What the freak is going on here? No truckers? No TRUCKS!

a reply to: TheRedneck

Nice one, Red. I spent some time at Ford Motor Comp, talking to transport.

With all you said, plus your log of road time, the fines, repairs, gas, inspects n permits...holy crap!

I don't know how any own/ops survive?

Great bunch. Great. And every-one of them loves it. Shame...

a reply to: JinMI

How cheap will drivers work for?

That depends. A 21-year-old will work cheaper than a 25-year-old. An 18-year-old will work cheaper than that. I would assume a 12-year-old would work even cheaper.

When I was driving, CDL holders had to be 25 years old. Now they have to be 21 years old. DOT is considering letting 18-year-old drivers get a CDL. I won't be surprised if there's an exemption eventually passed that allows 12-year-olds to get a CDL... just not drive a car until they are 16.

For the rest of the class, what unintended consequences would that create?

That depends on whether or not someone in government is idiotic enough to allow autonomous trucks.

If not, the number of accidents will skyrocket. We are already past the point where newbie drivers, some with as little as 6 months experience, are actually training new recruits. I was asked to become a trainer when I had 6 months experience... I said no, because I knew i wasn't ready.

Insurance companies knew for decades what we now know as well... the human brain does not completely develop until around age 25. The last areas to develop concern forethought and planning... two absolutely necessary things a driver must have. As the number of accidents rise, the number of drivers will decrease because no company will even consider hiring a driver who has a bad driving record. It's literally one strike and you're driving for a traveling carny show or siting at home. That will force younger drivers to be allowed, and that will further increase the number of accidents.

The good news is that the personal injury lawyers will have a field day. I can envision TPTB extending the time limits for filing a personal injury claim because there's not enough lawyers to handle them all.

If automation is implemented, it will be even worse. The supply chain will literally disintegrate. The amount of thought and decision making that goes into getting a 40-ton truck from one end of the country to another, through road construction, inclement weather, allowing for fuel stops (and unexpected fuel shortages), and making sure one avoids the moving speed bumps along the way, is mind-boggling. The computer that can accomplish that with any hope of safety is yet to be conceived of.

I'm not saying there's no chance that automated trucks will not come into use; I'm saying that when they do, the supply chain disruptions will make everything we have seen so far pale in comparison. The roads will also become killing fields, the likes of which we cannot conceive of. If automated trucks are implemented, it will be because there is no possible way to move freight otherwise... there will be no one left willing to risk their life, sacrifice family and home, and bust their butts for low wages and continual disgust from everyone they meet.

TheRedneck

a reply to: mysterioustranger

Anyone who doesn't love the road is simply not driving. It's one of those jobs that you have to love or it's just too much to bear.

I'll admit, I loved the freedom of the road. I'd wake up, have some time to relax and get my bearings, my "office" was literally two steps from my bed, and I decided when I would drive, how long I would drive, and the exact route I would drive. As long as I made delivery on time and didn't completely bust regulations, all was good.

But that's changed... now one cannot even fudge those regulations; the logs are electronic and automatic. Companies now dictate specific routes and it takes a call into dispatch if any issues come up... like the time I had to drop down from I-40 to I-20 to escape a blizzard. I just happened to get a call from a friend ahead of me on I-40 who warned me, said the roads were about to be closed and everyone was shut down. I had to grab I-35 at OK City and scoot on down into Texas to keep moving and make the load. I called dispatch to let them know en route... no way I would have made it if I had to wait on them at all; as it was, I was starting to play slip-n-slide as I left OK City.

All the joy has gone out of trucking... and none of the bad has gone out with it. My hat is off to those who still hang in there, despite having to deal with the solar-powered steering wheel holders that now populate the transportation companies.

TheRedneck

Well, I can tell you up here, in mid MI, every single one of the driving schools have been leased out, though the rest of the year, by corporations.
If you're just a person off the street, wanting to pony up 5 to 7 grand, to go to truck driving school, (where they are only teaching 10 speeds, not 18, nor double clutching) you are out of luck. Pepsi, Martin Brower and other big guys have booked up the schools.

So those people, I feel sorry for.
The places I don't, are like the one I worked for, who are now doing illegal things, like having an on staff driver trainer, THAT DOES NOT HAVE HIS CDL ANYMORE, training drivers. And forcing young drivers to sign contracts, that aren't even legal!

That isn't helping the industry at all, especially since they haul loads for farmers. The owner is going to not only go down, but hurt the farmers as well.

originally posted by: TheRedneck...

I don't have all the information yet on why this is happening, but I will... and if anyone else has any insights I definitely want to hear them. It looks to me like someone is trying to drive the independent driver out of business so the companies will have an oligarchy on the industry. And it's quite likely that this ties in with the regular shortages we see, because everything comes to your neighborhood on a truck. Is all this, the shortages, the faltering economy, all because someone behind the scenes is trying to gain an individual advantage for themselves at the cost of everyone else?

