A question about immunity for ATS

a reply to: ZeussusZ

Sorry, I got nothin'.

BUT...I was trying to figure out from the thread title why ATS would need to be granted immunity, and from whom/what?

a reply to: TrollMagnet

So you get life long immunity after recovering from covid.
But if you take the vaccine then you don't have lifetime immunity, hence the need for boosters.

So.....
Does the vaccine wipe out natural immunity?

originally posted by: chr0naut
a reply to: ZeussusZ

It is 'natural' immunity to the virus that begins to reduce after 3-7 months. Because 'natural' immunity is neither perfect, nor forever (and it never was, for any disease, that is why they are still diseases).

Virus and disease are not interchangeable, nor do we have the ability to generate natural immunity for all diseases. Natural immunity being perfect and forever would not prevent disease from existing, so it's certainly not the reason diseases still exist.

COVID is going to become endemic. A seasonally spiking endemic disease most likely. When you have natural immunity it fades, but with an endemic pathogen you're likely to be exposed and receive the benefit of your immune response thus staying naturally immune. On the other hand, if you take a vaccine that has no long term studies with a gene altering component, who the hell knows if your immune response will react properly in 5 years.

A few of us tried to tell you. Boosters for life. Get it tattooed on your arm. Bewstaz4lyfe, that's your new crew.

originally posted by: ZeussusZ
Hello, I have a question that I can't seem to find a answer so I'll ask here.
If a person catches covid19 and recovers they have natural immunity. Then the person gets the vaccine for covid as advised by the authority's. 4 to 6 months later a booster shot is needed because antibodies/spike protein/ protection/ whatever is gone.
Does this mean the vaccine has taken away the natural immunity?

It might be that the vaccines can take away natural immunity.

It is a FALSE statement to say that natural immunity to SARS Covid vanishes after 6 months. There is no researched evidence to support that statement. It is something that Big Pharma made up because they wanted the naturally immune to get their vaccine, when the naturally immune don't need the vaccine.

From the SARS Covid outbreak in China in 2002, people infected in 2002 had immunity to SARS Covid-19 in 2019-2020. It is from a person who recovered in 2002 from the original SARS, that monoclonal antibodies were made to fight off Covid-19 some 18 years later. In other words, the memory t-cells from those who recovered from SARS 2002, gave them immunity to SARS Covid-19.

So, the long term research indicates that through memory t-cells, a person has antibodies to SARS-Covid for at least 18 years and more. So NO, you do not lose immunity after 6 months like the vax-pushers claim.

In all of these individuals, we found CD4 and CD8 T cells that recognized multiple regions of the N protein. Next, we showed that patients (n = 23) who recovered from SARS (the disease associated with SARS-CoV infection) possess long-lasting memory T cells that are reactive to the N protein of SARS-CoV 17 years after the outbreak of SARS in 2003; these T cells displayed robust cross-reactivity to the N protein of SARS-CoV-2.

SARS-CoV-2-specific T cell immunity in cases of COVID-19 and SARS, and uninfected controls

However, even though those who recovered from SARS in 2002 had immunity to SARS 2 (Covid-19), there are now so many variants of Covid-19, that each immune person has to build immunity to each new variant and the new mutations of those variants.

So if you acquired natural immunity to Alpha Covid, then if exposed to Delta Covid your body releases antibodies to Alpha strain. But since Delta has new mutations, your immune system has to buld immunity to the new mutations.

Then once you build immunity to Delta, and if you are exposed to a Delta Plus strain, your body releases antibodies to Delta and still has to build immunity to all of the mutations of Delta Plus.

And THEN, if you are exposed to Omicron, your immune system releases antibodies to Alpha, Delta and Delta Plus....BUT...there are over 50 mutations in Omicron. So your immune system has to build immunity to the other 50 plus mutations.

And THEN, once you have immunity to Omicron (BA.1), then you still have to get exposed to Stealth Omicron (BA.2) and Omicron (BA.3). The mutations in Omicron BA.2 and Omicron BA.3 are different enough from Omicron BA.1, that your body would have to build additional immunity to those 2 strains as well.

