Did Ukrainian forces blow up the Moskva, a Russian warship full of ammunition?

a reply to: Member3877


This was russia's BEST air defense ship and losing it leaves the rest of the fleet extremely vulnerable to further attacks.

The russians know this and were reported to have moved the rest of the fleet out of the range of Ukrainian missiles.

If this is true, it knocked the russian navy completely out of the war, and right on the footsteps of their Crimean naval base.

If they haven't been moved out of range, Ukraine still likely needs rough seas so the missile can hide in the background noise like these two did.

a reply to: PatriotGames4u

Agreed. This puts the Russian fleet in a precarious spot as they are potentially locked out of added to the Black Sea because of Turkey.

It has been interesting to see Ukraines use of drones, perhaps that is still an option if they can be covertly deployed closer to where the ships are stationed.

a reply to: PatriotGames4u

It's true PatriotGames4u Ukraine suck there battleship.

Allegedly, the tracking capabilities of the Moskva(180 degree ark) were compromised via a combat drone sent at the vessel so as to occupy or confuse the ships tracking capabilities allowing the missiles to reach the target unmolested and undetected.

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: PatriotGames4u

It's true PatriotGames4u Ukraine sunk their battleship.

Allegedly, the tracking capabilities of the Moskva(180 degree ark) were compromised via a combat drone sent at the vessel so as to occupy or confuse the ships tracking capabilities allowing the missiles to reach the target unmolested and undetected.

I think what you described is accurate, though I think multiple drones were likely used to exploit this known (but never before tested) weakness in russia's latest systems.

I also think the rough seas were still necessary to blind the russian CWIS, this is a really tough engineering challenge that we only really solved around 20 years ago, while the russian ship's systems were 40 years old (and not high tech at the time) so they almost certainly suffer the same weaknesses as we did back then.

Argentina's Exocet caused us to invest an absolute fortune into solving that particular challenge for the U.S. Navy, it appears that russia didn't do the same.

Not sure if it’s been said here. Ukraine is saying 2 ships sank. A Russian ship went to assist and firefight and ended up sinking as well.

The Russian military tried to save the missile cruiser "Moscow" and extinguish the fire on the deck of the ship, but after the firefighters approached the fire-ridden cruiser, one began to explode ammunition. As a result of the explosion of shells, one of the fire vessels was damaged, after which a fire also broke out on board. читайте подробнее на сайте "Диалог.UA": www.dialog.ua...

www.dialog.ua...


They have a translate option…on mobile at least.

a reply to: PassiveSeeker


There are 'rumors' that the ship sank while carrying multiple nuclear warheads.

Only rumors.

But it wouldn't surprise me, the ship was outfitted for nuclear cruise missiles, ballistic missiles, and torpedoes.

If so, another good reason for the rest of the russian fleet to suddenly run far away.

a reply to: putnam6

This one is pretty cut and dry, the Russians sailed a poorly defended ship too close to the Ukrainian shoreline.

They got cocky, let their guard down, and got a face full of a pretty ordinary missile that we know for a fact the the Ukrainians have. This is pretty embarrassing for the Russians, but it's actually far more plausible than what we know happened to the Cole.

a reply to: PatriotGames4u

IT was a 40 year old ship that had been retrofitted to strike down fighters from a distance. The let it get too close to the shoreline without a suitable escort.

There's a reason that US ships tend to stay hundred of miles outside of warzones.

This is why the USN isn't going to go to war over Taiwan any time soon. China has about a million times better anti-shipping capabilities.

originally posted by: scraedtosleep
It feels a little to convenient that the russian military is this weak.

My theory is that putin has some wmd's stashed away that no knows about. A type we might have never seen.

What do you think about that?

No, they're a mess. Antiquated materiale and poorly trained personnel. This is what rampant kleptocracy and corruption get you.

a reply to: PassiveSeeker


The Russian Navy never studied the Royal Navy's experiences and roles in the Falklands War from the limited information available. In short, the Argentinean Air Force's employment of Exocet anti-shipping missiles and the threat posed to warships by fire are vital points.

Also, the impact of SS Atlantic Conveyor loss on the land component of the campaign is noteworthy.

Please forgive me for not addressing these matters properly. They fall beyond the scope of the topic.

a reply to: AaarghZombies


Close.

It was retrofitted for a whole lot more than just shooting down fighters, every piece of tech that russia has been bragging about was on this ship.

Most of it isn't on any other russian ship.

The russian navy does things a little different, it's this ship that 'escorts' and protects the rest of the fleet.




Your assumptions regarding the amount of distance and the reasons for keeping that distance are off, but you are correct that we don't unnecessarily put our fleet in the middle of the action like russia does.

Mostly because we have the air power necessary to keep the ships safely at a distance.

Chinese anti shipping capabilities aren't a real concern for us, except in the case of a Pearl Harbor type surprise attack or unexpectedly getting caught in a war zone.

a reply to: PatriotGames4u

We don't yet know if the Russian Air Force provided Moskva with air cover or not, so that might serve as another historical lesson the Russians skipped over. Nor is the presence of Russian Navy frigates or their capabilities and roles known. But if elements of the crew were evacuated, that would suggest the presence of friendly naval vessels in the area and within the range of Russian naval helicopters.

a reply to: putnam6

My newest model:

Some more info.

a reply to: PatriotGames4u

Russians supposedly sailed the MOSKVA on the same course in and out of the combat zone

By using a predictable pattern gave the Ukes a way to plot their attack

a reply to: MisguidedAngel

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: scraedtosleep
It feels a little to convenient that the russian military is this weak.

My theory is that putin has some wmd's stashed away that no knows about. A type we might have never seen.

What do you think about that?

No, they're a mess. Antiquated materiale and poorly trained personnel. This is what rampant kleptocracy and corruption get you.

True it's all true, and America and NATO have spent how many trillions of dollars to stop Russia? when it seems just some drones, a Neptun Missile battery, and a chit-ton of Javelins are working rather nicely.

side note now ask yourself how many countries have the same antiqued equipment and incompetent personnel. Not only are we likely overspending drastically but spending on stuff we don't need. Hell, it seems the Taliban in Afghanistan now have a better-equipped military than Russia.

All NATO countries MIC just got a huge increase, tell me there aren't gonna be countries paying top dollar for Javelins and Neptun missiles, drones etc. On top of Russia just killed thier own future arms sales.

a reply to: putnam6

I don't disagree with much of what you said. War is the biggest business out there.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus
a reply to: putnam6

I don't disagree with much of what you said. War is the biggest business out there.

"War is A Racket" Smedley Butler USMC

apnews.com...

and now we get the obvious response from Russia...Russia's war tactics since forever

of course, our politicians and the MIC won't take advantage of this situation fr financial gains, would they?

Forbes War stock surge after Russian Invasion, Northrup up 20%

Russia loses warship, says attacks on Kyiv will increase

KYIV, Ukraine (AP) — Russia’s Defense Ministry promised Friday to ramp up missile attacks on the Ukrainian capital in response to Ukraine’s alleged aggression on Russian territory, an ominous warning that followed Moscow’s stinging symbolic loss of its navy’s flagship in the Black Sea.

The threat of intensified attacks on Kyiv came after Russian authorities accused Ukraine of wounding seven people and damaging about 100 residential buildings with airstrikes on Bryansk, a region bordering Ukraine. Authorities in another border region of Russia also reported Ukrainian shelling Thursday.

“The number and the scale of missile attacks on objects in Kyiv will be ramped up in response to the Kyiv nationalist regime committing any terrorist attacks or diversions on the Russian territory,” Russian Defense Ministry spokesman Igor Konashenkov said.