Alec Baldwin SHOOTING

originally posted by: dollukka
But Trump has been his main targed for years.. so there is possibility of foul play in this accident.

How exactly can you make the leap from a disdain for trump, to being a possibility of foul play in this accident?


SMFH

originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

Do we have evidence there even was a bullet yet?

I still believe it may have been shrapnel.

TheRedneck

If that's true brother, then "armorers" need to learn to clean their firearms before each use, as it would be exceedingly rare for a piece of the casing to shatter causing it to become the projectile.

a reply to: Shoujikina

This statement is disturbing for more reasons than one.

Your statement certainly is.

First, it is physically impossible to fire "unreal dead ammunition." If the ammunition is not live, it cannot fire. That's the definition.

I have no idea what you are talking about with the "artificial person" crap. What is "artificial" about a living human being? Do you think the woman who was shot dead was some sort of mannequin?

"Real live ammunition" is exactly what it sounds like: a casing that holds a primer, gunpowder, and a bullet intended to be expelled at high velocity from the weapon, This is opposed to a blank, which is a casing with a primer and gunpowder, but no bullet (sometimes it has wadding instead of a bullet; sometimes the casing is simply crimped), A dummy round is a casing with a plug instead of a primer, no gunpowder, and a bullet. A dummy round is not "live" and cannot fire because all of the explosive material is missing.

The whole thread is about the difference between these. Apparently, movie sets use the term "live ammunition" to refer to blanks, which do not contain a bullet. They also seem to try and call a real firearm a "prop gun" when something like this happens, even though a prop gun is physically incapable of firing anything.

The correct term for a weapon designed to fire a bullet using exploding gases is a "firearm." "Gun" is a colloquial term.

And finally, you must have led a very sheltered life. I haven't. I have placed the barrel of a .357 Magnum against a man's temple with the words, "get out." At that moment, I was indeed ready and about to perforate his head. He got out, thankfully. Had I not done so, he had full intentions of either mugging me or worse. If you want to call me a "MURDERER" for protecting myself, go right ahead. It only shows how out of touch with reality you are.

About as out of touch with reality as the idiots on this movie set. Reality found them. I hope it finds you in a much more friendly manner, but make no mistake: reality will someday find you, too.

TheRedneck

" I wonder what it feels like to kill an innocent person"
Alec Baldwin 2017



Well now you know, mr. Irresponsible, unsafe, sarcastic fool.

originally posted by: InsultsAreEasier

Shrapnel does go through a person, killing them, and then critically injuring the person behind them.

Sure it does.

originally posted by: InsultsAreEasier
Its funny, well not in this instance, but generally people that are for gun control are the ones who know the least about it.

Well, i have multiple firearms, 13 of my 20 years in the service as LRD, can dismantle an M4 delta ring and all, receiver, swap stocks and barrels, make my own ammo....yet, i fully support firearm training and NCIC checks on background as well as yearly CCW renewal leases.

In MY opinion, only idiots hand over deadly force to anyone who thinks they should "have it".

Right to bear arms, is not equal to the right to be a psychopath and go on a rampage because your wife didnt dry off the spatula properly.

a reply to: alphabetaone

It is actually quite common for a casing in a blank to break apart. That's why I will not load blanks. The casings are not designed to be bent to the extent they have to be bent in order to seal the casing without a bullet, and it is very easy to weaken the casings to the point they will shatter along the crimped section. One is controlling an explosion with extremely high pressure for an extremely short time; people who load blanks for industrial use know their science (and art, really) quite well. Still, blank rounds fail.

Only established professionals need to load blanks, and even when loaded by professionals, blanks should always be considered "live" and capable of harming a target.

Of course, it appears the killing round in this case was not a blank as I have been theorizing... the truth is much, much worse. Apparently it was a fully operational .45 Colt round that someone snuck onto the set which killed Hutchins. The actors were literally playing Russian Roulette with loaded guns, due to an absolute and complete lack of any safety considerations whatsoever.

TheRedneck

originally posted by: Shoujikina
Also, you can't 'point at a person' per se, because a person is the same as 'artificial person', and is already dead. It's legal fiction, a corporation, something that only exists in the legal system, on paper and in computers.

Is this that 'freeman on the land' stupidity? How about I flat blast their strawman instead? Does that work for you or will it set off the OCD as well?

originally posted by: TheRedneck


It is actually quite common for a casing in a blank to break apart. That's why I will not load blanks.

I stand corrected, what i think i meant is for ME it is exceedingly rare, but like you i rarely find that i actually want to load "blanks".

originally posted by: TheRedneck
Only established professionals need to load blanks, and even when loaded by professionals, blanks should always be considered "live" and capable of harming a target.

Absolutely.

originally posted by: TheRedneck
Of course, it appears the killing round in this case was not a blank as I have been theorizing... the truth is much, much worse. Apparently it was a fully operational .45 Colt round that someone snuck onto the set which killed Hutchins. The actors were literally playing Russian Roulette with loaded guns, due to an absolute and complete lack of any safety considerations whatsoever.

TheRedneck

Sigh. This is sad in so many ways.

I go to a range, we need flags, bells, all kinds of safety considerations before even touching a trigger. If only the movie set.....

a reply to: alphabetaone

I stand corrected, what i think i meant is for ME it is exceedingly rare, but like you i rarely find that i actually want to load "blanks".

No problem, my friend. I doubt you go around firing blanks at people either. A casing fragment can be very small, so it is likely you have had some "failures" and simply never noticed.

If for some reason I went insane and decided to load blanks for someone, I wouldn't let them out until I had tweaked the load and crimping to the nth degree and safely performed a few hundred test fires without incident into something like a piece of paper at maybe 2 feet. Even then, I would caution people about trusting them. I trust blanks about as much as I trust exploding rounds... won't load them, either.

