Why be afraid when it may be a good thing to return to little house in the prairie

a reply to: NightSkyeB4Dawn

It sounds cold and like false bravado, but I think there are way too many good old boys sorta looking forward to that kind of action.

Oh, don't get me wrong. I don't say that because I look forward to it happening; I dread it happening. However, if it comes down to protecting my family's food, I won't hesitate. I can sort out those feelings of sorrow later.

It has been many years since I read a post on this site wherein the poster stated that his "plan" was to simply head out to the country and raid gardens. I remember replying to him that his idea was actually suicidal; rarely has anyone come to my door when the garden was producing, hungry and asking for aide, and left empty-handed. But if I catch someone stealing from me? That's an automatic shoot to kill. It doesn't matter what is being taken; it simply matters that whoever that is has no respect for my property and thus no respect for me or mine. I'm not going to play games over that.

I have no idea how widespread that sort of thinking is, but I prefer warning others before something very bad happens to them. Just in case.

TheRedneck

a reply to: MichiganSwampBuck

I'm not supporting nor disputing your issues with U.S. history or how it is portrayed in books like the Little House series, however, race, religion, sexual preference, and any other aspect of these post modern concerns will go right out the window when your survival and the survival of your circle of family and friends becomes the only concern anyone will have.

There is not really any disputing the issues because they exist, or did exist in days gone by, not just in America all the same, but across the globe.

Your opinion of race may change when you get a taste for human flesh as some will like dark meat better than white, but then again, I don't think that will come up as an issue when you are starving to death and dying of radiation sickness or the next bio-weapons that get released. Morality will be the first thing to go extinct, just before human beings do.

Well if im hungry enough and we have all resorted to cannibalism i certainly don't think the colour of the prey would be of much concern.

As to morality being the first thing to go under such circumstances i would tend to agree there also.

a reply to: andy06shake

Aye so that's me and the history books.

Apparently.

Cheers for the anecdote.

Books written by people who never had any connection to the time period they wrote of = incontestable fact.

Letters written by people who lived then and there = anecdote.

Got it.

you still wont change history of the facts of the matter.

You're the one with the false fixation.

Check your damn privilege, hater.

im simply telling you that history paints the story rather differently and that a return to the times reminiscent of what is portrayed in the likes of "little house on the Prairie" is a bad idea never mind in no way tenable.

And I am telling you that you are fixating on one thing among so many that were common at the time. Can you not understand that no one wants racism back? Which of those words is giving you so much trouble?

I never called you a white supremacist i simply suggested going back to such times would not bode well for anyone that's not a white supremacist

But i live in many ways the same as my forefathers. This land is family land, handed down through untold generations. Little has changed about how we treat others, with that one exception that you seem to think still exists. And I am doing just fine, thank you very much. So according to that, I must be a white supremacist.

I do still wave the Confederate Flag... there ya go, more ammo against me. Doesn't matter why I fly it... amirite? I'm sure some clueless idiot wrote something in a book once that contradicts me and I am sure they know me better than I know me. That's why other idiots believe them. Amirite?

Come on, you accuse me of "sugarcoating" history (which I am not)... don't go sugarcoating your views. Am I a white supremacist to you?

TheRedneck

a reply to: TheRedneck

Apparently.

Ile go with the evidence provided in books as opposed to your claims ta very much.

Books written by people who never had any connection to the time period they wrote of = incontestable fact.

Letters written by people who lived then and there = anecdote.

Got it.

Unless you are willing to post these alleged letters they do indeed amount to nothing more than an anecdote.

You're the one with the false fixation.

Check your damn privilege, hater.

You appear to be rather triggered now. LoL

As to hater, what is it you assume that i hate, and please try and be specific?

And I am telling you that you are fixating on one thing among so many that were common at the time. Can you not understand that no one wants racism back? Which of those words is giving you so much trouble?

The fact is it never went away for some people no matter how you may wish the case to be different, and a return to such times as those portrayed in the likes of "Little House on the Prarie" would only guarantee racism to grow given the ideologies associated with the time period.

But i live in many ways the same as my forefathers. This land is family land, handed down through untold generations. Little has changed about how we treat others, with that one exception that you seem to think still exists. And I am doing just fine, thank you very much. So according to that, I must be a white supremacist.

I would not know as im not a white supremacist, plenty of them where you hail from all the same, even over here in the UK if we are being honest.

Canny put words in my mouth TheRedneck im sure i have been through this before with you.