Something's just not smelling right..
...

You nailed it! It all boils down to control.

Look at what happened to small businesses during the first wave of mass mandatory house arrests. ("Quarantine" my ass!) Small businesses suffered and many went completely under while big corporations prospered.

What'd make you think that that strategy would stop with the Walmarts and Amazons and McDonald's?

trucking owner-operators are getting the nudge to re-train for something else....

just as the 'family farmer' is being erased by several things...billionaires like Gates just plunked $13million on 2,100 acres in Dakota

the complete economic landscape is in flux

the plan is to delete 'inflation' from the Economic Equation and use 'premium' as the actual cause for higher prices and availability of parts/services/labor/expertise and supply-chain hiccups----- all avoided via $ + Premium payment

I read the writing on the wall long ago that the OTR driver was done. Just a matter of time.

Most things that do not have a shelf life are packed Intermodal. Chinese warehouse, cargo ship, train, rail yard, rack trailer, then finally broken down in a distribution warehouse. Here it could be sent by box truck or maybe a semi. But outside the city and into a large city…box truck.

Driving was going to be local or regional. The long haul would be perishable goods or expedited freight. Both are best handled by a team for now…or automation when it is really here.

When I drove, 31 cents per mile as a company driver wasn’t bad 38 cents was pretty good and 41 cents was usually getting into union territory. I heard of low end getting 27 cents. There was a pilot program allowing Mexican drivers to break the 100 mile limit at 10-12 cents per mile single or team. So 1/4 the pay was out there in limited use.

I did a co-op paying fuel for the surcharge (12-25 cents per mile) and a base rate of $0.87-$1.20 per mile. The owner handled maintenance, taxes, insurance, etc. for $.45-$.85 cents per mile I drove. So with his three trucks plus 100% of a fourth truck he drove…he was doing okay. As a solo driver I was buried. When driving I was okay. Sitting became expensive quick. AC doesn’t work without burning fuel. 110 F heat index on an asphalt lot means AC.

Automated trucks will do poorly in high wind conditions. Actually just about any flexible heavy weather condition. I have gone from the windshield wipers carving out an 8 inch thick cave of snow to see to an inch per hour rain in a matter of 45 minutes and only about 800 feet of elevation change.

Good luck with sensors seeing stopped traffic with cars in ditches in that and not obliterating people and cars.

a reply to: Zaphod58

Too bad idk what the latching mechanism looks like and it’s tech specs are, I’d make on for you in my shop.

A couple months ago I had to make new parts for my neighbors cab over from the late 80’s, he had the same problem trying to source parts.

a reply to: TheRedneck

I don't know about trucking or truckers.

I do know the medical industry though.

And they (we) are running out of staff, equipment, parts, even lab tubes for blood tests etc.

I still need to hire at least two Gunthers and no one is applying.

No one is even training!

a reply to: Brotherman

They have something similar you can find online, but apparently they aren’t rated for trucks or some BS. It actually could be considered a safety issue, because the door won’t latch closed, and all the engine heat comes up right behind the cab and in through the door. With the extreme temps that we get here, and the fact that the AC on the truck is laughable, especially with the door being open, it gets godawful hot.

a reply to: Zaphod58

Fortunately for my buddy he had a manual and was able to find out everything about his part. Fortunately the material was just 4140 and heat, stress wasn’t much of an issue.

a reply to: TheRedneck

I can tell you there's no shortage of truckers here in Oregon. They're a constant source of irritation for me driving up and down Interstate 5.

Owner-operators are facing more problems than union drivers, as the unions are buying up repair shops and many warehouses are going union.
a Owner-operator i know has had a number of loads that he got to warehouses on Friday and on time only to be told he could not be unloaded till Monday only to see union trucks that got there after him being unloaded and loaded all weekend.

a reply to: TheRedneck

I have a facebook connection who drives and he messaged me asking if I had heard anything about an impending diesel shortage.

He has not said anything about trouble with parts and maintenance.

a reply to: ketsuko

We had a brief shortage at one of the truck stops around me, but it only lasted a few days, and there are five or six other truck stops around here.

a reply to: TheRedneck

I don't have all the information yet on why this is happening, but I will... and if anyone else has any insights I definitely want to hear them. It looks to me like someone is trying to drive the independent driver out of business so the companies will have an oligarchy on the industry. And it's quite likely that this ties in with the regular shortages we see, because everything comes to your neighborhood on a truck. Is all this, the shortages, the faltering economy, all because someone behind the scenes is trying to gain an individual advantage for themselves at the cost of everyone else?

Something's just not smelling right...