Omicron seems to mutate much faster than the original virus. So its best to keep building immunity to each little mutation BECAUSE if you don't, then you might end up having to start all over building immunity let's say if Omicron acquires 100 new mutations in the next year and a half.

So building immunity to Covid and all its variants is an ongoing process. BUT once you have antibodies to each variant, your memory t-cells will still remember what antibodies to release in 17 years or more.

As for the vaccines. Immunity wanes every 3 months requiring boosters. Even if you get a booster, YOU CAN STILL CATCH Delta and Omicron.

But what is unclear is if the vaccines cause natural immunity to wane as well. I think they do. Because clearly the vaccines interfere with memory t-cells.

The way a vaccine should work is that it should help your body build immunity. And your memory t-cells should kick in when exposed to any variant of Covid. Therefore, you shouldn't need boosters if the vaccine was working.

The fact that someone vaccinated can catch Delta, get sick, then 4 months later they have to get boosted because they no longer have immunity to the Delta strain they previously had, that means the vaccines are somehow interferring with memory t-cells.

a reply to: MapMistress

Thank you.
So there is evidence to natural immunity lasting 17 years, to the alpha strain.
But maybe not delta or omicorm because of mutations.

"But what is unclear is if the vaccines cause natural immunity to wane as well" seems to be a question no one's bothered to ask

a reply to: MapMistress

"As for the vaccines. Immunity wanes every 3 months requiring boosters. Even if you get a booster, YOU CAN STILL CATCH Delta and Omicron. "

Here in New Zealand we use the pfizer cominarty vaccine.
You do not get immunity from the vaccine. You can catch it and still transmit it to others, but some of your symptoms may be less severe.

i don't know but it seems small pox devolved to chicken pox then it lays dormant in the body until it sparks up as shingles later. sometimes decades,

there is a vax for that called shingret sp. that is recommended for the over 50 crowd.

so i guess a virus can be in you but dormant so what natural immunity has to do with it, not sure.


i'm sure someone knows and would lie about it.

Antibodies from the bubonic plague can still be found in people even today, natural immunity is normal, untested unnatural immunity from a drug has the potential to be catastrophic.

a reply to: MapMistress

That is because they are counting on us being ignorant of how our bodies work.

Our bodies don't usually produce antibodies if they are not needed. The antibodies will eventually decrease and fade away.

Our bodies keep on guard. When the virus returns, the body recognizes it, and it produces the virus killing antibodies again, for as long as they are needed.

The presence of antibodies means the body had been exposed, and is working as it was designed. It does not mean a person is sick.

The lack of antibodies does not mean your body is not protected. The body does not usually generate antibodies it does not need.

Antibody testing only tells you if you have been exposed. Not much more.

originally posted by: TrollMagnet

originally posted by: chr0naut
a reply to: ZeussusZ

The vaccines promote 'natural' immunity creating antibodies to the spike protein, which is the most immunogenic feature of the virus.

For example, the biggest immune response to the 'natural' virus, is to the spike protein which presents itself on the very most outer parts of the virus. It is the most obvious part of the virus for out immune system to detect. It is also the best target for a vaccine, that is why EVERY vaccine company has based their vaccines on the spike protein.

It is 'natural' immunity to the virus that begins to reduce after 3-7 months. Because 'natural' immunity is neither perfect, nor forever (and it never was, for any disease, that is why they are still diseases).

The same reduction goes for vaccinated immunity.

This is also why some people get COVID-19 more than once (even some people here on ATS have had the virus more than once, and some of those ATS members have also been rather strident about never getting the vaccine, despite being living proof that natural immunity hasn't protected them).

You are incorrect. There are multiple proteins that make up the membrane, not just one. The vax has one flavor of the spike, the one they thought was the biggest problem. As that protein they used to create the mRNA has changed on the membrane, there is no longer much of what was originally being targeted left to be recognized right away. Your body also only creates one type of antibody to that spike.

However when you actually catch COVID, you are exposed to the complete natural membrane as opposed to one protein, as well as the RNA inside that is the virus itself. Once your body encounter that full package it develops multiple types of antibodies. Those multiple types being involved are what trigger lifelong immunity. Natural immunity is the gold standard. Whatever you have been believing, start fact checking it with medical literature from before 2020. None of what I just said is controversial.

