The Pope who likes abortions is dead set against Freemasonry

a reply to: network dude

I have to lol ND at all this as pope of the west seems to have good idea of the grips and the footwork involved from what I have witnessed in the media .

All the older people I knew and respected seemed to have no problem belonging to both organisations and many decades ago proudly went to both lodge and church and were happy people with good hearts .

I have never joined either organisation but have a nice collection of bibles from family members on my bookcase and I laugh at all the people who think the average Joe down the lodge on a Wednesday night is trying to take over the world rather than collect money for charity or visit a brother in hospital with some fruit .

Maybe the lodges should resiprocate and ask all the lads to down tools on any churches being worked at ...

He is a weird one that pope from what I have seen over the last 4 years with what he is telling his followers to inject into their bodies for their protection

a reply to: VariedcodeSole

your porn site is a bit much, but what, in that clip do you feel is nefarious?

a reply to: stonerwilliam

Knowing the truth, it does make the more crazy theories all the more funny. And I suppose the nutty ideas contribute to the curiosity that would make a man ask to join, so it's not all bad. But no, I've not been offered a position in high government as of yet. Only endless opportunities to give my time away for many worthy causes.

originally posted by: network dude
a reply to: VariedcodeSole

your porn site is a bit much, but what, in that clip do you feel is nefarious?

Not my site. I never said nefarious, you decided to escalate my point because you're probably offended because you're a member. I said "kooky" actually, but thank you for confirming it's validity nevertheless.

originally posted by: VariedcodeSole

originally posted by: network dude
a reply to: VariedcodeSole

your porn site is a bit much, but what, in that clip do you feel is nefarious?

Not my site. I never said nefarious, you decided to escalate my point because you're probably offended because you're a member. I said "kooky" actually, but thank you for confirming it's validity nevertheless.

not sure I did that, but I am curious. I am not offended.

a reply to: network dude

You're asking me what I think of it because you're curious? I think you want the opinion of someone outside of your club because I'll admit, that was probably not supposed to be seen. Kinda takes the 'secret' out of secret society, ya know what I mean?

I'll say this, freemason's also do community and charity work. If that's all it is, why the secrecy? That's a lot of ritualistic symbology for a can food drive or a potluck dinner.

Please don't tell me you're like a 1%er motorcycle club doing toy runs to 'blend in'.🤨

a reply to: VariedcodeSole

our rituals are supposed to be secret, but not for some nefarious purpose. Our "niche" is that we teach lessons in a very particular way, so that the initiate not only remembers the lesson, but can help convey that same lesson to the new members who come in. And it's done in such a way that you have to really want to be there, and want to hear the message.

There are books that explain every bit of freemasonry, but they are so damn boring, nobody would read them, let alone grasp the lessons taught.

And to my knowledge, none of us claim to be any better than anyone else, any smarter than anyone else, or any more correct with regard to religions, or Biblical connections. It's really just a bunch of men who want to be better men. Sounds boring, but it's really enjoyable due to the caliber of men you meet, and spend time with.

a reply to: network dude

Fair enough, and thank you for a peek into what it means for you and the organization as a whole. An outsider will inevitably have a different perspective having limited information to go on. Being amongst those on the outside, I'm more speculative than informed, that's why I appreciate your candor. Thanks again.

originally posted by: network dude
a reply to: stonerwilliam

Knowing the truth, it does make the more crazy theories all the more funny. And I suppose the nutty ideas contribute to the curiosity that would make a man ask to join, so it's not all bad. But no, I've not been offered a position in high government as of yet. Only endless opportunities to give my time away for many worthy causes.

You could not make headlines like this up ND
uk.news.yahoo.com...
I guess they will play footsie under the table and swap fashion tips on frocks and see who has the nicest pair of red shoes

a reply to: stonerwilliam

I have no words.

Only recognition that we are very deep into Clown world.

originally posted by: network dude
a reply to: FurPerson

Freemasonry isn't "profoundly spiritual" in it's teachings, but the teachings are based on Bible references.

