The skeptics catch 22 when it comes to U.F.O.'s

a reply to: neoholographic

We may have a difference in terminology here. Unless you can draw a definitive conclusion from it, it isn't evidence. It is a data point. I've never said that you are wrong, I just said that there isn't enough there to convince me.

Personally I believe in the ancient astronauts theory. I believe that the Earth was settled by our ancestors who were from somewhere else. Genesis in the Bible describes terraforming a planet to a T. So what if the dinosaurs were not killed by a meteor, but were killed to make room for them. What if Atlantis was the center of their settlement? What if there was another group that they were fleeing or at war with and they hit the earth with Kinetic Weapons? Then the devastation lowered our level of technology to what could be sustained. Now that same group is keeping an eye on us are we are regaining some technology waiting until we pose a threat to them.

I have no evidence to prove this. I have some data points though. The Pyramids, both in Egypt and South America. I've seen the gold statue that was fount in Inca ruins that shows a figure in a helmet with what looks suspiciously like an A-4 Skyhawk jet. Then you have the crystal skulls that only now we have the technology to make. I can go on and on, but, I have no evidence, no proof. All I have is a theory.

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

Where's your evidence?

This is just hyperbole. Let's look at the facts:

Sumerian astrology tablets make up the first historical record of astrology. The Sumerians gave the world astrology. They are literally the oldest astrological documents. They named many of the constellations and defined the nature of numerous bodies in the solar system.

The Sumerians taught the Babylonians astrology. Ptolemy and others then learned from the Babylonians. And we learned from them. The Sumerians were not only advanced in astrology, but in all other aspects of culture as well. They produced great literature, their laws were as benign as British common law (C. Leonard Wolley, The Sumerians, New York: W.W. Norton, 1965, Pages 90-122), and their mathematics were only improved upon by the brilliant Greeks.

www.historicalastrology.com...

Here's more:

Sumer (/ˈsuːmər/)[note 1] is the earliest known civilization in the historical region of southern Mesopotamia (now southern Iraq), emerging during the Chalcolithic and early Bronze Ages between the sixth and fifth millennium BC. It is also one of the first civilizations in the world, along with Ancient Egypt, Norte Chico, Minoan civilization, Ancient China, Mesoamerica and the Indus Valley. Living along the valleys of the Tigris and Euphrates, Sumerian farmers grew an abundance of grain and other crops, the surplus from which enabled them to form urban settlements. Prehistoric proto-writing dates back before 3000 BC. The earliest texts come from the cities of Uruk and Jemdet Nasr, and date to between c. 3500 and c. 3000 BC.[1]

The most important archaeological discoveries in Sumer are a large number of clay tablets written in cuneiform script. Sumerian writing is considered to be a great milestone in the development of humanity's ability to not only create historical records but also in creating pieces of literature, both in the form of poetic epics and stories as well as prayers and laws. Although pictures—that is, hieroglyphs—were used first, cuneiform and then ideograms (where symbols were made to represent ideas) soon followed. Triangular or wedge-shaped reeds were used to write on moist clay. and law in Mesopotamia long after Semitic speakers had become dominant. A large body of hundreds of thousands of texts in the Sumerian language have survived, such as personal and business letters, receipts, lexical lists, laws, hymns, prayers, stories, and daily records. Full libraries of clay tablets have been found. Monumental inscriptions and texts on different objects, like statues or bricks, are also very common. Many texts survive in multiple copies because they were repeatedly transcribed by scribes in training. Sumerian continued to be the language of religion.

en.wikipedia.org...

WHERE DID THIS KNOWLEDGE COME FROM?

How did we go from this:




To this:





Each civilization up to America can trace the influence of past civilizations that preceded it. Where are the preceding civililizations before the Sumerians where the knowledge to build and create all of these things came from?

They say it came from beings from the sky. Science doesn't give us any evidence of civilizations prior to them that allowed them to evolve this knowledge?