But if you want to start talking about how the spike protein in the vax itself is inflammatory, or why the vax is a horrible idea, I can go there too. Like how it is delivered with lipids encapsulating it which prefer heart, brain, and reproductive parts of women as a place to create viro cells. Compare that to if you actually catch COVID, it will primarily live in your respiratory system, not whatever your bloodstream hits.

Also, if someone has natural immunity, then catches it again, then the strain they caught is heavily mutated, and taking anything designed for the 1st generation to fight those strains is a dumb idea.

Glad I read all the responses before posting, because you beat me to this one

ALL the body will recognise from the jabs is the one spike protein

Natural immunity will always be far superior as it creates complete immunity so the body will recognise the 'main' virus even with some mutations

There was so much wrong in that comment it made my head hurt!

To OP, look into the Danish study that shows negative efficacy after a few months of the jab; so not only are you as likely to catch it as the unjabbed, you are more so - which tends to suggest it is having a detrimental effect on the immune system in general - which I would imagine would wreck any natural immunity alongside

It's absolutely unnecessary to get a jab if you've already had covid, and could well be dangerous as well

originally posted by: 1947boomer

originally posted by: ZeussusZ
Hello, I have a question that I can't seem to find a answer so I'll ask here.
If a person catches covid19 and recovers they have natural immunity. Then the person gets the vaccine for covid as advised by the authority's. 4 to 6 months later a booster shot is needed because antibodies/spike protein/ protection/ whatever is gone.
Does this mean the vaccine has taken away the natural immunity?

No. Natural immunity (as measured by the concentration of antibodies in your body) peaks a few weeks after you recover from COVID19 and then slowly and steadily declines over the next months. That happens whether or not you have been vaccinated. The half life of the decay rate is a little over two months.

www.news-medical.net...

The same thing happens if you get vaccinated and don’t have COVID19, but the rate of decline is different. The half life seems to be a little shorter:

www.news-medical.net...

If you have had COVID19 and you get vaccinated, your immunity will will be reset to a higher level but still decay over time. Neither natural immunity nor vaccination immunity lasts forever—either individually or in combination.

Must be a super slow decline. I had covid last November 2020 and I still have good antibodies. I get tested monthly by my wife and her friend (both NPs) who opened a Covid-19 recovery clinic.

originally posted by: WraithOfEva777

originally posted by: TrollMagnet

originally posted by: chr0naut
a reply to: ZeussusZ

The vaccines promote 'natural' immunity creating antibodies to the spike protein, which is the most immunogenic feature of the virus.

For example, the biggest immune response to the 'natural' virus, is to the spike protein which presents itself on the very most outer parts of the virus. It is the most obvious part of the virus for out immune system to detect. It is also the best target for a vaccine, that is why EVERY vaccine company has based their vaccines on the spike protein.

It is 'natural' immunity to the virus that begins to reduce after 3-7 months. Because 'natural' immunity is neither perfect, nor forever (and it never was, for any disease, that is why they are still diseases).

The same reduction goes for vaccinated immunity.

This is also why some people get COVID-19 more than once (even some people here on ATS have had the virus more than once, and some of those ATS members have also been rather strident about never getting the vaccine, despite being living proof that natural immunity hasn't protected them).

You are incorrect. There are multiple proteins that make up the membrane, not just one. The vax has one flavor of the spike, the one they thought was the biggest problem. As that protein they used to create the mRNA has changed on the membrane, there is no longer much of what was originally being targeted left to be recognized right away. Your body also only creates one type of antibody to that spike.

However when you actually catch COVID, you are exposed to the complete natural membrane as opposed to one protein, as well as the RNA inside that is the virus itself. Once your body encounter that full package it develops multiple types of antibodies. Those multiple types being involved are what trigger lifelong immunity. Natural immunity is the gold standard. Whatever you have been believing, start fact checking it with medical literature from before 2020. None of what I just said is controversial.

But if you want to start talking about how the spike protein in the vax itself is inflammatory, or why the vax is a horrible idea, I can go there too. Like how it is delivered with lipids encapsulating it which prefer heart, brain, and reproductive parts of women as a place to create viro cells. Compare that to if you actually catch COVID, it will primarily live in your respiratory system, not whatever your bloodstream hits.

