German Parliament blitzkriegs Putin Heavy Weapons Supplies for Ukraine

I probably have read more about WWII than any point in our history and Im definitely a history nut,

That said I never thought I'd see the day Germany, Poland, France, and the US would oppose Russia so decisively. NATO is playing this so sure-handedly? If my reading history and military history have shown me anything, in war nothing is certain. How can NATO be so sure Putin won't go literally ballistic at one point? There is an ace up someone's sleeve. If it was really even a threat of expanding war, wouldn't it be more prudent to not advertise what heavy arms a country might be shipping?

None of it adds up, Putin has to know gaining and keeping the territory is highly unlikely. On the diplomatic side, it all feels like theater...

Germany’s parliament approved a cross-party motion urging the government to quickly supply Ukraine with heavy weapons and other equipment to bolster its defense against invading Russian forces.

The three parties in Chancellor Olaf Scholz’s coalition and the largest opposition group -- which combined hold over 80% of the seats in the lower house of parliament -- put aside their differences and teamed up to support the motion in a show of broad solidarity for the government in Kyiv.

In the rare collaboration, the measure was passed on Thursday with 586 out of 693 votes and only the far-right and far-left parties refused to back the plan. The motion also calls for an end to imports of Russian oil and gas and criticized China over its support for Moscow.

a reply to: putnam6

It is the Ronald Reagan move.

Peace through strength. History has proved that if you don't draw the line in the sand, the aggressors keep going.

When has appeasement worked?

Neville Chamberlain comes to mind.

How did Neville Chamberlain achieve peace in our time?
Seeking to avoid war in Europe, leaders from Britain, France and Italy signed the Munich Pact on September 29, 1938, agreeing to Hitler's demands and ceding Czechoslovakia to Germany.

yeah, that didn't work

originally posted by: putnam6
I probably have read more about WWII than any point in our history and Im definitely a history nut,

That said I never thought I'd see the day Germany, Poland, France, and the US would oppose Russia so decisively. NATO is playing this so sure-handedly? If my reading history and military history have shown me anything, in war nothing is certain. How can NATO be so sure Putin won't go literally ballistic at one point? There is an ace up someone's sleeve. If it was really even a threat of expanding war, wouldn't it be more prudent to not advertise what heavy arms a country might be shipping?

None of it adds up, Putin has to know gaining and keeping the territory is highly unlikely. On the diplomatic side, it all feels like theater...

Germany’s parliament approved a cross-party motion urging the government to quickly supply Ukraine with heavy weapons and other equipment to bolster its defense against invading Russian forces.

The three parties in Chancellor Olaf Scholz’s coalition and the largest opposition group -- which combined hold over 80% of the seats in the lower house of parliament -- put aside their differences and teamed up to support the motion in a show of broad solidarity for the government in Kyiv.

In the rare collaboration, the measure was passed on Thursday with 586 out of 693 votes and only the far-right and far-left parties refused to back the plan. The motion also calls for an end to imports of Russian oil and gas and criticized China over its support for Moscow.

if it has to go through politicians, there's no hiding it and they may as well just milk it for propaganda purposes.

it's not like russia doesn't have satellites and doesn't know what they're doing anyway.

also, who told you they're not trying to start a bigger conflict? you believe them when they say that nobody wants it? get real.

It isn't too smart for the countries that may be involved in a war in the near future to send so much weapons to the Ukraine. I hope that Biden is listening to our military people that have common sense...but I fear he is not. Does the USA and these countries gave the extra weapons on hand to be giving this much away? I don't know, but I do know that we can't trust the present Biden administration to have common sense...in fact, they don't seem to have any sense, common or otherwise.

Russia is using very little of their best weapons in this war, and they have been spending plenty on building their military because their cost of production is way less than we have here. We throw lots of profits at military suppliers who pay high wages, Russia can do much more with their military bucks...and China can make three times as much weapons with less money than the US spends on their military contractors.

a reply to: infolurker

When has appeasement worked?

I remember Qaddafi giving up Libya's push to go nuclear as well as destroying all of it's WMD chemical weapons to appease the US and the west so that sanctions against Libya may be lifted.

So yeah, seems appeasement isn't a reasonable option.

a reply to: putnam6

My guess is they're counting on Putin going balistic. Rethorically he already has, symbolically too with his huge table, that's not something those folks take lightly, they do love their nice words and protocols and symbols.
Germany also bought the fancy new Israeli anti-missile tech. So yeah that's my guess. Provoke him into an attack, shoot them down and retaliate with all proper justification.
Putin should know that. Alas he also should've known they won't let him just have Ukraine. Or that it will definitely escalate if he tries.

Apparently someone has not great intelligence. Or is really really desperate.

a reply to: myselfaswell

He still got shafted with a bayonet, and all their gold evaporated.That's appeasement for you.

a reply to: putnam6

How can NATO be so sure Putin won't go literally ballistic at one point? 

How can we be so sure that this isnt the desired outcome?

From my reading and perception, russia invading was a desired result from NATO, especiall when you consider their public vs private stance.

Initially, my thoughts were that russias ultimate aim was to take the donbass and Mariupol. Creating a landmass to Crimea.

Now, with escalations in Odessa into Transnistria, im thinking they want to landlock Ukraine.

With Germany and Poland getting worried and Ukraine targeting russian border towns, i fear its only a matter of time for the full force of the west to mobilize.

The unknowns are, who will come to Russias aid?

a reply to: rickymouse

Our potus has deep financial and alleged criminal ties in Ukraine.