I go to a range, we need flags, bells, all kinds of safety considerations before even touching a trigger. If only the movie set.....

I know.

I practice at home. I live where two small mountain ridges come together in a hollow, so there is ground in front of me in two directions, and no homes beyond my line of sight (I own the mountainside in both directions). So I have little need for a commercial shooting range, although I have been to a few and know what you speak of. Still, even at home, I am not a bit shy about yanking a gun away from someone who is being unsafe and not giving it back until they prove they can be safe with it.

I enjoy my guns; I need my guns out here. I consider them fine things. But I also know how deadly they can be, and understand that they cannot make a decision to stop by themselves should I do something unsafe. The true mark of an adult is understanding that, in anything one does. My chainsaw can literally cut my head off; my table saw can remove a hand or arm; a nail gun can be as deadly as a firearm. Even a car can kill indiscriminately. Adults can operate such tools safely; children (both chronologically but also mentally) cannot.

I do think your ideas on licensing are a bit extreme and prone to abuse.

TheRedneck

originally posted by: TheRedneck

I do think your ideas on licensing are a bit extreme and prone to abuse.

TheRedneck

So do i. The problem is, when you dont know who the bad (or irresponsible) guy is, I would rather not take chances on CCW in the hands of the aforementioned child-adults that can instantly take the life of someone i care about.

Fundamentally though, i believe if someone has the money to buy something, they should be allowed to buy something. It's really really tough to strike a balance on this topic for me.

a reply to: alphabetaone

I believe (and this incident has solidified that belief) that the real reason we have these child-adults in the first place is a lack of education. It is patently obvious to me that the people handling the firearms on this set were completely clueless about firearm safety, whereas it was drilled into my head from before I was big enough to hold a gun.

I know many parents who are literally scared of guns. You know their children will grow up with no idea what a gun is, how it works, or how to handle it safely. In some of the more progressive areas of the country, we have likely had a few generations of such by now.

I am reminded of a target practice session I had with a group of friends one day back in my youth. One of my friends was a serious gun collector; he came over to visit for the weekend, and brought this little briefcase containing three of his most prized weapons in foam; one was an actual German-made Walther PPK .380, the actual gun used in the James Bond movies. Sweetest shooting little thing I have ever had the pleasure of firing; what kick it had was perfectly balanced. Then he had his duffel bag... a real, full-size Army duffel bag full to the brim with every caliber and kind of firearm you can imagine.

We did some serious target practice that weekend.

Anyway, there was this one guy who came over... I'll call him "Bobby"... who had never been around guns before. His parents were scared of guns and never would let one be in their home. After he moved out, he had never thought about getting a gun. But he wanted to shoot with us, and we all tried to teach him how to shoot. Well, at first anyway. At one point I was actually getting worried because he would flinch so hard firing the gun, he was lucky to get within 5 degrees of the target!

He finally got to the PPK. He gripped it, and suddenly I heard someone say "Bobby, STOP!" Too late. The gun went off, with him holding too far up the handle. The slide came back and neatly sheared a nice little gash between his thumb and fingers.

We got the bleeding stopped and got him to a hospital for stitches; he was OK except for the pain. But the shooting fun was over, and he never wanted to come back for more.

If his parents had let someone teach him about firearms, that would not have happened; it was such a rookie mistake no one thought to check if he knew how to hold the gun. He never had the chance to learn, and that eventually caused him an injury (thankfully a minor one) and that injury probably caused him to be as scared of guns as his parents. His children likely never knew how to handle a firearm either. And the cycle continues...

TheRedneck

a reply to: alphabetaone

Think of it like learning to drive.

No one is particularly afraid of cars, but they are big, fast, and terribly dangerous when you think about. I think about my morning commutes and liken them to human horror movie frogger in the worst way, but strangely you seldom hear about deaths from it. Sure, there are occasionally traffic accidents resulting in deaths around here, but they usually happen late at night with drink involved.

Why?

Most everyone learns how to drive and we practice constantly. No one is afraid of cars except for the very few who are still learning.

But in their own way, cars and trucks are every bit as lethal in potential as firearms.

a reply to: ketsuko

...and it seems that, on this movie set anyway, people were trying to pilot a fully-loaded semi through downtown Laredo, Texas when they hadn't learned how to operate a tricycle yet.

To use your (very good) analogy...

TheRedneck

Some smalltalk about "involuntary manslaughter" for Baldwin !!!🔍🦇🔎

Our private outdoor gun range has sustained two recent firearm related injuries: Based on shooters extending their index finger (on their gun support hand) too far on their short barreled rifles (SBR) and/or AR15 pistols, so that their index finger covers the vents of the muzzle break --- Resulting in the tips of one of their index fingers being sheared off.

originally posted by: xuenchen
Some smalltalk about "involuntary manslaughter" for Baldwin !!!🔍🦇🔎

Imho --- Not gonna happen...

a reply to: xuenchen

Involuntary manslaughter would be the most he could legitimately be found guilty of. I do not believe he intended to kill anyone. This was a case of extreme negligence at best, nothing malicious.

TheRedneck

This person is. no wonder there have been complaints on lack of safety.

twitter.com...

a reply to: andy06shake

a reply to: 20Eyes1974

If she responsible, i will say.

She don't look old enough to buy alcohol never mind be in charge of loading firearms.

That might just be me being from the UK and/or possibly a bit ageist all the same.

I guess its not what she knew, but who she knew, that landed her that job.

a reply to: sciencelol

Seriously man, an innocent woman lost her life due to this incident and her family has been ruined. But sure, just keep laughing it up.