Also, if someone has natural immunity, then catches it again, then the strain they caught is heavily mutated, and taking anything designed for the 1st generation to fight those strains is a dumb idea.

Glad I read all the responses before posting, because you beat me to this one

ALL the body will recognise from the jabs is the one spike protein

Natural immunity will always be far superior as it creates complete immunity so the body will recognise the 'main' virus even with some mutations

There was so much wrong in that comment it made my head hurt!

To OP, look into the Danish study that shows negative efficacy after a few months of the jab; so not only are you as likely to catch it as the unjabbed, you are more so - which tends to suggest it is having a detrimental effect on the immune system in general - which I would imagine would wreck any natural immunity alongside

It's absolutely unnecessary to get a jab if you've already had covid, and could well be dangerous as well

When anyone goes as far as they have gone, to twist the truth, obfuscate, hide, and withhold, information to the people, nothing good can be behind it, or come out of it.

I think most people all over the world know this and their gut is screaming to them to "Run!".

But their sensibilities can't allow them to believe that their governments could possibly be evil enough to harm so many of them. Maybe some stranger in a strange land, but never them.

They have not kept track of the history of our planet. Almost everyone can tell you about the barbarian sacrifices made by the reigning establishments in the past .

The Mayan slaughters and sacrifices, biblical slaughters and sacrifices, "Let them eat cake", but they can't deal with the possibility that they are just as expendable today, as the plebs have been in every century past.

We are not special. We are not great. We our a necessary inconvenience, expendable, and ripe for the picking.

As it was so succinctly said in another post, "Nobody has ever complied their way out of totalitarianism". They have never complied their way out of slavery, or any other controlling or dictatorial system of government.

Another old saying comes to mind here. "None are so blind as those that will not see".

A better one. "My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge".

Without human natural immunity system, all vaccine are worthless !

originally posted by: FinalWarrior
Without human natural immunity system, all vaccine are worthless !

Not to go off topic but your comment reminded me of my encounter with Verizon.

I cancelled my service with them because their service does not work in my area. I live in the woods and I can't get their signal.

They sent me a signal booster as a fix. It didn't work. I was surprised that they even thought it would.

For signal booster to work, you first have to have a signal. No signal. Nothing to boost. In the end, even with a technological advantage. No signal, no service.

No immune system. Nothing to boost. Makes them dismissing, or ignoring the importance of our natural immune system, seem a bit disingenuous. Or they just are painting the picture they want us to see.

a reply to: ZeussusZ

I would not believe much CDC, FDA, NIAID and all the rest say.

It is foolish to believe the pronouncements of known liars.

originally posted by: Smigg
Antibodies from the bubonic plague can still be found in people even today, natural immunity is normal, untested unnatural immunity from a drug has the potential to be catastrophic.

The natural immunity to the bubonic plague is due to the CCR5-Delta32 gene mutation not antibodies.
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

This is because anyone with the CCR5-Delta32 gene survived and passed the gene on to later generations.
Those without the gene died and did not pass the gene.
Now those with the gene do not get HIV.
also, bubonic plague was a bacterial disease and HIV is a virus.

likely there are people out there that can not get covid because of genetics.

originally posted by: musicismagic
But I do believe for one to stay healthy, a good balance diet is very important at this time.

No. What is important to stay healthy is to have a species appropriate diet. For humans, this precludes plant foods.

originally posted by: tanstaafl

originally posted by: musicismagic
But I do believe for one to stay healthy, a good balance diet is very important at this time.

No. What is important to stay healthy is to have a species appropriate diet. For humans, this precludes plant foods.

I agree with a lot of what you say, but I would include that we should also eat regionally appropriated. Some studies have shown that people that eat honey produced by bees in their own local areas, have less allergy symptoms.

I believe that exotic foods may take some of the boredom out of our meals, but I think a diet of foods local to the area where you live, provide us better health benefits. All things in their region and in their season.

If the Powers that be, that tells us what is what, didn't change the definitions of Natural Immunity and Vaccine, Then I would believe them more than I do now. As it stands now, They are all LIARS!