Why would they say it came from beings from the sky? Why not say we were influenced by the _______ civilization and built upon this knowledge like the Romans with the Greeks or the Babylonians with the Sumerians or America with England?

a reply to: neoholographic

Where is my evidence that humans are not stupid?

Let's leave it there.

How ironic.

Kev

originally posted by: JIMC5499
a reply to: neoholographic

We may have a difference in terminology here. Unless you can draw a definitive conclusion from it, it isn't evidence. It is a data point. I've never said that you are wrong, I just said that there isn't enough there to convince me.

Personally I believe in the ancient astronauts theory. I believe that the Earth was settled by our ancestors who were from somewhere else. Genesis in the Bible describes terraforming a planet to a T. So what if the dinosaurs were not killed by a meteor, but were killed to make room for them. What if Atlantis was the center of their settlement? What if there was another group that they were fleeing or at war with and they hit the earth with Kinetic Weapons? Then the devastation lowered our level of technology to what could be sustained. Now that same group is keeping an eye on us are we are regaining some technology waiting until we pose a threat to them.

I have no evidence to prove this. I have some data points though. The Pyramids, both in Egypt and South America. I've seen the gold statue that was fount in Inca ruins that shows a figure in a helmet with what looks suspiciously like an A-4 Skyhawk jet. Then you have the crystal skulls that only now we have the technology to make. I can go on and on, but, I have no evidence, no proof. All I have is a theory.

You're playing a game of semantics now. Data points is evidence. When a Lawyer goes to trial, they have different data points as EVIDENCE. One data point may be DNA evidence and another data point is eyewitness testimony. The Jury uses the evidence to reach a conclusion.

On ATS, we're debating evidence. You may some the evidence is weak while others might say it's strong.

Why can't you simply say that you have reached a different conclusion based on the evidence and you don't think it's strong enough to reach the same conclusion?

This is just basic common sense but pseudoskeptics have to go beyonf basic common sense and say there isn't any evidence. Again I ask:

If there isn't any evidence then what am I and others on ATS basing our conclusions on?

originally posted by: neoholographic
If there isn't any evidence then what am I and others on ATS basing our conclusions on?

A bunch of data points, because you cannot provide a definitive answer.

A gun in a murder trial can be tied to a bullet found in the victim.
A fingerprint found on the gun can tie the gun to a specific person.
A drop of blood found on the gun can give DNA to tie the gun to a specific person.

That's evidence. It points to a defined conclusion. What you have at best is circumstantial evidence, at worst conjecture. You have nothing that comes to a defined conclusion.

a reply to: JIMC5499

Again, you're trying to make it up as you go to avoid calling it evidence. You may think it's weak evidence but it's evidence. Why can't you just say something so obvious?

A defined conclusion?

That has nothing to do with evidence.

I can say we have evidence a wave/particle duality from the double slit experiment but it doesn't point to a definite conclusion. There's a million different interpretations of the EVIDENCE!

So evidence doesn't need to have a defined conclusion. You're just making it up! If evidence had to have a defined conclusion then there would be no evidence of anything. Most of these things are built upon hypotheses and intuition.

When Pilots give their account of what they saw and experienced and it's supported by radar evidence that's EVIDENCE!

You may refute it or reach a different conclusion based on the evidence but it's EVIDENCE!

The fact that you can't simply admit it's evidence illustrates my point!

a reply to: neoholographic

I fully expected the skipping over the very basics of ET and right to aliens being here so try to prove he's not, nonsense. Void of any deep thought into the subject because it fits into the believer surface thinking. We can't even get out of the gate to prove the existence of intelligent ET life elsewhere but he's said to be here. The first hurdle that has to be overcome and it hasn't. But that's the thought process of the type.

The standards of evidence should at least be held to the same as a new species of bird, fish, insect, mammal etc. on Earth. Stories are not evidence of ET. Should we forgo any physical evidence of these physical claims abductions, crashes, etc for the fantasy that they're here? I don't subscribe to that way of thinking.

Facts over fantasy.

There are numerous legitimate UFO incidents where prosaic explanations don’t wash. Big flaps and little flaps. The numerous triangle ufo incidents for instance as in Belgium, Missouri and NY state, and many others...

