Change My Mind

I want to pitch an idea to whomever feels up for it. The basic premise is once every day or so, or whenever it strikes my fancy, I share an opinion. It may or may not be a personal opinion, but an opinion none-the-less.

This exercise shouldn't be construed as a debate. It's an informality. As such, I ask that this remain friendly, and if I feel that someone is losing control of their emotions I will promptly ignore them, and ask that others do the same.

And example would be if someone makes a comment and a portion of it or all of it contains all capital type, and/or if it's punctuated by multiple exclamation points or interrobangs.

Any off topic comments or attempts to obfuscate the current topic will be reported and I ask that others report it as well.

I'm sure I will bring up many opinions that many will feel very passionately about both for and against. If you feel that you can't calmly discuss the current topic, please refrain from doing so. If you do wish to participate, re-read what you typed out before you post.

Again, this is not a call for debate. Therefore, while it is acceptable to provide sources that back up a statement you make, it is not necessary to do so. This will be an experiment of highly opinionated civil discussion.

Also, if you are a subject matter expert and/or if you work in a field related to the current topic that will be acknowledged if you can provide personal experience without personal/identifiable information. For obvious reason.

The process will go as such:

I will make an opinionated statement with or without supporting information. I may or may not believe this opinion to be true to any degree. (This applies to both positive and negative statements.)

If you wish to participate your job is to "change my mind." You are to attempt to change my mind whether or not you agree with the statement. You are not arguing amongst each other. As such you may find yourselves supporting those of us whom you normally wouldn't. Your focus is entirely on exhausting my attempts to defend the current opinion.

Also, please note that my schedule may not necesssrily align to everyone else's schedule. I will be active mostly at night. So, I ask that you exercise patience and wait for my response. This is a good opportunity to make solid statements and not rushed zingers or "gotchas." Think of it this way – you basically have all day to put something together to try and change my mind. Then, the next day you'll see my response, which will give you another entire day unless my mind has been changed.

But be warned, I won't give up easily. I will defend an opinion until I cannot do so any longer. At that point I will concede that my mind has been changed.

Opinion:

The American prison system is not that bad.

originally posted by: AutomateThis1
The basic premise is once every day or so, or whenever it strikes my fancy, I share an opinion.

Will this interrupt the normal flow of how ATS already works?

originally posted by: AutomateThis1
Opinion:

The American prison system is not that bad.

I can agree its not that bad . But i would say it can be even better ! Its not strict enough ! ITs a 1 star resort for criminals. Its a training ground for hate and organization . People go in and come out bigger criminals . We need to seperate them , not be nice , not be fluffy and actually make prison a place that isn't 1 star . But -5 star !

originally posted by: AutomateThis1
Opinion:

The American prison system is not that bad.

The prison system costs roughly 30,000 per person a year for mostly non violent offenders. We lock away the most people per capita in the world.

It's a welfare state. We have been picking up people for pot, locking them up to the tune of about the average salary a year, but just to exist. Then they come out and can't get hired because of a "felony".

It's a horribly wasteful use of tax dollars, so naturally I disagree.

But that's just my opinion, and I doubt it (the system) will change, and it is what it is.

a reply to: AutomateThis1

I like your idea.
A couple wrinkles to suggest:

1) NO links to outside sources or info.

2) Opinion offered should be one in which you actually believe.

a reply to: AutomateThis1

Hi AT1.

Suppose it may be pertinent to ask, at this point : if your opinion has ever changed, yet, about something you have posted an opinion on, here on ATS ?

Would you describe yourself as open-minded ?

a reply to: AutomateThis1

Was your second post meant to be your first?

You're not doing a very good job of changing my mind so far.

originally posted by: IAMTAT
a reply to: AutomateThis1

I like your idea.
A couple wrinkles to suggest:

1) NO links to outside sources or info.

2) Opinion offered should be one in which you actually believe.

I love the exercise as he has it! Why should he actually believe his stated opinion? If people
follow the rules he has set forth, it could actually be really good for a lot of folks- to have to maybe support something from the other side from which they normally argue. There is no way to verify what he actually believes anyway. I’m excited to watch this.

originally posted by: AutomateThis1
Opinion:

The American prison system is not that bad.

Most criminals released from prison, whether after having served their full sentence or not, come out in worse shape, mentally and morally, than when they went in. To survive in most prisons, prisoners have to continue to commit crimes while there, if they want to have any hope of a tolerable stay. They come out even more used to and hardened to crime than before they went in. Recidivism rates speak for the poor quality of the American prison system.

originally posted by: CriticalStinker

originally posted by: AutomateThis1
Opinion:

The American prison system is not that bad.

The prison system costs roughly 30,000 per person a year for mostly non violent offenders. We lock away the most people per capita in the world.

It's a welfare state. We have been picking up people for pot, locking them up to the tune of about the average salary a year, but just to exist. Then they come out and can't get hired because of a "felony".

It's a horribly wasteful use of tax dollars, so naturally I disagree.

But that's just my opinion, and I doubt it will change, and it is what it is.

I'm not sure we can factually say that the US locks up the most people per capita.