I suspect the idea you're (correctly) driving at is "federalized capitalism" which is essentially socialism in any other language. Product and distribution belong to the administration.

originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: JinMI
That depends on whether or not someone in government is idiotic enough to allow autonomous trucks.

Well, the good news is that many of these folks are not idiotic at all.

The bad news is that they arent idiotic at all..

Ive said it before, but the whole plan here is to replace workers with automation ASAP. Most people are aware of the momentum of this tech, of course, but it must be in place before the general population figures out that the real battle was for who controls automation.

Currently, the general public thinks most of it is generations out and "scifi nonsense." It isnt obviously, but that will preclude those individuals from examining the reality of the situation on any side.. much less different implementations than massive, centralized control of all automation.

In the current course, there will be no need to pull punches any more. Things like worker strikes will be a thing of the past, much less events like the trucker protests. Deliveries will only be made to addresses, companies, and individuals that have a high enough rating. To get there as quickly as possible, there will be growing pains and these growing pains will be sold to the general public as virtuous and as a "duty." Part of those growing pains are controlling the supply chain on every front; anything from parts to food & groceries to energy/fuel. Its a multi-prong approach, but two major tines are implementing automated systems while eradicating any and all smaller businesses as well as weakening the individuals ability to do ..anything.. without the involvement of a large, centralized bureaucracy or corporation.

Basically, "Build Back Better" has to be accomplished after a controlled demolition. Things like accidents, human deaths, safety, etc. are irrelevant in the larger scheme. They are just PR problems, nothing more, and the public will be convinced its for the "greater good," & "to save the world," and only a temporary, necessary evil until the technology improves.

He/she/they/us/it who controls automation will control the world. And under the current path, it will be a level of control that the world has never seen before. As invasive as it is pervasive, with on-demand witch hunts stirred up against any and all dissent.

Of course, there are other paths still available to humanity. The march and progression of technology has always been unstoppable (sans total civilizational collapse), and the level of control it affords ebbs and flows as society becomes accustomed to new potential and opportunity throughout history. For the first time though, we have the opportunity to build a foundation that takes most of the benefit of centralized systems and implement them in a decentralized manner. i.e. the control of automation will be at a household level where each home has everything they need to be self-sufficient, as opposed to the control of automation being held by massive corporations and bureaucracies on the global scale.

Both paths will take time. Ideally, the decentralized path would have progressed much further than it has. But, no one was listening 20, 10, or even 5 years ago. People still arent really listening in general, but more are.

The real technological/cultural battle will occur 3-5 generations from now, where whatever system prevails in this current conflict will face a situation that makes the one existing today look like a leisurely stroll through a park during perfect weather. The current path of centralized control is unlikely to be able to handle it without remarkably horrific and terrifying measures that will likely result in the collapse of our entire civilization. They would try, sure, and their hubris and arrogance removes all room for doubt or self-awareness, but.. they will fail. And everyone will be left lamenting "how could this have happened?"

So, even if the decentralized approach is a more appealing option here and now, it becomes even more prudent when examining the future. Tragically, the ability and tendency to even consider the future has long been weakened in order to embed an inculcated attention span of 7-10 days (for easier control, naturally).

Supply lines in general are critical to control, as they have been throughout history. So, here we are.

a reply to: TheRedneck

The last few years i have been reading online of people with 150-200k rigs sitting idle waiting for a 20 buck part for the engine and a 3 month wait for the part , maybe its China doing it on purpose !. if you knew somebody over there who could source the parts and airmail them it would be quicker than waiting weeks/months .

It maybe cheaper flying a mechanic in from somewhere else , i have a friend who flew from the Uk to Australia and did a job for a family member of theirs and it was cheaper than getting a local guy ? .

And getting the dye of of diesel , white bread or spill dry dude .www.seton.co.uk...< br />

The elephant in the room is emissions parts and DEF.
I work as a tech at a Freightliner dealership we have 30 trucks waiting on "one boxes" one boxes hold the DOC and DPF filters. When they become too dirty the trucks are incrementally DRated to a maximum of 5 MPH.
The manufacturer produces 85 a day for repair/replacement & there are over 10,000 on back order. We got one in the other day that had been ordered a year ago.
Equipment that sets for a year will have all kinds of other problems upon returning to duty.

DEF is 33% urea in de-ionized water Russia is major player in urea exports and they stopped exports.
Urea is also used as nitrogen fertilizer and some sources say the fertilizer production has been diverted to supply DEF. So it's a now win situation.

a reply to: arkansasstone

My company had issues getting DPF/DEF parts, so we got smart and just deleted them. Theres no real testing here for it, and most of us aren't fans of freezing to death at sub -40 when they DEF system #s the bed and leaves us stranded. Getting parts has been hit and miss for us. I know a Peterbilt headlight computer box has been an issue for one of our trucks.