Ocean Gate Titan submersible has no tactical beacon?

originally posted by: putnam6

Two can play at this game. Remember when people were defending Trump's intelligence with, "have you ever heard of a dumb billionaire?"

...

😬

Anyway, thanks for asking about my sister. She will live a long and prosperous life, just with extra breaks to catch her breath and reduced motor skills. She recovered more than anyone thought she would, and was actually able to go back to teaching, but some of the damage is permanent.

Poor girl is 33 now, and experiencing stuff that you usually see in a nursing home.

a reply to: putnam6

Respectfully there is no private submersible association to rate or vet the safety of such a vessel.

not to start a argument but yes there is a U.S. code to operate a submersibles for tourism in for U.S. waters they must be certified. it is enforced by the U.S. Coast Guard and American Bureau of Shipping (ABS), and two others that to my understanding all three's certifications are good for international waters, but there is no law that requires companies to have certification for international waters that i can find.

the way Oceangate got away with not being Certified and required people to sign waivers, there is no hard and fast rule for international waters

here is a book on the U.S.'s Safety of Tourist Submersibles, Chapter Two, page 14.

warning is a PDF from a book club site,

Safety of Tourist Submersibles,

the other two are, DNV out of Norway, and Lloyd's Register out England. below is a link to their sites, warning they just like others make you jump through hoops to see them, i didn't jump.

Lioyd's Register Home Certification Rules and Regulations for ships for Submersibles and Diving Systems

We are the world’s leading classification society and a recognized advisor for the maritime industry. We deliver world-renowned testing, certification and technical advisory services to the energy value chain including renewables, oil and gas, and energy management. We are one of the world’s leading certification bodies, helping businesses assure the performance of their organizations, products, people, facilities and supply chains.
DNA

ETA: i meant to post this, the lochridge guy tried to get them to get it certifed by ABS

Lochridge also strongly encouraged OceanGate to have a classification agency, such as the American Bureau of Shipping, inspect and certify the Titan.
A whistleblower raised safety concerns about OceanGate’s submersible in 2018. Then he was fired.

a reply to: putnam6

The Perfect Murder . I Think they were after the Billionaire Guy ........

originally posted by: Zanti Misfit
a reply to: putnam6

The Perfect Murder . I Think they were after the Billionaire Guy ........

They were all really rich. It was just the sum of a group of rich people's dumb, and sadly a teenage boy died from his dad's dumb.

Yes indeed!!! Too damn fishy of a circumstance a reply to: Zanti Misfit

originally posted by: LordAhriman

originally posted by: putnam6

Two can play at this game. Remember when people were defending Trump's intelligence with, "have you ever heard of a dumb billionaire?"

...

😬

Anyway, thanks for asking about my sister. She will live a long and prosperous life, just with extra breaks to catch her breath and reduced motor skills. She recovered more than anyone thought she would, and was actually able to go back to teaching, but some of the damage is permanent.

Poor girl is 33 now, and experiencing stuff that you usually see in a nursing home.

Perhaps but you never heard me say that

Sorry to hear that, it no doubt has been a wild 4-5 years it's taken it's toll on a lot of people.

originally posted by: BernnieJGato
a reply to: putnam6

Respectfully there is no private submersible association to rate or vet the safety of such a vessel.

not to start a argument but yes there is a U.S. code to operate a submersibles for tourism in for U.S. waters they must be certified. it is enforced by the U.S. Coast Guard and American Bureau of Shipping (ABS), and two others that to my understanding all three's certifications are good for international waters, but there is no law that requires companies to have certification for international waters that i can find.

the way Oceangate got away with not being Certified and required people to sign waivers, there is no hard and fast rule for international waters

here is a book on the U.S.'s Safety of Tourist Submersibles, Chapter Two, page 14.

warning is a PDF from a book club site,

Safety of Tourist Submersibles,

the other two are, DNV out of Norway, and Lloyd's Register out England. below is a link to their sites, warning they just like others make you jump through hoops to see them, i didn't jump.

Lioyd's Register Home Certification Rules and Regulations for ships for Submersibles and Diving Systems

We are the world’s leading classification society and a recognized advisor for the maritime industry. We deliver world-renowned testing, certification and technical advisory services to the energy value chain including renewables, oil and gas, and energy management. We are one of the world’s leading certification bodies, helping businesses assure the performance of their organizations, products, people, facilities and supply chains.
DNA

ETA: i meant to post this, the lochridge guy tried to get them to get it certifed by ABS

Lochridge also strongly encouraged OceanGate to have a classification agency, such as the American Bureau of Shipping, inspect and certify the Titan.
A whistleblower raised safety concerns about OceanGate’s submersible in 2018. Then he was fired.

I definitely misspoke, I edited it.

FWIW I read in the Vice article, they couldn't safety rate the carbon fiber elements among other issues, IIRC the article said they had no equipment to see if the carbon fiber layers had delaminations or voids, both of which can lead to failure.

Throw on top Ocean Gate seems to play up its relationships and contributions from Boeing and NASA to the composite hull. When later both Boeing and NASA distanced themselves from Ocean Gate and the company's belief the vessel was safe.



