What is your advice on supply shortages during this pandemic?

a reply to: muzzleflash

I totally respect your attitude. Most people thou are so reliant on the current economical system, that even persevering foods etc, is out of the skill set and something without allot of trauma would be something they would not want to try to learn and do. Ushering these people into nature per se’ to survive and live lol. I would imagine droves of suicides would occur on a daily basis. Yet if our ancestors didn’t do it, we would not have this luxury to discuss it. Talk about a conundrum.

There are a couple of things regarding where I live and what I have that are helpful. My home has a large fireplace. I live in Wisconsin, where the winters can be pretty harsh. The cold is the thing most would have problems with. I also live near two lakes, literally within walking distance. While I hope it would never come to it, if I had to get water from one of the lakes and boil it in my fireplace, I would have water and I would have warmth. People cannot survive too long without either of those things in the northern latitudes.

I could also melt snow in the winter for water. I probably would switch to mainly a vegetarian diet, as I don’t see myself finding wild game shooting and dressing it. Different strokes for different folks. I don’t have the room in my home to store a lot of food and stuff. I also have nice neighbors I could barter with for goods. I hope it would never come to any of that. But if one wants to survive, one must do whatever they can.

a reply to: wasobservingquietly

Where I am, TP is slowly coming back. But there is still a limit of one pack per customer. Paper towels are harder to find than TP. Go figure! Now canning supplies have become impossible to find! Jars & lids. Sold out everywhere! They are selling on eBay for four times what the regular price was!

These things must be regional. TP has been plentiful for a couple months. Paper towels was in short supply in April. Canning stuff still available.

I think I need to go out and buy a dozen disposable masks or some cloth masks for the wife and I. We have about four disposables left, just cheap ones because using a mask is required here in stores. I think it is a good idea to wear masks in stores, especially when there are a lot of people caughing and sneezing everywhere, I think society has turned into a viral and bacterial mating ground these days, nobody was staying home for a few years when they were sick, they took time off of work then went to the stores and restaurants. Especially bad was black Friday, lots of people got sick after that.

We are pretty stocked up on everything, the only thing we would need to go to the store for in the winter is milk and we would need to go once every two weeks to get eggs from the people we get eggs from. I think we could also boost up our toilet paper and paper towels stocks a bit. But only maybe another twenty four rolls of TP and twelve more rolls of PT.

Buy more!

a reply to: Uphill

Ok, let's be honest. Besides self defense items, do you think food and or everyday supplies are going to be cheaper in 2-3 months? If not, stockpile those items now while they are cheap.


The election is coming up in a few short weeks.

Leftest are going to go crazy. They may go total ballistic and cause major disruptions which includes supply chain disruptions.

MoveOn, left-wing groups gear up for 'mass public unrest' after Election Day

www.foxnews.com...

The group, comprised of more than 50 groups, including MoveOn, Color of Change and the American Federation of Teachers, calls itself the Fight Back Table and recently launched their Democracy Defense Nerve Center.

According to the Daily Beast, members of the group held a Zoom call last week in which they discussed how they can plan for Election Day and then coordinate large-scale civil disobedience and what one participant called "mass public unrest" if – as they predict – President Trump and his supporters contest November's election results.

My advice, spend about $100 or so bucks and get six 50 pound bags of rice. Then buy canned food that you can dump over the rice. Soup, Beef Stew, etc.

Buy a few bags of flour and sugar as well. Dry goods and canned goods can be had cheap currently. Get them.

a reply to: Uphill

Honestly here in SE Michigan, it's still pretty weird. Most if not all stores still have no bleach based cleaning products (409, etc) or Lysol spray or sanitizing wipes. Paper products are back in good supply. This is across all chains, DG, WM, Meijer, Busch's.

I don't know if it's just some oddity in the Ann Arbor area but the meat products suck until you get to the regional stores like Busch's. WM, Meijer this past week, no frozen fish, low stock on frozen potatoes, NO pork products at all, low chicken stock.

The chains tell us they're closing at night now so they can restock the shelves. Apparently, the mandella effect has struck the dictionary because restock now means "we stand around and don't stock" unless this is a real supply shortage.

When we lived naturally and from the land, what was the world population?

100's of millions at most.

We now number almost 8 billion and most live in cities.

Only those living in the middle of nowhere would be able to do this.

Can you imagine the carnage as millions hit the countryside from the cities looking for food?

a reply to: JAGStorm

It may be regional, but there are signs on the shelves blaming some things on the ‘aluminum shortage’? I could kick myself for not getting some extra canning supplies when they first put them out! Maybe more people are getting serious about canning this year too? It’s really sad with everyone’s vegetables ready to harvest now too. People on Facebook have gone to other states & Amish stores looking for lids. They even bought the jars with lids when they only needed the lids!