As to your definitions well those are yours own not mine.

I do still wave the Confederate Flag... there ya go, more ammo against me. Doesn't matter why I fly it... amirite? I'm sure some clueless idiot wrote something in a book once that contradicts me and I am sure they know me better than I know me. That's why other idiots believe them. Amirite?

Said flag could indeed be considered to be associated with racists and with links to the likes of white supremacists, so there is that, and the flag certainly galvanizes the far right.

Come on, you accuse me of "sugarcoating" history (which I am not)... don't go sugarcoating your views. Am I a white supremacist to you?

I dont know you well enough to know whether or not you are a white supremacist so my opinion would be neither here nor there.

Are you a supremacist?

Only you know the answer to that question.

My whacky wonderful woman and me, like to watch Alone™.

Figure that's how many of us will end-up.

Except when you make the extraction call : nobody is there ...

a reply to: andy06shake

I can’t deny anything you said. My family is so mixed up that we put the United Nations to shame. I have enough memories shared from so many relatives and friends that I could write a hundred books. I didn’t know it at the time, but I guess I was lucky growing up, though we were poor as church mice, during the time I grew up.

We had integrated schools a little early, because where we lived, there was only enough money for one school. We lived together, because we were too poor to let race stand in the way of a meal. Oh, there was still white supremacy, I guess it was the only thing some could hold onto that made them think their life was worth living. No matter how bad life was, at least you were not a savage or a n-ner.

There were white only and colored only signs, when you went to town, but not out where we lived. To be honest what really saved us was the military base. It was about an hour away, but that is we’re the majority of the folks that did not farm, raise livestock, or grow tobacco, worked and got their money. They also had some basic rules that probably kept the would be troublemaker in line. I am guessing there, because I was a child, so I only saw with the eyes of a child.

We had land. That is what held the community together. A certain amount of respect and pride came with the land back then. My father built our house from scratch, sorta like a Lego set and a little bit at a time. No running water or indoor bathrooms to start with.

I don’t remember any racial problems when growing up or in our community. That came later, after I was grown and had left home. Again, that is not saying there was anything that looked like racial equality in town, but that, I am sure was curtailed by the military. Folk just got along because they had to.

I see The Redneck’s side because it sounds like he is talking about a place very similar to mine. It was a much simpler time. People actually seemed to get along a lot better. I can only speak from the mind of a child l. I don’t know what the white adults were thinking, or what the colored adults were thinking. Children were seen and not heard back then.

I know there were horrible things that people did back then. There is no beauty that can be found in hatred, bigotry, racism, or injustice, regardless to how we paint it or dress it. My concern is that I see little improvement, if any in the hearts of Americans today.

You don’t have to go far. Just read the first page on any forum or other internet site. Some will try to escape the ban hammer and dress their post up a little, put fewer and fewer are even trying to bother anymore. Hatred and racism is still very strong in America.

Maybe because I was a child I didn’t feel it as thick as I feel it now. The one big difference is back then, you had people that went along with the racism and bigotry, out of fear of reprisal, but did not feel it in their heart. Today I think you have more people that speak against racism and bigotry, but stores it in their hearts, they lie and do nothing, only out of fear of reprisal.

So going back to a simpler life may be better. We both know that racism, hatred, and bigotry, will follow us wherever we go. Maybe I should not say follow us, since it is carried. Just some evil baggage many cannot free themselves of.

a reply to: NightSkyeB4Dawn

Show me a family in this day of age that's not mixed up to one degree or another?

I'm not suggesting your heart is not in the right place and you sound perfectly fine to me.

Simply that the world does not work the way that we would wish it to be nostalgia or otherwise.

And history is what it is.

My own nation is no better if that's any consolation, point of fact is some respects its worse or has been much worse.

Cannot go backward through, only forwards, or so I'm lead to believe, as down that road lies stagnation.

a reply to: musicismagic

It is possible to be surrounded by a lot of things, like lots of books for example, and still grow wiser each year to be less attached/possessive of them. I have noticed this in my life. I don't feel the need to toss them but I am not obsessive about them either, like when I was in my 20s.

Living simply is as much a mental thing as a physical one.

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: NightSkyeB4Dawn

Show me a family in this day of age that's not mixed up to one degree or another?

I'm not suggesting your heart is not in the right place and you sound perfectly fine to me.

Simply that the world does not work the way that we would wish it to be nostalgia or otherwise.

