Facts or Fiction, what say you?

Hi ATS Family,
As I it here at 63 years old now retired from Raytheon I look back at the many books in my collection, the videos and all of the years looking, I ask these questions. The so called Facts or folks like Billy Meier, Bob Lazar, Emery Smith, David Wilcox, GAIA claims that are so incredible it borders on delusions. These people to me are nothing more than opportunists looking to cash in. To me folks like Travis Walton who’s experience is backed by some credible evidence as far as witnesses and other facts of the case, Betty and Barney Hill seem very credible since at that time they did not seek the limelight due to their racial marriage in non supporting times. The History channel show Skin Walker ranch with Dr. Travis Taylor who is someone who has worked in classified programs before seems to be a good place to tune into. The Nimitz UAP pilot videos and the public comments from those Navy pilots, and now David Grusch steps out from behind the classified curtain, and suddenly we are at a point in history that we really need to sit and consider the outcome of all of it. I ask what’s really going on, a planet doomed to be taken over, manipulated for nefarious purposes or peaceful relations with off world intelligences? What say you?

a reply to: spaceflyr

Looking at the current resurgence of interest it seems to be generated , unofficially , by the DOD / CIA with characters like Zondo , Mellon and Hal Puthoff pulling the strings , there's retirement money to be made from books and on the Ufology lecture circuit for the players.

Lazar is a curiosity for me , I can't shake the feeling there may be something there although I wouldn't put any money on it.

There are still cases that are still headscratchers , the Michigan UFO in particular as there were credible witnesses of objects over a few nights , J. Allen Hynek would later brush it off as "swamp lights" a debunk he later regretted.

Frank Mannor was spending a quiet night at home with his wife and teenaged son, Ronald, on the evening of March 20, 1966. All was peaceful at their farmhouse just northwest of Dexter, Michi-gan—until around 8:30 p.m. That’s when they saw the lights. Something unusual was in the sky outside their farmhouse.

They watched from their windows as a strange object appeared to land on their property. Then Frank and Ronald dashed from the house to investigate.

The object hovered above a nearby marshy area, pulsating red and green lights. Frank and Ronald described it as large, brown, and sphere-shaped, with a “quilted” pattern on its surface.

At one point the object’s lights went out and it disappeared, only to reappear seconds later, about 500 yards away. Then they heard a sharp sound, “like a rifle bullet ricocheting off an object.” The strange craft lifted into the air, paused directly above them, and disappeared.

Washtenaw County Sheriff Douglas J. Harvey knew the Mannors and had visited them on the night of March 20. He found their testimony to be credible and took their account seriously. “These people have seen something,” Harvey said, refuting rumors that the family was seeking publicity or was somehow deranged.
bentley.umich.edu...

So Jesse Marcel threw his career away for a few bucks. I ain't buying. As for what is really going on, I like that question.

a reply to: spaceflyr

Betty and Barney Hill seem very credible since at that time they did not seek the limelight

That's the one thing that kept me believing in the possibility of ET life-until I read their neighbor and close friend was a general or major in the military who worked closely of the MK Ultra project. To add to my skepticism was the story about the guy in N. Mexico that was 'hired' to closely watch and report UFO activity. He was being fed false info and used as a test subject in mind manipulation.

It appears they wanted a portion of the population to believe in UFO's and aliens; surrounding the subject with mystery and accusations of gov. cover-ups just peaked more interest.

Scientists have been slowly introducing us to the likely hood we're not alone; now they're beginning to take about a task force to deal with a hostile alien invasion.

Could all be true; could all be another psyop. We can all accept the official narrative or draw conclusions from our own research, whichever one trusts more.

a reply to: spaceflyr

My thoughts can be boiled down to this.

There is something out there, almost every human on the planet has access to visit them/it.

Our leaders do the best they can to be the middlemen, our leaders are trying to act as gatekeepers, robbing us from what is an essential part of being a human being.

a reply to: spaceflyr

You had my attention (at least to continue reading the OP)...until this part...

