from the evil empire of the russians, and won, and praised allah and all of Islam.
Why did he appear to give up so easily whent he americans invaded afghanistan? surely he should be out rounding up islamic liberators and leading the jihad to remove the infidel invades from the country he has already successfully liberated from one great superpower.
yet where is he now?

Evidence suggests he died in 2001 - are people aware that he has a kidney disease, he had to have di-alisis every week... A mean task for someone is on the run from the worlds most powerful empire... He even had an egyptian funeral aparrently...

And as for defending Afghanistan... What do you think the constand car-bombings are... If they had an airforce do you think they would still be strapping themselves with home-made plastic explosives...

Of course not...

i dont get any news on afghan here in the UK, its all Iraq.
+
news services dont have a clue what it all is anyway, they just automatically label every explosion a suicide bomb and report it as that.
Its difficult to tell whats going on. I think that Osama would fight with a proper army rather than just detonating explosives all the time.

he might well be dead

In my opinion... Osama wasn't responsible for 9/11, he went on the run because the US immediately blamed him, he died because he couldn't keep up with his medical needs, the US continues to use him as a scape-goat to fuel this so called "War on Terror" thus allowing them to control a dying resource ie Oil...

I even think the US fabricates or creates Al Quada websites and videos to further create a sense of fear... They are merely people your government has pointed a finger at to conceal what is really going on... Think about it, its not that hard to do - difficult to trace or prove, but easily do-able...

1. AQ is real
2. Osama was not created, he was funded, and it bit us, the US, in the a** years later. This is not a new thing. This has happened throughout histroy. Help someone and down the line you become enemies.
3. Have we not forgotten the fact that they 'finished' the job on 9/11, they did try it once before nad somehow all those guys knoew each otehr then too.
4. Google, it's a great thing.
5. Whether Osama is dead or not, they are still here, look at the bombings in England.

Lets face the fact that we are entering a psuedo-crusade that began on 9/11 and we are along for the ride. Put your kids in a good college and buy a car that gets good MPG.

Originally posted by ghostsoldier
In my opinion... Osama wasn't responsible for 9/11, he went on the run because the US immediately blamed him, he died because he couldn't keep up with his medical needs, the US continues to use him as a scape-goat to fuel this so called "War on Terror" thus allowing them to control a dying resource ie Oil...

I even think the US fabricates or creates Al Quada websites and videos to further create a sense of fear... They are merely people your government has pointed a finger at to conceal what is really going on... Think about it, its not that hard to do - difficult to trace or prove, but easily do-able...

i think along the same lines. that is what i suspect also

Originally posted by ghostsoldier
In my opinion... Osama wasn't responsible for 9/11, he went on the run because the US immediately blamed him, he died because he couldn't keep up with his medical needs, the US continues to use him as a scape-goat to fuel this so called "War on Terror" thus allowing them to control a dying resource ie Oil...

Interesting, but why Osama?? Bush has a record of business negociations with the Bin Laden family. So why pick a man that could kill your support, sounds quite risky. Its took much at stake, Bush was trying everything he could to hide that evidence, but it still leaked.

Why wouldn't Bush allow the Bin Ladens to escape ahead of time, instead of almost a week after 9/11?

According to Richard Clark (a man who use to work in the whitehouse) Bush used 9/11 has an excuse for the Iraq War. From what he stated, they saw the terrorist attack, found it a blessing, took their chance and used it. Yet with all the beans that had been spilt, he never explained that the government fabricated 9/11.

I respect your views (cause infact I use to believe a government role).

[edit on 31-7-2005 by evanfitz]

We would have gone into Iraq, 9/11 or not. Osama has a hatred for the west that comes from childhood, read up on it... This is man is not a clown, he is someone that people will die for. How many of us are ready to die for our leader? none, short of the secret service. This is a fanaticism for a cause that has not been seen since ww2. I can only wish that AQ was not real.