And history is what it is.

My own nation is no better if that's any consolation, point of fact is some respects its worse or has been much worse.

Cannot go backward through, only forwards, or so I'm lead to believe, as down that road lies stagnation.

I may be a bit hopeful, since I have reached the stage of my life where the only way I am going to be able to continue is to down size a lot.

You are right about going backwards, but the only way I am going to be able to keep going forward is to lighten my load. Some of this stuff has to go, and it is not always easy knowing what to hold on to and what to let go of.

I see our country a little in that same light.

We have accumulated a lot of "stuff". Stuff that may have once served a purpose but is now weighing us down. Life is ever changing. We adapt or we stagnate or fail. Letting go is not always a movement backwards, even though it may look like it. Sometimes letting go makes room for better things and allows you to move forward more easily.

Moving forward usually comes with some level of pain, regret, mistakes, lost. The price of moving forward. That is why nostalgia is often a light balm of comfort, reminding you that it has all happened before, and a little encouragement to keep moving forward.

a reply to: NightSkyeB4Dawn

Well said.

a reply to: NightSkyeB4Dawn

I look at the hearts of those that kill for self gain, and the hearts of those that will die for family and neighbor, and in my heart, I know who the winner will be.

Desire would win out nearly every time. The people wanting to kill will win. Highly charged emotions is the last thing anyone wants in a fight, especially firefights.

The 'nice' guy is going to struggle setting up ambushes and the likes since morality got in the way. They never trained to be bad. Learning under high stress and an empty stomach won't help matters much either.

Exclusive communities could work but they're going to exclude outsiders based on whatever dynamics formed within the group in the first place. That might have nothing to do with race but it will roughly translate as tribalism which only pulls towards the question of who is the worse person/group.

Let's face it, too many simply refuse to get along under the good times. If TSHTF we're kind of goosed because nobody is going to stand shoulder to shoulder with people they already perceived as the enemy.

Considering that I kinda have to agree with Andy. Group dynamics will force the issues of division, we'll most likely resort to tribalism and frankly some do look forward to that.

a reply to: andy06shake

Unless you are willing to post these alleged letters they do indeed amount to nothing more than an anecdote.

In the first place, they contain PII; this is direct family. That would be against the T&C.

In the second place, if you don't believe them when I tell you, you won't believe them if I published them. Bottom line: you are going to believe what you want to believe and damn any actual evidence.

You appear to be rather triggered now.

I tend to do that when I think someone is impugning my good name or lying about my family. How would you feel if I started impugning all UK residents? I imagine you'd be "triggered."

The fact is it never went away for some people

Sure, there are racists in society; there always will be. That doesn't detract from the vast majority who aren't racist.

If it's perfection or bust for you, be ready to bust.

I would not know as im not a white supremacist

Prove it.

plenty of them where you hail from all the same

Nowhere near as many as in the Northeastern USA. Bet your book didn't mention that, did it? The reason is there aren't many black folk up there to start with, so no one cares. We have a pretty large percentage of the population who are black folk (who are treated just like anyone else), so there's plenty of opportunity for what few racists are left to make a stink.

I have heard the most vile, disgusting, downright filthy slurs sitting in Bordentown, NJ that I have ever heard in a lifetime of living in Alabama, and not one was using a Southern accent.

Again, you are just spouting propaganda.

As to your definitions well those are your own not mine.

I didn't ask you to give me my definition. I asked you to give me your definition. The fact that you can't means you are just making up stuff to suit your propaganda.

Said flag could indeed be considered to be associated with racists and with links to the likes of white supremacists, so there is that.

I could link that UK flag to all sorts of inhumane things. So there is that. I guess I need to consider the entire UK as racist.

I dont know you well enough to know whether or not you are a white supremacist so my opinion would be neither here nor there.

Oh, come on now, don't be shy. You seem to know me well enough to know that I want to restore discrimination and possibly even slavery (even though that is patently false). You even know how my ancestors lived in the late 19th century! I bet you know what foods they ate and what they did, too.

Please, expound on all this knowledge you are keeping to yourself! Why I bet you even know what is playing on my TV right now, too. After all, it is you who turned this thread into a thread on racism... so why stop now?

TheRedneck

a reply to: andy06shake

Shall we discuss England and quibbles with the Scots, Welsh, Irish, Picts, Saxons, Norse, Danes, Belgium, French, German, Roman, Moors, etc?