... The History channel show Skin Walker ranch with Dr. Travis Taylor who is someone who has worked in classified programs before seems to be a good place to tune into. ...

Skin Walker ranch (the show on THC) is the most laughable joke on television! I've been there! In fact, I grew up not far from there. Yeah, there have always been rumors about that place, but the TV program makes it look like they're on a 10,000 acre piece of property. They're not! The property is actually a tiny spot of land, less than 40 acres (that's just over 1,200 feet on a side). They show helicopters, and people taking about "going up the mountain" (which is really just a sandstone rock outcropping about 300' feet tall). They show all these pictures of people driving like they're going on some 'expedition' into the mountains, when in fact the road they're on is less than 1/2 mile long. They use clever camera angles to make it look WAY bigger than what it is. The list goes on.

A buddy of mine and I went there on several occasions. One time it was still occupied, and another it was vacant. Both times there was a gate at the drive (something they make a huge deal of on the TV show). Both times we drove about 200 yards through the desert and the fence just ended and you could drive right up anywhere you wanted. They light off rockets (which look like oversize Estes kid's rockets), and then have all this nonsensical electronic gear measuring frequencies which are almost completely irrelevant (and I'm a physicist who works in RF systems). The whole thing is a comedy show beyond anything even funny (because these guys actually act like they're serious). It's a hoot.

There are some ranchettes nearby, and they must think this whole thing is like a bunch of adolescent kids gone crazy while Mom & Dad are away...launching rockets, running around hiding behind rocks, driving UTV's, ATV's, 4x4's and all manner of other crazy stuff around in what amounts to circles (in someone's back yard). It's a freaking JOKE, of laughable proportions.

Look, I've seen lots of weird sh-stuff out in the high deserts of that region. As noted, I grew up there. I could list 500 places which would be WAY more interesting to study than that place, but you know what???? The reason you don't see crews making TV shows in these area is because:

a.) they're way more difficult to get to and actually require 4WD skills (so TV production crews don't have easy access to Interstate 80, and SLC).
b.) they're more remote (meaning the lunch trailer for the crew can't get there), AND...(most importantly)
c.) There just 'might' actually be something going on at those locations (which would scare the actors, and TV crews)!

Skin Walker ranch is a JOKE! I could take people to places east and north of this place (in WY) which would make their hair stand on end. And, I could take the same people south and west of this place (in UT) which would make them seek professional psychological help. I'm not kidding either!

originally posted by: gortex

Looking at the current resurgence of interest it seems to be generated , unofficially , by the DOD / CIA with characters like Zondo , Mellon and Hal Puthoff pulling the strings , there's retirement money to be made from books and on the Ufology lecture circuit for the players.

Pretty sure the full-court press pf the UAP campaign isn't about circuit and book sale monies. They'll take it off course but you're not suggesting that's the main objective are you?

a reply to: The GUT

No, I'm saying the driving force behind it is the same as it's ever been, Disinformation and obfuscation but the "witnesses" who participate get the bonus of book sales , TV appearances and the seminar circuit.It's the same game with new players and some old favourites in the driving seat.

a reply to: spaceflyr a lie sold to continue to hold power

If you believe, good and evil and being watched.

originally posted by: Flyingclaydisk
a reply to: spaceflyr
and then have all this nonsensical electronic gear measuring frequencies which are almost completely irrelevant (and I'm a physicist who works in RF systems).

Actually, I think that is probably their most significant contribution. There is another UFO hunter active in Brazil that has also measured a 1.6 GHz signal in the presence of an actual UFO. I would hunt up the link (it was posted in late May), but twitter is on the blink and you cannot anonymously browse right now.

originally posted by: spaceflyr
I ask what’s really going on, a planet doomed to be taken over, manipulated for nefarious purposes or peaceful relations with off world intelligences? What say you?

