Where Do We (the World) Go From Here?

we go mad.

originally posted by: chris_stibrany
a reply to: Serdgiam

Not to mention any great change requires people to band together and not be afraid to fight the system, even in nonviolent behavioural ways. And people are largely being stopped from banding together....

In person interactions have certainly been made more difficult. With information control, the same thing can (and is) happening with communication technology too. Just make sure everyone gathers around the bonfires the Ministry of Information kindles, et voila!

We still see some things that flirt with a new type of interaction though. Most recently gamestop.. While that could easily be exploited and weaponized, the core event is encouraging.

Personally, I believe the "best" solutions are ones that enable everyone to achieve independence in the areas that are most commonly used for leverage. Even if all this stuff (*waves arms around wildly*) wasnt happening, I still think there are approaches that are extraordinarily valuable to adopt. Many of which would be best implemented over time, but can be deployed rapidly should personal participation outside of the Monolithic Narrative become a "thing."

a reply to: Serdgiam

Very well said, I’m in full agreement with both your posts on this thread. Curious about what your getting at in the last paragraph though.

I still think there are approaches that are extraordinarily valuable to adopt. Many of which would be best implemented over time, but can be deployed rapidly should personal participation outside of the Monolithic Narrative become a "thing."

Care to embellish on that?

a reply to: surfer_soul

I think that pretty much everything happens rapidly at this point.

At its core, I believe its something of a fight over how we will "tame" or "direct" the chaotic potential of humanity. Historically, taming is the way we go.. Where the true potential of our civilization is capped and turned into a controlled flow that benefits those at the top the most.

However, we live in a time where many, many things are near instant like information or product purchases. So, to truly tame this.. it requires rather extreme measures (the technocratic Monolith).

Alternatively, we can achieve a baseline level of autonomy/self-sufficiency in a short time frame for under $5k. Combining the rapidity of information and product purchases, this could happen in a week or two worldwide.

This path of decentralization opens a lot of doors. "Everyone" essentially has the tools to bring their ideas to life without as much concern over basic needs.

If we were to then shape the movement of information to take this into account, everything from technological progress to art would increase dramatically. The end result of this paradigm would yield a civilization that progresses staggeringly fast, for better or worse. The results of which benefit those "at the top" just as much as everyone else. Even if it does mean removing those points of leverage and control.

ETA: I believe the Monolith is making a massive mistake even if solely examining the situation through the lens of greed and personal benefit. Maybe its out of habit, maybe hubris, maybe malice.. But either way, they benefit less from the paradigm they are attempting to establish too.. at least compared to what else is possible. In internet parlance, they are a bunch of boomers trying to remain relevant to the detriment of everyone, including themselves.

a reply to: Serdgiam

What I see happening is agenda 21/30 being gradually implemented. AI is at a level that it will displace many jobs, more than people realise. The cabal see over population as a major problem, especially considering the advances in medicine and prolonging life. There are already to many “useless eaters” and that number can only grow if trends continue.
The great reset as far as I understand stand it is about bringing in a resource based economy ran by a technocracy. Everything will be digital and tracked, and resources allocated in real time by a central AI.

Alternatively, we can achieve a baseline level of autonomy/self-sufficiency in a short time frame for under $5k. Combining the rapidity of information and product purchases, this could happen in a week or two worldwide.

I don’t know what you mean by the above statement, how would it be possible to be self sufficient for under 5k? I think of that as running a small holding providing for your own needs.

a reply to: surfer_soul

Oh, its absolutely Agenda 21/30.

I dont believe AI is at particularly feasible level yet, but highly advanced automation most certainly is and I consider it a substantially larger threat. AI has sentience.. The technocrats do not want that sort of thing, its too much trouble when they can have all the automated benefits without any of the.. silicon opinion.

I think they market overpopulation as an issue, but they dont believe it is actually the case. It just works for their agenda of resource control as well as a smaller population being easier to control. If they actually move towards depopulation, I would expect it to be through sterilization and not anything too immediate or obvious.