On the other hand, there certainly are less reliable incidents recorded, exaggerations, lies, distortions, etc.

That’s the nature of the human experience and there’s no solution to belief versus disbelief until scientific certainty arrives.

UFO Expert Chris Mellon: Based On What We Know About UAP's, Aliens Are The BEST Explanation

Feb. 5, 2022

a reply to: Ectoplasm8

Did you not see my radar capture?

originally posted by: peaceinoutz
There are numerous legitimate UFO incidents where prosaic explanations don’t wash. Big flaps and little flaps. The numerous triangle ufo incidents for instance as in Belgium, Missouri and NY state, and many others...

On the other hand, there certainly are less reliable incidents recorded, exaggerations, lies, distortions, etc.

That’s the nature of the human experience and there’s no solution to belief versus disbelief until scientific certainty arrives.

I agree but what's scientific certainty?

We're still debating if time is an illusion.



My point is, there isn't any explanation outside of extraterrestrial/extradimensional visitation that explains the accumulation of evidence. We have been visited by U.F.O.'s since humans could draw on cave walls.

So I reach a conclusion based on the evidence that the most likely explanation to explain the accumulation of evidence is extraterrestrial/extradimensional visitation.

If we were to assume extraterrestrial/extradimensional visitation has occurred, there wouldn't be any U.F.O.'s It's the only explanation that explains all of the evidence.

Another axiomatic point is the fact we all literally do believe in UFOs (or will concede the possibility) since certainly there are objects objectively viewed as what the word actually means: unidentified seen by anyone at any time potentially...

The REAL question is do we believe in ETs/alien/ufos or not.

originally posted by: Erno86

UFO Expert Chris Mellon: Based On What We Know About UAP's, Aliens Are The Best Explanation

Feb. 5, 2022

Exactly my point!

a reply to: neoholographic

Seems like you the one who need’s affirmation.


I could care less what you think about my opinion there is no credible and conclusive evidence extraterrestrial life made the long journey to visit the earth in 1950’s visualization of space craft.

The believer’s catch 22. People outside the government will also blatantly lie for fame and / or fortune.

a reply to: neoholographic

You

So I reach a conclusion based on the evidence that the most likely explanation to explain the accumulation of evidence is extraterrestrial/extradimensional visitation.

Invite them to dinner at your place. Keep us posted when and how the reply.

a reply to: neoholographic

Then you get the type's of people...who will not admit that a possible ET alien civilization is far superior (technological wise) to themselves (U.S. Air Force???). And you'll also get the type's of people, who will downplay or demonize the possibility of ET sentient life visiting our planet, because it might affect people's own religious thoughts about Gaod.

a reply to: neoholographic

Did you believe in “rods” back in the day….

News On 6 Investigates The Phenomenon Of RODS

www.newson6.com...

Wanting to prove his point, Zimmerman shot a series of photographs at different exposure times around a porch light, capturing what appears to be objects similar to RODS, but actually turned out to be moths. Like other camera experts, Zimmerman said cameras are capable of producing artifacts, something in the picture that wasn't actually there.

If modern educated people can be confused, imagine how ancient people could be confused by one snake oil salesmen…..

a reply to: neoholographic

Isn't Chris Mellon the guy who confused a mylar party balloon for some of
the best UFO evidence as part of a power point slide, while asking
people to invest in TTSA?

a reply to: neutronflux
I bought a cheap zoom lens in Singapore a long time ago. I kept getting discs on my pictures that weren't there. A Chief Photographers Mate adjusted the lens and they went away.

a reply to: JIMC5499

I guess rods exist…. With sarcastic glee…

“We don't know what they're doing here. We don't know how long they've been here,” he said. “We have rock carvings that appear to show RODS on cave drawings from 50,000 years ago.”

www.newson6.com...

There are photos to cave drawings….

The staple of any well documented phenomenon.

(Still doesn’t mean they are anything other than everyday normal earthly objects witnessed in unusual circumstances.)