There are many prisons around the world where people are thrown in jail without any paperwork. There is no processing system. No fingerprints, no mugshots, nothing to identify that a person is currently confined.

Many of these people are imprisoned for years before even having a trial, and can wait just as long or even linger waiting for a guilty/not guilty. Even if they make bail, it's likely to be too high for anyone to be able to pay.

I'd say it's pretty easy to not get picked up for possession. Just keep the pot at home.

I'd say it's also pretty easy not to get charged for selling it or distribution by keeping the scales at home.

While the felony issue may begin to stray away from the main topic I will say that a felony isn't a permanent hurdle.

An individual can find a job that hires felons, fulfill any probation or other required matters, save up enough money to pay everything off, and fill out the paperwork to clear ones name.

It is possible to get a felony dropped and be able to vote, own guns, serve in the military, and find work in a field of work that would otherwise not hire felons. And even then, why get down about that? Nothing stops an individual from owning their own business and working for themselves.

originally posted by: AutomateThis1
Opinion:

The American prison system is not that bad.

That is a fairly subjective statement.

Surely, some prisoners are likely to prefer a system where their needs are catered for, even to the point of being institutionalized and incapable of surviving 'outside'. That is 'bad'.

But the raw numbers of those incarceratied and the imbalance, ethnically, of those numbers, indicate something is wrong with the system. The system itself is 'bad' in the sense of unfairness and agressiveness towards prosecution and isolation of very particular people.

The recent case of an African American who had been given a life sentence years ago for the attempted theft of garden shears is a case in point. Despite the benign nature of the crime (and that of the 'habitual' five other crimes he had comitted previously) he was being rejected for pardoning, again and again.

It was clear that the reason for such statutes to stay on the books has more to do with the extension of slavery by using the exception clause written in to the 13th Amendment. Clearly, America still has 'legal' slavery - and that is 'bad'.

While the conditions in prisons are less onerous than in the past, they still break up families and prevent the imprisoned from ever being able to make good, in so many circumstances. That is 'bad'.

The other issue is that US prisons are privately run, and therefore standards and conditions vary considerably. The levels of management and enforcement accountability are also highly questionable. Clearly, those who administer prisons are making a small fortune off crime. That is 'bad'.

originally posted by: IAMTAT
a reply to: AutomateThis1

I like your idea.
A couple wrinkles to suggest:

1) NO links to outside sources or info.

2) Opinion offered should be one in which you actually believe.

I want to practice defending points I don't actually believe in. Likewise I want the rest of us to practice making a case in a way they normally wouldn't. I may bring up highly controversal points that I definitely don't believe in.

As far as 1) goes. Outside sources are pertinent. For instance I want people to search for sources that pertain to matters they normally wouldn't search for or defend.

a reply to: CriticalStinker

"We lock away the most people per capita in the world."
Ever think why ?
Look at other countries

"We have been picking up people for pot, locking them up"
Maybe it is still against the law unless for medical reasons WITH a prescription.

"Then they come out and can't get hired because of a "felony".
A felony possession is intent to sell .
Otherwise a misdemeanor in some cases .

"It's a horribly wasteful use of tax dollars, so naturally I disagree. "
So , just let criminals run free ?
Again , take a look at other countries' justice system .

Denying ignorance.
Why ?
Not so difficult with a bit of practice and knowledge .

[qote]originally posted by: KansasGirl

originally posted by: AutomateThis1
Opinion:

The American prison system is not that bad.

Most criminals released from prison, whether after having served their full sentence or not, come out in worse shape, mentally and morally, than when they went in. To survive in most prisons, prisoners have to continue to commit crimes while there, if they want to have any hope of a tolerable stay. They come out even more used to and hardened to crime than before they went in. Recidivism rates speak for the poor quality of the American prison system.

Hmm...

That may be true, but what do you expect from a prison system? Is it supposed to be a pleasurable stay? I will say that the prisons and jails could do a lot better with therapy and other methods of reforming prisoners, but expecting it to be a pleasurable experience seems counterproductive.

There are already many people who treat jail as "three meals and a cot." And will commit crimes just to have a place to stay for the weekend or winter.

I would say that other aspects of the US such as education and economy contribute to the recidivism rates long before an individual even steps foot in jail, and is often the cause for the crime itself.

originally posted by: Gothmog
a reply to: CriticalStinker

"We lock away the most people per capita in the world."
Ever think why ?
Look at other countries

"We have been picking up people for pot, locking them up"
Maybe it is still against the law unless for medical reasons WITH a prescription.

"Then they come out and can't get hired because of a "felony".
A felony possession is intent to sell .
Otherwise a misdemeanor in some cases .

"It's a horribly wasteful use of tax dollars, so naturally I disagree. "
So , just let criminals run free ?
Again , take a look at other countries' justice system .

Denying ignorance.
Why ?
Not so difficult with a bit of practice and knowledge .

No disagreeing with other participants please. Your goal should be to work together to get me to change my mind.

a reply to: chr0naut

Alright, I would say that is more of an issue with the court system than with the prison system.