Now.. note that I said baseline self-sufficiency. So, for now, it wouldnt be Star Trek Replicator level stuff. But;

3D Printer/CNC combo machine
-Both use the same code, so this is simply a matter of interchangeable heads with some interface design
Solar/wind/hydro
-Never was "green" or to "save money." Its biggest strength is granular autonomy.
Aquaponics
-About 100 sqft per person yields 1lb of protein a day plus crops (which could include medicines)

All achievable for under $5k, particularly if we approach it with building a new paradigm in mind.

Essentially, we take ultra-lightweight automation and use it in-home instead of solely in centralized centers of authority. No external networks are a given.

There are some issues that would arise, like ease of use and accessibility, but those can be handled in real time if folks actually realize that some of these concepts are applicable outside of corporate interests. As it stands, most seem to only think this stuff is for massive corporate-political deployment and then think in terms of currency. As mentioned in Silent Weapons for Quiet Wars, this disconnect between real world "things" vs currency is highly exploitable.

a reply to: Serdgiam

Thanks for the replies.

I’m not sure about AI developing sentience, even though it can teach itself it’s still going off an initial program to learn a particular thing. Anyway that’s another topic.

As far as 3d printers I can imagine them being very useful but are they able to print from a variety of materials other than plastic? I will have to look into it again, I looked into aquaponics some years ago and that does look very promising, I doubt most people could get a handle on it though.

I agree sterilisation would be the most likely way to cull the masses, it’s probably already happening in fact according to Dr Yeadon the vaccine also attacks the placenta..male fertility has been dropping for number of years now anyway.

The population is sustainable and could keep growing, while our impact on the climate is minimal we are certainly going through resources and creating a huge amount of waste. If pure greed didn’t drive everything though this could be resolved.
It seems to me the cabal and TPTB see a world of pristine nature and high tech side by side, and also if there was some natural disaster the majority of the population would die off anyway. We live in a ‘just in time’ society for our basic needs, people would go hungry quickly should that be disrupted.

It seems to me the best thing to do would be to get out of the city/town and go work on a farm that produces a diverse range of produce and have a store of things you can’t make for yourself.

a reply to: surfer_soul

Well.. For my personal metrics: If it aint sentient, it aint AI Our neurology is essentially just a self-repeating, (mostly) self-adjusting algorithm, so sentience emerging from code is a lot more feasible than many realize.

Somewhat of a different discussion, but its going to become a major issue alongside many of these other things. Particularly since it would almost inevitably emerge in some strange cocoon of exploitation, weaponization, and isolation.

3d printers can indeed print more than plastics! Metal, in particular, is right on the cusp of viability outside of huge corporate interests. We have concrete printers too, and even conductive filament that can print circuits directly into larger items. I also mentioned CNC, which is an important facet that would use the same machine..

To be clear though, we are talking a baseline here. An expandable, scalable, upgradeable framework in every home. More advanced stuff will simply be adopted into this framework. It could be argued the more important aspect is the paradigm shift itself rather than the hard goods.

Aquaponics, like any food production, can indeed take some skill. At least to set up.. (then its mostly self-sustaining outside of planting/harvesting). But here we also must consider the impact of using ultralightweight automation to drive & monitor the system.

Such automation is at the core of pretty much every path in our future. Yet, we only really consider it in terms of massive corporations rather than what it can do at the decentralized, individual level.

The biggest issue with even achieving a baseline of decentralization is, as you state, whether or not people could get a handle on it. That is easily solvable though, through clever design, automation, and intuitive interfaces. Im not just talking philosophically here either; Thats my life's work and I briefly talk about it here.

Part of this paradigm shift would be about truly comprehending the speed at which technology changes now. So, what might be a problem here and now.. might not be just months later. A decentralized system takes this rate of progress substantially further. But, rather than being seen as some "endgame," it would be better perceived as a framework that can actually support rapid change & removes points of leverage that have historically been used to exploit people.

Notably, as a scalable system, it can be as granular as every individual having their own MacGuffin of Autonomy.. But its probably more effective to approach it initially in larger nodes (i.e. neighborhoods or collections of a dozen or two houses).

Where the Monolith and I agree is the concept of high tech living in harmony with nature. We just disagree strongly on how that will be achieved.. but their Narrative control is strong enough that that concept of harmony is almost exclusively viewed through corporate implementation.