Supposedly the soda/pop flavor shortage is aluminum based too. They are only making the most popular flavors for now. But if there is an aluminum shortage what about other canned goods? Will it hit there eventually too?
I am going to get enough pet food ahead to feel safe. Canned & dry! And anything that comes only from overseas. Coffee & hubby’s canned corned beef. I will probably get stew, chili, Spam, canned chicken & tuna again too. That’s what we got when the virus first hit the fan & we were glad to have it! There were times that I just didn’t feel like cooking & with rice, bread or crackers it was a quick & easy meal.

Some people who can’t get canning supplies are going the freezing route. But we have power outages every so often during snowstorms. Not too bad if it would be cold enough to put everything outside. My cousin & I for years have been using ‘nature’s freezer’ when there was a big meat sale! Especially if we were buying for big family get togethers at Thanksgiving or Christmas. I kept frozen stuff in the cooler on the back porch. She did until an animal got into it. Now she keeps it in the car trunk until she has to use the car! Older people ingenuity! 🙄

Hand sanitizer, wipes, spray & masks are still hard to find. The dollar stores have been the best source so far. It’s been spotty other places, but really expensive now.

WOQ

originally posted by: muzzleflash

originally posted by: NightFlight
Most everything is available here in SC, but damned ammunition is scarce and pricey. Got no idea why...

It's very doable to manufacture your own ammunition if it was absolutely necessary.

In the event you need a ton of ammo, don't worry you'll come across plenty of stashes as you scavenge or battle or whatever.

Where one sees problems it's better for you to try and see opportunities and solutions.

Have you tried to find primers lately???

LOL!

It seems that many talk about this in two ways:

Creating a buffer that relies on stability and normal societal functioning to be re-established within a relatively short time frame (a year or two max), or

A return to pre-Neolithic Revolution lifestyles

Both have massive issues. The former requires rather extensive planning, large storage, doesnt do anything if the crisis lasts longer than planned, and isnt sustainable in any way. The latter becomes a lifestyle of meticulously preventing small issues from snowballing into nightmare scenarios (can happen fast..), significantly larger land areas than is feasible for the population at large, and is even less sustainable than the former scenario.

Technology changes the discussion dramatically, however, it is rarely included beyond either full rejection of tech or as temporary, emergency solutions.

I believe the best method is to establish "something" that isnt just for crises, but can be exceptionally useful regardless. Its why I harp on and on about the topics I talk about.. If every "node" is self-sufficient, it essentially becomes impossible for any destabilization to occur. If it can be done in a way that actually enables creation, invention, and innovation beyond the current paradigm (which I believe the stuff I talk about would), then all the better.

So, as usual, that would be my suggestion. Aquaponics, alternative energy, and decentralized manufacturing. All more accessible and affordable than ever. Just dont get caught in the narrative trap that they are "green." A lot of aspects might be, but that is absolutely not its selling point regardless of the manufactured Narrative.

a reply to: Uphill

Other than toilet paper, paper towels, tissues, bleach and brands like Lysol being virtually MIA for a while, stores' stock of those seems to have mostly recovered. Dishwashing liquid (for washing by hand, not for dishwashers) has been oddly scarce here & there, but hell if I know why.


Edit: Oh, I do know one food item that is in VERY short supply here -- rice! It's harder than hell to find everywhere, so when it suddenly popped up at our Aldi in the 2lb bags, we bough 2 bags to set aside.

a reply to: Nyiah I also only wash dishes by hand -- the dishwasher machines always seem to leave a detectable unpleasant residue, and with a small family, it's not a big deal for me to wash dishes manually. In some of the macrobiotic cookbooks I have, they always advise doing kitchen cleanup as you go, in between meal preparation moments, to prevent huge stacks of dirty things that could pile up. Our local Los Angeles county independent food co-op store (Coopportunity) had acres of empty shelves from March thru May, then things returned to normal, including dishwashing liquid for washing dishes by hand. I've been buying Seventh Generation dishwash liquid there in recent months because it's a clear unscented liquid. But they have a few different kinds.

In the USA, it seems to matter a lot what the supply chain is for the stores one shops at. Most of the natural food stores use the wholesaler UNFI, which nowadays manages to get ahold of just about everything that they used to stock. UNFI has its issues as well, but that is a subject for another day.

At Coopportunity stores, starting in April, they had hand-written notes stuck on each shelf pleading for shoppers to only buy what they *need*. Ever since I saw those notes, when I need to buy several of any one item, and there isn't a whole lot on the shelf to begin with, I only buy about half of what they have, to leave some for others in need that day.

Oh, regarding rice: The longtime macrobiotic supplier Eden Foods has a website that is now almost complete restocked in everything. Being macrobiotic, they sell many different kinds and volumes of rice. Because they are online, they do have a shipping charge, but keep them in mind. All their rice varieties are organically grown. Look also in their bulk foods section for larger packages of rice ... they occasionally have a reduced price on some of their bulk items, such as grains, beans, many flours, etc.