Brits have been evil to every country, race, tribe and probably family on the planet. But we are not saying anything…and yes this is ancient history…but also modern to this day England with the BNP.

Human nature is to mistrust the unknown. And when the unknown is easily quantified it easily becomes prejudice.

originally posted by: RAY1990
a reply to: NightSkyeB4Dawn

I look at the hearts of those that kill for self gain, and the hearts of those that will die for family and neighbor, and in my heart, I know who the winner will be.

Desire would win out nearly every time. The people wanting to kill will win. Highly charged emotions is the last thing anyone wants in a fight, especially firefights.

The 'nice' guy is going to struggle setting up ambushes and the likes since morality got in the way. They never trained to be bad. Learning under high stress and an empty stomach won't help matters much either.

Exclusive communities could work but they're going to exclude outsiders based on whatever dynamics formed within the group in the first place. That might have nothing to do with race but it will roughly translate as tribalism which only pulls towards the question of who is the worse person/group.

Let's face it, too many simply refuse to get along under the good times. If TSHTF we're kind of goosed because nobody is going to stand shoulder to shoulder with people they already perceived as the enemy.

Considering that I kinda have to agree with Andy. Group dynamics will force the issues of division, we'll most likely resort to tribalism and frankly some do look forward to that.

You might be right. I hope we never are put to the test.

I think people that kill just because, and have nothing to lose, don’t fear death, and may actually, deep down inside, wish for it, and really don’t care if they live or die. Those that are willing to sacrifice self for those they love, have a bit of an edge.

I saw a tiny oriental woman pull a dumpster off her child, held it with one hand, and pulled her child out from under it with the other. I will never forget that. It took a truck to put that dumpster back upright again.

What the human spirit is capable of, is often a mystery, and frequently way outside of what we think we are capable of.

I still am rooting for the good guys. If I lose it is over anyway.

originally posted by: NightSkyeB4Dawn
a reply to: nickyw

there is to much hate for each other to ever go little house in the prairie, unless its a version where they all are feuding, torturing and killing each other..

I live in the woods. We don’t have to love each other out here. As long as I can remember, and I have been around long enough to do a lot of remembering, there has always been an asshole or two in our midst. Survival does not require hating and killing. Also does not require loving and kumbaya either. Survival requires intelligence, respect, sharing and working together.

No doubt there will be bad actors afoot. Another reason to work with others so you can close eyes every day or so, and occasionally take a crap, because those two things will be two of the most likely things that will get you killed in a SHTF scenario, and they are two things that you will not be able to avoid. If you try to go all lone wolf, keep that in mind.

Counting on and partnering with our communities for us that live in the woods is going to be the most important aspect of our survival and mental wellness IMO.

The lone wolf aspect is for when that falls apart, if it does.

a reply to: TheRedneck

In the first place, they contain PII; this is direct family. That would be against the T&C.

In the second place, if you don't believe them when I tell you, you won't believe them if I published them. Bottom line: you are going to believe what you want to believe and damn any actual evidence.

Why would i not believe them?

And im sure you could edit out any parts that breach the TnC if you wanted to, might actually be rather interesting.

tend to do that when I think someone is impugning my good name or lying about my family. How would you feel if I started impugning all UK residents? I imagine you'd be "triggered."

Apparently, so, thing is i don't even know your name or anything about your family so there is that.

As to impugning all UK residents, you fire away, if they are doing anything wrong like being racist or suggesting a return to the likes of the 18th century to be a preferable scenario which would equate to the likes of Dickensian workhouse shenanigans and whatnot, ile probably help.

Prove it.

Naw you will simply have to trust me, i mean i could do so, but like you suggest it would run contrary to the TnC of the site.

My posting history certainly does not suggest me to be a racist or white supremacist.

Ffs sake it has been suggested by some nutters here at ATS that i am not even white, i believe words like Muslim have even been chucked around in the past. LoL

Nowhere near as many as in the Northeastern USA. Bet your book didn't mention that, did it? The reason is there aren't many black folk up there to start with, so no one cares. We have a pretty large percentage of the population who are black folk (who are treated just like anyone else), so there's plenty of opportunity for what few racists are left to make a stink.

I have heard the most vile, disgusting, downright filthy slurs sitting in Bordentown, NJ that I have ever heard in a lifetime of living in Alabama, and not one was using a Southern accent.

Again, you are just spouting propaganda.

Again im spouting historical fact, you are the one that seems to have an issue with history books.