I think something is going on. There has been a steady drumbeat this year on revealing things. To what purpose, I have no idea. Steven Greer's recent media day had some really wild tales. That is worth looking into. There was also a guy (Mario Woods) that was in the air force who was abducted in the 1970's while serving from Ellsworth AFB. He is very credible. Well worth listening to. Then there are the doctors that treated the aliens from the Varginha, Brazil UFO crash. Very credible people with everything to lose by going public. But they did and have a fascinating story. The aliens showed them images of the end of the world. Why? Then theres Chris Bledsoe releasing a book this year telling his story. Again, end of the world prophesies. There is also the revalation of a huge UFO sighting at a Marine base in California a month ago. Then there is the story of James Fox on the track of a UFO filmed on VHS tape from the 90's where it was 30 feet away (the money shot). There were also mentions in congressional testimony that at least 60 different civilizations are interacting with us. It's been a very busy year.

My 2 cents is look into the people having actual contact and not AARO (which doesn't have the access rights to investigate anything). Sometimes the aliens tell them things. Sometimes they let them fly the ship. Sometimes they teach them mental tricks like levitating objects. Sometimes they perform nonsensical "medical procedures". Why do the experiences vary so much?

originally posted by: gortex
a reply to: spaceflyr


Lazar is a curiosity for me , I can't shake the feeling there may be something there although I wouldn't put any money on it.

Remember that Bob Lazar claims to have physical evidence for the last 35 years and has never provided a single speck of it. He also claims to have visual evidence through a video he has taken of 115 bending light but has lost the video. George Knapp says he has a copy of that video too but has misplaced it. Oops.
So you let a guy tell this fascinating tale and claim he's in possession of physical and visual evidence for the last 35 years but never needs to show it and that's okay you still believe him because he's a good story teller? In the least show the video or make a new one. You should be keeping your belief out of it and pressure Lazar for physical evidence to show this truth or he'll just continue to manipulate. I'd be pissed at him at this point if he continued to show the world he has nothing for decades and I still believed him.

Call his BS and then maybe he'll show it if he really has it. Or he'll continue this BS with talk because of groups he knows will believe him with just words.

Lazar good at lying for some people, that's what he's in possession of. I'm not even going to get into actual physicists thoughts.

a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

40 acres is a BIG backyard, and I grew up n NM.

I'd love to hear more about some better places to seek out some woo. I'm retired and want to explore the SW more this fall. Utah is on my list.

Recommendations?

a reply to: Ectoplasm8


The only thing this lazar bozo had was the honeysuckle brothel. I 100% certain knapp is fuming 30 years later because to quote"this story is worth millions" 😂

I hope the element 115 these two have buried in the desert is worth something at least

a reply to: spaceflyr

...These people to me are nothing more than opportunists looking to cash in. ...

i don't agree

those UFO/UAP believers have developed a Alternate 'Reality' which was once 'Fringe Topic' material...

Cult followers are one result Sci-Fi story creators are another....holes in our reality are plugged, unusual events are pigeon-holed as necessary.... stone age petroglyphs suggest off-worlders and medieval art suggest 'spirit-vehicles' in skies


are those hucksters worth-their -salt --- well, to me they help make the world less boring
i wont deny them their happy-hunting ground

Yes, UFO's are real and other-worldly.
Millions of people have seen them worldwide and realize that we are being visited and watched by other civilizations, not hard to understand.
It is those who have not witnessed these strange vehicles that are the skeptics and non-believers.

a reply to: RonnieJersey

So true. Its hard to put yourself in other peoples shoes if they have not felt, seen, or heard these experiences. I have seen a UFO and seen a shapeshifter. That was almost 15 years ago and I can still remember what my reactions were and how I felt. I have told only 2 people in my life about my experiences and have posted many times on forums about it though. I will post on forums about it because I do not care if people say I am mentally ill if I do not know you. To tell people in real life what you have seen might cost me me my job, family and friends. I'm not really ready to give those things up. So, I know what I saw and I can relate to other people when they say they have experienced something unusual.

a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

They have faotured dime interested footage, thst cannot be explained so easily, unless you think they faked it themselves?

a reply to: Ectoplasm8

Did he say he had physical evidence, not heard him say that.