The teachings within modern Freemasonry are only "aligned" to teachings from the Bible as apperception

They are not "based" on the Bible

It is an attempt to align their knowledge of how the ancient mystery schools worked, to a version of wisdom they currently possess. Without any of them having actually been through initiation and ascension personally (Hiram Abiff)

The dimensional aspect system, which the Freemason degrees are based on, are as old as numbers themselves

Initiates of the ancient "solar incarnation" mystery schools (Illuminated) traversed the underworld and were taught the lessons of numerical ascendancy long before the Bible, or indeed written language itself

They still are to this day

But at their origins, these ancient rites of Initiation, have very little to do with the Bible, Church, or Freemasonry

Except within the individual members interpretation

a reply to: Compendium

how long have you been a mason?

originally posted by: network dude
a reply to: Compendium

how long have you been a mason?

I am an Illuminated initiate

With all due respect to Freemasonry. We go through initiation for real. Not symbolically

Some Freemasons know of us. Others do not

If you wish to believe that the origins of the Freemason degree systems and its teachings are based on the Bible, that is fine

It just means that you are also saying that Freemasonry has no true link to any of the ancient mystery schools which came before the Bible

You are castrating your own claim to legitimacy

There were "degrees" and associated allegorical teachings taught in the ancient mystery schools of the Sumerian, Egyptian, Norse, Greek and even the Romans. Most of which were long before the Bible

In fact, the Bible was likely written from these teachings

I'll explain why it is impossible for the degree system and its teachings to be based on the Bible

Which should also answer your question as to why the Catholic Church takes exception to Freemasonry

Firstly, (I'll try keep this simple and concise)

NUMBERS came before LETTERS

This means:
It is impossible for the meaning of ancient numerical, or enumerating systems, to be based on any written book, let alone the Bible, when the letters needed to write it, had yet to be invented

I can go way deeper into the alignment of the degrees to manifested physical reality, if you do not understand what they are and what they mean beyond perception

But I'll use the Bible itself to illustrated the point simply

BOOK OF NUMBERS, comes before BOOK OF WORDS (Deuteronomy)

The system of LETTERS AND WORDS, are based on NUMBERS
The system of NUMBERS, are not based on LETTERS/WORDS

I am not sure if the reason for this is taught in Freemasonry, but it is one of the most important things taught to Illuminated initiates

NUMBERS - PRIMARY SEQUENCE
LETTERS - SECONDARY SEQUENCE

NUMBERS ARE CREATION
WORDS ARE DECAY ("Mach-benak" or "decay-apparently")

The reason that numbers are considered creation, is that numbers are an infallible and precise system of position and direction. One which is seemingly endless, growing only larger and exponentially more complex with each increment

Much like the universe

The reason that words are considered decay, is because they are limited character set, designed to allow conveyance or communication within algorithm, that is quick and easily accessible. But is also open to interpretation, misinterpretation, corruption, exploitation and the other type of elements you will find in a limited decaying system

Whoever designed the Freemason degree system, understood the principles of the primary sequence (Numbers) which is taught to Illuminated initiates

I did not look into the Freemason degrees until well after I understood the Illuminated primary sequence

And when I did, I realised it was based on the exact same system

The only difference, is that the Freemasons do not seem to know the original, simplified meaning of the symbols and sequence, as it applies to things such as the manifestation of physical matter

Nor the phonetic "utterances" which are gateways/keys to the application of deeper meaning within the primary sequence

Also, as Illuminated initiates, we are forced to work out the meaning of the symbols we use for numbers ourselves

I went through hundreds of revisions of meaning, over many years, before I got it right

The Freemason degrees are far less precise in meaning. Similar to one of my earlier drafts

Again, I can go into great detail, correlating the root meaning of the number symbols and their systems, linking them with things like biology, geometry, astronomy, geography, and every form of religion and mythology if you like

Now, as for your original question,

Look at the tablet of Shamash below, which is said to tell of Nabu-apla-iddina's re-endowment of the Sun Temple at Sippar (Solomon)



In this relief, the man on the throne, with waves of "water" drawn on his dress, is an "Initiate". Initiate literally meaning, one who has gone into (or "entered" self)

Sumerians used water ripples on the dressage, or depictions of water and fish flowing inwards towards the person, to symbolise "the underworld". The internalised human form

Those who traversed the underworld, were/are considered "initiates"

The counter to this, are those who are considered "Ascended", who were depicted as bird people, or people with wings. Usually holding a seed of their knowledge, and carrying a bucket of water, symbolising them being one who has passed through initiation, who carries the knowledge with them