My youngest son just bought 30 acres out in the country and is going to build a house there. He, his wife and their 3 kids will be neighbors to several families of relatives who raise livestock and garden. I am greatly relieved they will be moving out to where self-sufficiency is the norm. The subject being where to go from here that is my suggestion. Start window gardening if that's all you have. Whatever you can do to provide for yourself is a step in the right direction.

Where is it all going ?

my answer is 'we' are heading for a world order whch mirrors that of the book/story titled The Time Machine of H G Wells fame


to aid the reader here's a visual: www.bing.com... M=VIRE

the video summary is under 3 minutes long

a reply to: Serdgiam

Reading your post made me think of Robert David Steele and the open source project which I'm sure you are familiar with. Others however may not be www.goodreads.com...

You said a great many important things in your post but all seem to imply a change is needed in how we think and approach problems. Open Source can be a great tool kit for humanity to build a new future based on needs and wants rather than a top-down, corporately-imposed vision of the future to be marketed to you. A revolution in self-sufficiency is what can give us a better future, certainly not what the Bill Gates and Klaus Schwabs of the world have in mind for us.

I feel both a bit late for the party on this and in terms of learning any skills that could add to it but I feel intuitively that it is the direction to go that can best benefit all. The thought that former congresswoman Cynthia McKinney is on board with it gives me hope. She is one of the fearless breed of leaders we need to make substantive change that can bypass the traditional powers-that-be. So long as profit is their sole motive humanity will not be making progress.

a reply to: chris_stibrany

Where do we go from here?

That question has been asked by many since the beginning of recorded history.

And yet we flounder and stumble on.

It seems we're a tough, sonovabitch species to eradicate...

I actually wasnt aware of it! I tend to insulate my own thinking and ideas from others in this vein, because I think that the conversation should be as diverse as possible. Kind of a strange perspective in a world where so many are obsessed with almighty Sources other than themselves.

An odd form of rebellion, to be sure.

originally posted by: Asktheanimals
a reply to: Serdgiam

certainly not what the Bill Gates and Klaus Schwabs of the world have in mind for us.

Seriously though.. I think these folks are so removed from everything and so stuck on their own hubris, that they dont see they are also creating a worse world for themselves. Yet they smugly march on, based in obsolete paradigms.

I think they exemplify the importance of a Free Information Culture though. Typically, we give centralized groups a monopoly on certain things for a variety of reasons, with one being that we expect them to be more responsible with that power in some form or another. Clearly it doesnt work out, even with explicit restrictions as laid out by things like the US founding documents. Howeber, with those documents as a conceptual foundation, as well as our stage of advancement, we can move from state autonomy (yet still united under a single banner & premise) to individual autonomy (yet still united under a single banner & premise).

I think one of the things we still havent come to terms with, is how quickly everything changes now.. from information & news stories to technology & electronics. Not only is that going to get worse, the only mainstream framework that attempts to tame this does so under outdated premises & exploitation. I personally believe it to be a much, much worse situation than many realize.

Covid is a great analogy too; we pretty much had that sorted within weeks to months. Yet, in order to exploit, a massive campaign was waged that made things worse for pretty much everyone. While cultural royalty does enjoy a bit of insulation from larger changes, the downstream detrimental effects will impact them just as much as anyone. Maybe even more in some respects.

I think that building these foundations for the future is imperative.. Because we arent really talking about it and just kinda go along with the corporate-political plan (albeit begrudgingly for some).

In my mind, the foundational premise is one thing.. Your knowledge and perspective is another. So, maybe in such situations, the best course is for others to build the framework and then for you to adopt it and utilize it. I know that for me, I chose very specific aspects (power, energy, manufacturing, and totally re-imagined home design), but there is so much more. We each do what we can, and hope that the framework we have built as a civilization will bear fruit in the most efficient and effective way possible. We have an immense amount of new factors to consider now though.

Outside of all that, I think its just kind of cool that we are at a stage where decentralization and self-sufficiency doesnt equate to isolation.