I didn't ask you to give me my definition. I asked you to give me your definition. The fact that you can't means you are just making up stuff to suit your propaganda.

My definition well take a look at the racist sausages in those videos which pritty much tick the boxes of how i would define "white supremacists".

Oh, come on now, don't be shy. You seem to know me well enough to know that I want to restore discrimination and possibly even slavery (even though that is patently false). You even know how my ancestors lived in the late 19th century! I bet you know what foods they ate and what they did, too.

I think you may mean "dont" want to restore discrimination and possibly even slavery else that would indeed be the very definition of a white supremacist.

Please, expound on all this knowledge you are keeping to yourself! Why I bet you even know what is playing on my TV right now, too. After all, it is you who turned this thread into a thread on racism... so why stop now?

Bet in one claw son, crap in the other im sure know perfectly well which one will fill up first.

If you don't know what you are TheRedneck im sorry but im not going to be the one to tell you.

As to what's playing on your TV right now a series of images would be my bet.

As to turning the thread into about racism, thing there is, its a fact that "little house in the Prairie" is indeed considered to be somewhat racist considering some of the outdated views displayed in the show.

And a return to such times, even though its completely untenable, would indeed amount to a return to racist colonialism given what transpired in the past.

As to why stop now, well I'm about to have my dinner if thats ok with you?

a reply to: Ahabstar

Shall we discuss England and quibbles with the Scots, Welsh, Irish, Picts, Saxons, Norse, Danes, Belgium, French, German, Roman, Moors, etc?

If you wish i don't have any sort of issue broaching those topics.

Brits have been evil to every country, race, tribe and probably family on the planet. But we are not saying anything…and yes this is ancient history…but also modern to this day England with the BNP.

Put Rome to shame in some respects.

Im Scottish by the way Ahabstar as well as being British, So if you wish to go on about England and the BNP be my guest, my understanding is most self-respecting Englishmen think them to be a shower of moronic racist muppets in this day of age all the same.

Human nature is to mistrust the unknown. And when the unknown is easily quantified it easily becomes prejudice.

Trust is for people who don't know better, but kind of hard to get anything done in this world without a modicum of such.

As to prejudice, i would not even know where to start given some of the daft-arsed things people harbor towards one another.

originally posted by: Nothin
My whacky wonderful woman and me, like to watch Alone™.

Figure that's how many of us will end-up.

Except when you make the extraction call : nobody is there ...

If there was a show I could choose for people to watch to get a grip on what the truth is on survival, that show is probably the closest I've seen.

I'd recommend it to anyone even thinking of bugging out...

Stay away form Bear Gryllis or any of those clowns...they'll teach you how to die quickly..

a reply to: andy06shake

Proves the point though. The British Isles are roughly the size of Florida and look at the wars between the peoples just there up to 25 years ago when The Troubles ended. Which technically began in the 1960’s but really goes back to Easter of 1916 and the war for Irish Independence.

Scotland had its own problems stemming back to Robert the Bruce.

More than 70% of America’s problems were leftover from European Colonialism anyway. We sorted a lot out in the nearly 250 years without totalitarianism. Yet some think that is the only way to run things.

Popular thread. Clearly it resonates with a lot of people.

But any post-collapse society would be more like Little House Without a Prayer-y. If you want to see what they're really like, observe postcolonial (and post-Soviet) failed states in the present-day world. No high-principled pioneers living the simple life in small, consensual communities, oh no. More like warlordism, civil conflict, institutionalised corruption, economic collapse, anarchy. That's what inevitably follows the collapse of civilized states. Eventually water finds its own level and a new feudalism -- the lowest post-agrarian form of human society -- reemerges.

If that's what you want, go for it, man. Some of you actually fancy your chances, don't you -- 'If I catch them stealing that's a shooting offence!' Oo, scary. But what if they're younger than you, old chap, and there are more of them, and they have more firepower? Will you enjoy the sense of affirmation as you bleed out, and they step over you as they carry your stash out the door?

You'll enjoy the plagues, too. And the famines, the purges and inquisitions, the extortionate taxes and the forced conscription. Rediscover the dilatory backbreaking pleasuresof the barter system. Some people don't know when they have it good, but fine, fine. Who knows, some of us might turn out to be well cut out for it.

Don't call me, though -- I'll be relaxing in my scientific and cultural redoubt, nuclear-powered, well fortified and provisioned, watching your thrashings-about via drone camera.