My storage strategy for larger quantities of dry goods is one-liter and some 1/2 liter glass storage jars with lock-down lids ... that way it's impossible for any ants or other critters to invade those containers, except maybe a bear. Currently, the manufacturer of the best quality of those sizes of glass storage jars is Fido, located in Italy. Lehman's non-electric catalog online has some Fido jars. Be careful, the glass storage jars I have seen in chain stores in the last 10 years are more inexpensive glass jars, made in China, but they are way too flimsy.

a reply to: Blaine91555 Regarding hand sanitizer, the REI Co-op online sells 2-ounce bottles of Dr. Bronner's organic hand sanitizer, I think for $6.00 per bottle, which is about the going price it was last year. Two different scents, peppermint and lavender; so far, they do not make an unscented hand sanitizer.

Just be very careful with some of those no-name hand sanitizers, some have turned out to be contaminated.

On the question of population consequences of a disconnected power supply/fuel, estimates from When Technology Fails and some other sources say that in a major solar flare that creates widespread damage of the North American electricity grid, the consequence of a 2-year lack of electric power would be a population loss of 75%. And due to changes in the US commercial gasoline supply which originated with the US military some years ago, commercial gasoline can no longer be stored for more than 1-2 months without going bad. So yeah.

a reply to: Uphill Everyone, having a master's degree in public health and some decades of work in the US health care field, from what recommendations I have read so far from epidemiologists, I recommend the disposable paper surgical masks for COVID-19 protection over anyone's cloth masks. I did order a "neck gaiter" from REI Co-op online to place over the disposable mask, since those paper surgical masks have a small gap on each side of the face. The neck gaiter I ordered is made of 95% polyester and 5% elastene; a useful property of thin fabric made mostly of polyester is that if you rub it about 20 times on a plastic bag, it acquires a static electricity charge that has the effect of blocking air particles.

Note: Per the US science writer Laurie Garrett, it's OK to re-use those paper masks until they can no longer be breathed through ... just leave them in a sunny indoor spot for 5 days or so to decontaminate them, and then use them in rotation. Per US Dr. Tom Frieden, former CDC Director, the reason that paper surgical masks protect effectively against COVID-19 is that even tho the virus is smaller than the mask holes, the virus always travels on larger particles that are much larger than the mask holes; that's why those masks work to protect against COVID-19.

Yeah, I get some looks from passersby during the esssential shopping I do when I wear that getup, especially since I combine it with rock-climbing sunglasses that fit very flush to the face, but I figure they're mostly thinking, "Why didn't *I* think of that?" Anyway, because my family is older, we have to do everything we can to minimize our COVID-19 risks.

a reply to: mikell Across much of the USA, too true, lumber prices have shot up, at least for awhile, since so many people started to do home remodeling during lockdown, or since then. Lumber retailers do not expect to get completely restocked on lumber products until late in 2020. Up by our NorCal cabin, the lumber sellers have more stock, but that region is hardwood country to begin with, although redwood is actually softwood.

a reply to: wasobservingquietly On canning supplies you mentioned, Lehmans non-electric online catalog has canning supplies.

A somewhat related item that has also been out of stock for awhile is sprouting seeds. But now that we are approaching fall, the online sellers (Sproutman and all) should be restocked. The thing that I find very interesting about sprouting seeds is that they are some of the most potent natural foods for strengthening the human immune system, a good thing to be aware of during a viral pandemic.

a reply to: billxam On bleach-type products like 409, etc., you may have to drive to the suburbs of a larger city in your region to get a decent selection of cleaning products. During this summer, the family-owned grocery store chains always seem to have the best selection of cleaning products, because the family-owned grocers are more careful about their supply chains.

The family-owned grocers are also far more likely to have a reasonable one-time limit on quantity buying. That way, items like paper towels and flour are not always totally sold out.

a reply to: Fools I totally hear you on the drinking water. Living in earthquake country, we always have some of what I call "dollar water" on hand, which is mountain spring water where the vendor website provides a state-certified analytical laboratory report of exactly what that water contains.

When the Berkey website restocks its water filter machines this year, our family will buy one of those. Many people do not realize that Berkey is UN-certified water filtration that the UN uses when its forces, missions, and other groups are stationed out in the field. They are the real deal; not cheap, but as good as filters can get. (For fundamental mathematical reasons, no water filter will ever be able to remove 100% of all contaminants.)

a reply to: Uphill I just started reading the new US non-fiction book Rage, written by US journalist and author Bob Woodward. Since it was just published 2 days ago, most people in the US may not yet realize how much new information on the COVID-19 pandemic is in that new book. In the photo section in the middle of that book, CDC Director Redfield (who is also a virologist) said privately to others, "I think we all understood now we were in a race. We're in a marathon. We're in a two-year, three-year race. Not a one-year, not a six-month race."

(copyright Simon&Schuster; NY,NY; 2020; Rage, by Bob Woodward pp. 330+ [photo section])

With regard to this ATS thread, my question for you all is, how much effect on consumer buying patterns will this "duration" quote have?

In addition, ABC World News Tonight just announced a few minutes ago that some cleaning products like Pine-Sol were just now added to the EPA list of approved pandemic disinfectants: abcnews.go.com...