I expect nothing but him to pursue those interests.

originally posted by: jedi_hamster

originally posted by: putnam6
I probably have read more about WWII than any point in our history and Im definitely a history nut,

That said I never thought I'd see the day Germany, Poland, France, and the US would oppose Russia so decisively. NATO is playing this so sure-handedly? If my reading history and military history have shown me anything, in war nothing is certain. How can NATO be so sure Putin won't go literally ballistic at one point? There is an ace up someone's sleeve. If it was really even a threat of expanding war, wouldn't it be more prudent to not advertise what heavy arms a country might be shipping?

None of it adds up, Putin has to know gaining and keeping the territory is highly unlikely. On the diplomatic side, it all feels like theater...

Germany’s parliament approved a cross-party motion urging the government to quickly supply Ukraine with heavy weapons and other equipment to bolster its defense against invading Russian forces.

The three parties in Chancellor Olaf Scholz’s coalition and the largest opposition group -- which combined hold over 80% of the seats in the lower house of parliament -- put aside their differences and teamed up to support the motion in a show of broad solidarity for the government in Kyiv.

In the rare collaboration, the measure was passed on Thursday with 586 out of 693 votes and only the far-right and far-left parties refused to back the plan. The motion also calls for an end to imports of Russian oil and gas and criticized China over its support for Moscow.

if it has to go through politicians, there's no hiding it and they may as well just milk it for propaganda purposes.

it's not like russia doesn't have satellites and doesn't know what they're doing anyway.

also, who told you they're not trying to start a bigger conflict? you believe them when they say that nobody wants it? get real.

Oh respectfully BS if this were serious it could be decided privately what country is sending what. TPTB want it to be known is the only reason they are doing this I can see is to twist the knife on Putin and make him do something drastic, or its just saber-rattling

LOL Russian satellites probably work as well as Russian tanks and other heavy weapons have. I wouldn't count on Russian tech or its maintenance right now. Not saying they aren't dangerous, but NATO has the upper hand here and they know it. I would like to know why and It isn't because of simplistic Ronald Reagan BS, or because Russia is like Nazi Germany was in WWII.

The military doesn't let you know dingus unless they can use it as an advantage. Right now it's just the politicians deeking around and playing war, flouting the headlines.

Well if we are gonna draw parallels to history, SO should we expect Putin to target NATO shipments? as Hitler surely did in WWII with his PT boats to great effect. I would imagine that would incite things a bit...

a reply to: infolurker

It is the Ronald Reagan move.
You mean that same move that created a massive blowback?

a reply to: JinMI

Our potus has deep financial and alleged criminal ties in Ukraine.

Not just the current admin but also the Canadian govt..

originally posted by: myselfaswell
a reply to: infolurker

When has appeasement worked?

I remember Qaddafi giving up Libya's push to go nuclear as well as destroying all of it's WMD chemical weapons to appease the US and the west so that sanctions against Libya may be lifted.

So yeah, seems appeasement isn't a reasonable option.

Yea but that was America... he was fine for a while till it wasn't and the next thing he knew Arab Spring had him running through the desert trying to not have a knife shoved up his ...

a reply to: putnam6

Underestimating the enemy has been the downfall of quite a few campaigns. If a greater war is in the pipeline,I would use all the old gear first, test the response, and listen to where the chain of command was directing the action. Then when I was sure take out the command structure. The prize would be all of the Russian resources, which will need more than the combined armies of the world to secure. In a place where the locals plan for 40 below for half the year, then a month of deep mud, Napoleon tried it, and Hitler tried it. If you were lucky you got to ride a horse some of the way home before you had to eat it. The locals are still there, probably still using the donated German machinery.

originally posted by: rickymouse
We throw lots of profits at military suppliers who pay high wages, Russia can do much more with their military bucks...and China can make three times as much weapons with less money than the US spends on their military contractors.

A 10cent bullet and a 10$ bullet could be the same..lol
When the only difference is ...

All the hunter bidens of all the politician class need $$$ jobs without effort as useless CEOs.

originally posted by: putnam6
Well if we are gonna draw parallels to history, SO should we expect Putin to target NATO shipments? as Hitler surely did in WWII with his PT boats to great effect. I would imagine that would incite things a bit...

Probably why Russia and China has ships docked in Cuba just in case and a load of subs sitting quietly of Americans coast . A old rich guy like Putin never made this move for nothing maybe he wants to write his name in history like Stalin but he has something up his sleeves for sure ,none of this makes sense on the given data that we are getting from the MSM

a reply to: stonerwilliam

You mean like the US installing and building 800+ bases around all Europe? than wondering why the debt is rising?

a reply to: JinMI

The unknowns are, who will come to Russias aid

While I am worried what happens if we push Russia too far... I'm not so much worried about who comes to their aid.

China will be just fine getting discounted oil without being too materially involved. They're not one for ride or die alliances either, especially Russia in the current state. What do they have to gain from a confrontation with the west? The west is what had China growing at record pace. China has invested a lot into the silk road, why become a pariah and be confined to the east for trade?

Iran comes to mind, but Russia and Iran both need to unload oil. Europe at the very least will go to them before Russia soon, and the second they team up with Russia they're stuck again. They almost have competing interests.

The rest of Russia's potential allies are essentially non threats.

a reply to: CriticalStinker

One word.

Taiwan.

China doesnt necessarily need to be involved, but theyd be foolish to miss the opportunity.