[url]https://www.vice.com/en/article/qjvjdb/it-is-a-huge-vast-opportunity-how-oceangate-went-from-disruptive-startup-to-catastrophic-deepsea-failure[/ url]

In a 2022 press release, OceanGate specifically credited NASA’s expertise in composite hulls for its ability to reduce the weight of the experimental Titan craft enough to carry tourists to the bottom of the ocean. “The ability to construct Titan’s pressure hull with aerospace grade carbon fiber and manufacturing protocols results in a submersible which weighs a fraction of what other deep diving crewed submersibles weigh,” said Rush. “This weight reduction allows us to carry a significantly greater payload which we use to carry five crewmembers: a pilot, researchers, and mission specialists.”

Titan began construction in earnest in 2017 and was launched in 2018. NASA records show the agency began working with OceanGate on "automated fiber placement development" via a Space Act Agreement in 2020, which the company announced at the time. Motherboard could find no Space Act Agreement records indicating collaboration with OceanGate between 2016 and 2020. NASA did not respond to a request for comment.

"Lochridge was repeatedly told that no scan of the hull or Bond Line could be done to check for delaminations, porosity and voids of sufficient adhesion of the glue being used due to the thickness of the hull. Lochridge was told that no form of equipment existed to perform such a test."

Whatever the involvement of outside experts, it doesn’t seem that the Titan’s experimental hull ever was, or even could be, properly tested for safety. David Lochridge, OceanGates’s former director of marine operations, claimed in court filings that he was wrongly fired after raising concerns about the testing of the hull—among them, specifically, was that certain testing wasn’t done at all.

"Lochridge was repeatedly told that no scan of the hull or Bond Line could be done to check for delaminations, porosity and voids of sufficient adhesion of the glue being used due to the thickness of the hull,” according to the filing. “Lochridge was told that no form of equipment existed to perform such a test."

Risk-averse navies do things differently, Ballantyne said.

"Any welds created in a military submarine hull have to be perfect, are carried out by highly skilled shipyard workers and are X-rayed to make sure there are no defects that could cause structural failure,” Ballantyne explained. “Military submarines are constantly monitored and receive major dockyard refits to ensure they can continue to operate safely for decades. All vessels have shelf life and there is an increasing need to make sure the hull integrity is safe and sound as time goes on, and so refits take longer and cost more.”

Actually, that X-Box controller has ten thousand times more cycles of testing than the space shuttle control stick. There are more of them suffering abuse from children than a NASA controller would ever see.

a reply to: FamCore

originally posted by: DeepBass
Actually, that X-Box controller has ten thousand times more cycles of testing than the space shuttle control stick. There are more of them suffering abuse from children than a NASA controller would ever see.

a reply to: FamCore

Indeed, I was wondering why that one was chosen.

This incident certainly cost all of their competitors a 5 fold increase in costs, and rightly so. I also think it is the last we will see of carbon fiber pressure vessels. The fact that they cannot be adequately tested for fatigue kind of writes the book on that.

How they were able to get away with all of the missing emergency equipment and also lying about how they 'certified' the hull is truly beyond every professional out there. It also makes their waivers toilet paper and opens them up for lawsuits , even though the net worth of this company is probably now zero.

The poor passengers not privy to how this thing was built still needed to understand that if this thing became disabled, there was really nothing that could save them. They should have insisted that there was a separate active beacon, die markers and other ocean survival mechanisms that would at least give them a slight chance.

Sad, Sad chapter in deep ocean technology and a real wake up call to those wanting to go down in one of these "experimental" coffins. God speed to all of the crew and passengers and may it never happen again.

Ga reply to: KSDakar01 CEO was a tightwad instead of highering professional submariners and engineers to design and build this toy he got a bunch of college students to do it with cobbled together parts. And the pressure compartment he had contracted out to another company but they stated he only paid for it to be depth rated to 1500 meters not the 4000 meters titanic lays at. No escape hatch, using a playstation controller for control. Hell he could have just bought a used research sub and refurbished and still come out with a safer submersible.

a reply to: CriticalStinker the way around that would be a teather hooked to mother ship

a reply to: JIMC5499

Yes and on a navy din you probably got several people who can fox it if it breaks

originally posted by: Jonah1970
a reply to: JIMC5499

Yes and on a navy din you probably got several people who can fox it if it breaks

You also have people who can do the math and say "There's no way in hell I'm getting in that thing!"

originally posted by: LordAhriman

originally posted by: Zanti Misfit
a reply to: putnam6

The Perfect Murder . I Think they were after the Billionaire Guy ........

They were all really rich. It was just the sum of a group of rich people's dumb, and sadly a teenage boy died from his dad's dumb.

You Know , the Rothchild's are Shareholders in that Company , and this kind of Story Sounds Familiar ......Hmm...

a reply to: KSDakar01

Because Radio Waves don't work well underwater (especially at those depths) unless you use ULF or ELF (Ultra Low Frequency, Extremely Low Frequency). The lower the frequency the longer the antenna you need. And I mean long.

The E6-B Mercury Aircraft, used by the US Navy to communicate with submarines at depth (which aren't NEAR as deep as the Titanic wreck) have an antenna they trail behind them that's nearly FIVE MILES long. AND they have to fly in a weird tight circle to coil it to get the proper signal. There is a neat video about it here:

youtu.be...




So having an effective "tactical beacon" isn't super practical as far as locating them, especially over using Remotes and/or Sonar. I don't know their exact coms, other than they could receive some sort of limited Text system to get directions to the wreck.


Everybody seems so shocked there isn't more "emergency equipment" and "safety systems" on this submersible. Putting the fact it was cheaply made and disregarded basic safety aside for a moment, at those depths there isn't much you can do if something goes wrong anyways.