In this relief, you will see 3 men standing facing the man on the throne. These 3 men, are the same as the first three degrees of perception in Illumination

As well as the first 3 degrees in Freemasonry, and every other mystery school throughout history

The one at the back, who also has water on his clothing, is the "entered initiate"

The man in the sky shining light down upon the alter, is the same man as the one sitting on the alter. Who in turn, is the same man as all 3 of the "aspects of self" who appear before him at the alter

It explains phased reality. Where the planet is your external body

I can go into great detail on this too, aligning the trinity of every belief system and mythology, to the primary sequence

But basically, "NUMBERS" are the universal religion, which is supposed to be coming

Because they are infallible, undeniable, and they align with literally everything

How far into esoteric Freemasonry have you gone?

Do you understand that the temple of Solomon is your physical body yet?

Or that the Ark of the Covenant is your heart, in your chest? (hence it being stored in the temple of Solomon, the body)

Do you understand that when you look up in the sky at the sun, you are looking at your own mind?

Or when you look up at night at the moon, you are looking down into your body, from inside your own head, at the tip of your spine?

Or let me ask you a simple one that any initiate should know:

At which degree does the origin of position and direction shift from the first-person or individual, to the second person or individual (as mirror)?

The reason I am asking if you know these things, is because you speak down to me, and other people, asking "How long have we been Masons", as if you know everything there is to know, and we know nothing

While at the same time, you pose questions that show you actually know very little, let alone understand anything

Because if you knew (and understood in some way) some of these types of esoteric "secrets", which are known to many within Freemasonry, you would not be at all surprised that the Catholic Church takes exception towards them

originally posted by: Compendium

The reason I am asking if you know these things, is because you speak down to me, and other people, asking "How long have we been Masons", as if you know everything there is to know, and we know nothing

While at the same time, you pose questions that show you actually know very little, let alone understand anything

Because if you knew (and understood in some way) some of these types of esoteric "secrets", which are known to many within Freemasonry, you would not be at all surprised that the Catholic Church takes exception towards them

First off, thanks for going in-depth with your reply.

Secondly, and most importantly, I'm not speaking down to anyone, and I certainly don't pretend to know anything more than the basics that I learned. But just as there is no way I could tell you about the order you belong to, without being a member myself, there is no way you or anyone else can speak of the workings of freemasonry without being a member and experiencing things the same way every mason in the past has done. That is the incredibly arrogant part of all this, You have have a vast amount of esoteric knowledge, but you have no way of knowing what knowledge others may possess until you speak to them about that very topic. I have met many members here who have much more esoteric knowledge than I could hope to achieve in my lifetime. But unless they were initiated, passed and raised in a masonic lodge, they just won't know what masonry is and teaches, beyond the basic boring written material that exists.

Humility is taught, and it's a lesson that should stick with you throughout life.

Now, there are quite a few brilliant minds here who may not know what you know, but would be invaluable in the discovery and understanding of the much bigger picture if you choose to discuss this kind of material with them. And only you know what you can and cannot divulge as to not cast pearls before the swine.

please don't take offence to this, as it was not my intent. But while my understanding of the wider knowledge of esoteric wisdom is shallow at best, I, like many other masons, understand that in order to find that wisdom, you have to put in the work to find it, learn it, and most importantly, understand it. And Masonry is just one of many ways to find that door. But in finding the door, you still have to have it opened unto you, and for that you must first knock three times. Have a super day.

a reply to: network dude

Fair enough. Sorry if I misunderstood

I guess though, it does offer a perfect example of "Mach-benak (decay apparently)", and what I meant about letters/words (secondary sequence) being DECAY

That they easily present a simple misinterpretation of intent within just one sentence, from one person to another

Peace and love ✌😊

a reply to: Compendium

I am an illuminated initiate

Not to blow your mystique here, but...

Is your signature a reference to Thelema or Shakti/Shiva?

What are some of the other degrees of your order, if you don't mind me asking.

And when you say this:

With all due respect to Freemasonry. We go through initiation for real. Not symbolically

Would you characterize that as action/doing oriented. Like a lot of orders with similar hexagram symbols do that abyss crossing dealy, and some have you break your mind open to do it, would yours be one of these?

Are there "rites of passage" like forcing yourself to go survive off the land for a certain length of time, or pushing your mind/body physically?