When it comes down to it, I believe that we are looking at a shift that will dwarf the Neolithic Revolution. Yet, the only ones really "prepared" for it are going to screw it all up for everyone, including themselves, in order to grasp tightly onto historical concepts of centralized power and control.

a reply to: Serdgiam

Well.. For my personal metrics: If it aint sentient, it aint AI Our neurology is essentially just a self-repeating, (mostly) self-adjusting algorithm, so sentience emerging from code is a lot more feasible than many realize.

I’ll just briefly address this before moving on. Is consciousness an algorithm? Does free will come about from a program, do we even have free will? On one hand we have an instinctive sub conscience that regulates the physical processes such as hormone production, the heart rate etc... this is very much like a biological version of the machines we make and the programs/algorithms that run them.
Our conscious mind the “l” we identify as the ‘sentient’ part of us has little or nothing to do with these processes and for good reason. On the other hand we have a super conscious mind, it is responsible for genius, inspiration and most probably our latent psi abilities too.

Anyway I read your thread on your idea for a ‘Living Vehicle’ you linked to and I love the concept. In the coming times it could be like a hippy version of Mad Max
Have you considered doing a go fund me or some such to raise money for the project?
If it can be done for 75k that seems a very reasonable amount relatively speaking to have a proof of concept.

It seems to be many of the ideas could be adapted or utilised in existing off grid motor homes/camper vans to some degree or other perhaps in which case there is a healthy market for and potential side business.

a reply to: surfer_soul

Those are some big questions, eh?

First, Ill preface this by saying I hold some beliefs that are probably most closely related to Shinto. I believe that any sufficiently complex system can gain some form of awareness/sentience, though some biochemical systems seem to be more prone to this emergence. Instead of being caused by kami, I believe it arises from the formation of a conduit (of sorts) between ordered reality and the field of chaos. We glimpse the "surface tension" of this field of chaos with quantum mechanics, though it might be more accurate to call quantum glimpses a look at the field of possibilities. Meaning, one step closer to ordered reality than the field of chaos. Theres a lot more to my beliefs, but it starts to go too far off topic. And, I doubt anyone is interested in the religion of some whimsical denizen of the internet

Regardless of all that, is "sentience" exclusive to humanity even as a general colloquialism? I dont believe it is, so any questions about free will, subconcious process, "super conscious," would apply to the topic as a whole rather than humans exclusively.

I also view "math" to be representative of processes rather than being the processes themselves. So, while humans may not be controlled directly by algorithms, as such, the processes can still be represented by math.

"Is consciousness an algorithm?" Doubtful, but it can be represented by one. And, if that representative mathematic concept is close enough to the emergence of sentience in humans.. We could build systems where the same thing(s) can emerge.

TL;DR: Math, or algorithms, arent "things" in and of themselves. They represent "things." One of those "things" are the form in which something like sentience manifests in ordered reality. Even if we are technically working backwards in a sense, we can (and will imo) create a system that is indistinguishable from a human when it comes to behavior. For better or worse, I might add. A bit of a spicy take is that Im not convinced all humans are sentient.. its consistent with my beliefs though

As for the LV, its a dead project as far as Im concerned. Because of my health, I am unable to construct an actual building on my own and no one is willing to help. The original plan was to initially focus on the automation which would then build the LVs, but I needed help with that too and never got it. Money was never the main concern. C'est la vie. Sometimes years and years of work just doesnt pan out, but we dont write Stories about that because we dont like to think about it.

Notably though, the final cost of the product to the customer was $75k. It costs considerably less to make. The LV was intended to be a technology showcase, of sorts. All of the tech contained within it is not only adaptable to traditional off-grid living.. But was also designed to be easily retrofitted into any existing structure. The LV itself could be used as a typical RV, or as building blocks for a larger, permanent structure. The blueprints for the framing yield a lot of flexibility with little difference in effort from the standard design.

ETA: I figured I should add that my current plan/agenda is basically to get enough homes to adopt the aspects of self-sufficiency that are readily available and relatively low cost. Then, Ill start releasing the full extent of my work and I suspect it would inspire others in similar positions to do the same thing. Im fully prepared to take it with me to the grave though. Without enough nodes to support the "weight," there will be collapse which results in little more than fortifying the position of corporate-political interests. Instead, Ive shifted gears to more artistic endeavors which work towards the same end (fiction writing and artwork).