Or is more presensing archetypes and esoteric ritual based? Gaining knowledge through secret practice and mystic ritual.

Just wondering what differentiates your initiatory practice from others like Freemasonry, and why there's is milquetoast by comparison.

a reply to: Degradation33

I've been writing an answer to your questions, in some detail ...

But I think I am probably going to have to post it in its own new thread, as it is around 6 full posts in length at the moment, and I do not want to hijack network dudes thread

I will let you know when I finish and post it

I'm going to have to take a break from it for a bit (at least today) as I have been writing and revising on and off half the day

But I am happy to give as much detail on the processes and systems as you like

We are not sworn to secrecy. Merely taught to limit what we share, to those who genuinely want to know (those who knock, you could say)

a reply to: Creaky

It is not a secret society, it's a fraternity with secrets.

Huge difference.

Why don't you go knock on a lodge door some time, during a Friday fish fry for example, and ask any members over dinner your questions.

I joined decades ago, and have been an officer in all three chapters, including blue lodge and Commandery as a Knight of The Temple.

It's a dying fraternity, our building closed due to low activity from members. We couldn't even open because not enough people showed up. There's no power in Modern Masonry.

Not like it had a century ago.

You can't even get Mason's to agree on what to have for dinner, let alone anything nefarious.

But go ahead and blame the fraternity, it's an easy scape goat for the ignorant.


PS
FYI, during our obligation, we do give preference to the Christian faith. However religion and politics was never discussed.

originally posted by: ADVISOR
a reply to: Creaky

It is not a secret society, it's a fraternity with secrets.

Huge difference.

Why don't you go knock on a lodge door some time, during a Friday fish fry for example, and ask any members over dinner your questions.

I joined decades ago, and have been an officer in all three chapters, including blue lodge and Commandery as a Knight of The Temple.

It's a dying fraternity, our building closed due to low activity from members. We couldn't even open because not enough people showed up. There's no power in Modern Masonry.

Not like it had a century ago.

You can't even get Mason's to agree on what to have for dinner, let alone anything nefarious.

But go ahead and blame the fraternity, it's an easy scape goat for the ignorant.


PS
FYI, during our obligation, we do give preference to the Christian faith. However religion and politics was never discussed.

The times are a changing and not for the better it seems Advisor there is a church in my area that has been going since 1120 ad that is shutting its doors due to nobody attending.

For example I know 2 guys both 30 ish both married with 2 kids and listening to them talk one day made my heart sink , it was like listing to 2 kids as they were going on about computer games they enjoyed playing .

That is the mindset you are up against now , few people under 30 can read proper handwriting or a anologue clock or even use a tape measure , tune a radio and would starve to death if they were asked to open a can of food ikyn .

Rough ashlars . they are going to need a ton of work and very very few these days are prepared to put in the hard graft to get the job done and if it is not on aTic Toc or a short YouTube video they are not interested, repetition and ritual bore that generation very very easily , they all expect rock star wages and treatment the day they leave school now .

Maybe the recruitment process needs to change with the times if they like games give them some instead of waiting for a knock on the door

originally posted by: Degradation33
a reply to: Compendium

I am an illuminated initiate

Not to blow your mystique here, but...

Is your signature a reference to Thelema or Shakti/Shiva?

What are some of the other degrees of your order, if you don't mind me asking.

And when you say this:

With all due respect to Freemasonry. We go through initiation for real. Not symbolically

Would you characterize that as action/doing oriented. Like a lot of orders with similar hexagram symbols do that abyss crossing dealy, and some have you break your mind open to do it, would yours be one of these?

Are there "rites of passage" like forcing yourself to go survive off the land for a certain length of time, or pushing your mind/body physically?

Or is more presensing archetypes and esoteric ritual based? Gaining knowledge through secret practice and mystic ritual.

Just wondering what differentiates your initiatory practice from others like Freemasonry, and why there's is milquetoast by comparison.

I realised in writing an answer up in great detail (that I was going to post in another thread) that it would equate to writing a full book

So I've decided to compressed it into a brief, concise version, to post here in this thread

I hope network dude does not mind, as it is still within the natural progression of this thread

---

The symbol in my signature, is a symbol which represents the balancing of will and intent, to an equilibrium, or a meeting of forces

It is, in essence, similar to the Freemason square and compass, except the centre of gravity is aligned within the individual, rather than the sphere of influence they exist within, or govern (G)

It is similar to the "Sabaoth" governing the star at the centre of a Hebrew logos, which defines any form of sympathetic system

Sabaoth - Sympathy
Yaldabaoth - Empathy

If you look at the sun, planet and your body, and see 3 individual centres of gravity, this is Yaldabaoth/Empathy. A system of individual feeling, given through a shared path of centre

If you look at the sun, planet and your body, and see 1 centre of gravity existing in 3 forms of phase, with/to itself, this is Sabaoth/Sympathy. A system of individual feeling, given as/of/with source and course of path

This may seem backwards. But it is because Yaldabaoth/Empathy, as a system, allows the sun, world, and all the people around you to remain uninfluenced individuals, as you yourself, retain your own individuality. A pure form of empathy

Whereas Sabaoth/Sympathy, as a system, means that you need balance your own intent, will, actions and ability to influence those around you, in order to allow them to remain free-thinking individuals, whilst you align yourself across all forms of centre, to the source (of creation)

Sabaoth is a much harder path, because you become responsible for your ability to influence the world around you, be it intentional or non-intentional

For example, if you lose your temper and push against the system, you will find that people, animals, plants (life) around you are inadvertently hurt, or even killed

Even the atmosphere of the Earth around you, can react violently, to slips in self-control over your conscious alignment

Aligning to the Sabaoth is by far the most powerful and hardest path of initiation, because it links into the fires of creation itself, as your source. But it also has the ability to burn those who try to align with it, if they possess a heart that is full of fear

Which is why most will never try pass through the fires of Illumination. It is a path that can (will) very literally kill you, if you seek it for the wrong reasons

As it can (will) also hurt or kill those around you who may seek to unjustly do you some type of harm, or conspire against you. Such people routinely end up severely injured or killed, usually in some type of horrible accident

As if the immune system of the Earth itself has identified them as some type of infection, and reacted to protect you

Such dangers, are a reason that the majority of people settle for the Yaldabaoth, offered with minimum responsibility (and the freedom to simply exist) within things such as religion (salvation). A course to the creative source, where you submit to judgement, and in doing so remain responsible only for your own place in the world

Sabaoth are those who “save themselves” so to speak. Going through a (initiation) purge process of catharsis (mind), purification (heart) and cleansing (body)

Within this process, they pay for, atone, or make amends, for all their own sins and wrongdoings

This undestanding aligns with Aleister Crowley saying "Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law"

With "whole of the law" referring to the course and path of creation, which passes through all the centres of gravity (as within a logos). From the centre of the sun, to the centre of the planet, to the centre of the body as physical form and conscious conduit

To place your individual action and will (Do as thou wilt) throughout the course of all these centres, as if they were the one form in-phase (shall be the whole of the law)

From my own experiences and my limited reading of Aleister Crowley, I would guess that he was someone who knew how to manipulate some form of understanding similar to this, though it was not quite the same

He seemed more interested in the simple fruits achievable within manipulation of the alignment (hence the flower on his symbol, I would guess). Rather than exploring the depths to which an alignment can be achieved, without destroying yourself, or the world around you and those within it

With the degrees? We follow a process similar to what was used within the Eleusinian mysteries. I am told that the format has been much the same throughout history, within the mystery schools of those such as the Sumerian, Norse, Egyptians, Roman/Mitraic, Zoroastrian, etc

It is simply easiest to describe using the Eleusinian mysteries, as they are the most accurate version which still exists in record today. Though they themselves are largely misunderstood

Within Illumination, we go through the exact original processes described in the Eleusinian mysteries, as well as others, such as the Egyptian rites

There are two stages:

Initiation - Meaning "To go into"
Ascension - Meaning "To go out from"

In Eleusinian, these are the "Lesser" and "Greater" mysteries

Many versions of initiation which exist today, which forsake the legitimate underworld process, have combined these into one system, where the process of ascension, is undertaken as what is known as initiation. Without ever having actually been through a real form of initiaton

To simplify the principles of these two processes into modern scientific basis, they would be "Biology" and "Geometry”

Biology – Alignment of internal manifestation, such as within your cells
Geometry – Alignment of external manifestation, such as within your dimensions

All the ancient mystery schools, at their core, are mathematically based