Pakistan International Airlines passenger plane crashes in Karachi

a reply to: Zaphod58

Thanks, haven't had much time to delve into this and already hearing a dozen different accounts of what happened.
This plane got it in the worse way.

here's one of the engines.

www.cnn.com...

a reply to: JIMC5499

It's possible. It's also possible that they raised the gear too soon, as they climbed out and the engines did scrape that way.

Definitely looks like the engine cowlings made contact with the runway, even if for a second.

The aircraft was reported in good condition, with all checks up to date.

Look at all those intact plane parts, huge parts. Hmm, I though planes disintegrated when they crashed like at 9/11.

a reply to: panoz77

Ah yes, the false comparison again. I love how this pops out with every plane crash and building fire. According to this logic, if a car accident at 20 mph doesn't look exactly the same as one at 100 mph, then one of them isn't real.

originally posted by: Bigburgh
a reply to: Zaphod58

Wait? So the engines didn't come off or quit working after scraping the asphalt?


Edit: updated the pic I linked. But the bird is much closer to the camera.

Your ATS cached picture does look like drag damage,

files.abovetopsecret.com...

Yes!👍👍
Unfortunately it's not the whole story...
thanks for looking at this.

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: panoz77

Ah yes, the false comparison again. I love how this pops out with every plane crash and building fire. According to this logic, if a car accident at 20 mph doesn't look exactly the same as one at 100 mph, then one of them isn't real.

Ah yes, so a plane traveling at 200 mph has huge parts everywhere, but one at 500 mph evaporates into microscopic dust, it that the physics?

originally posted by: Bigburgh
Here's a pic after the gearless belly landing attempt. You can see the damage to both engines.

CCTV footage of crash.
m.youtube.com...

Sounds right on.

Ah yes, so a plane traveling at 200 mph has huge parts everywhere, but one at 500 mph evaporates into microscopic dust, it that the physics?

Watch the loop. Nose is pitched up.

a reply to: panoz77

Airspeed and impact type make huge differences. An aircraft that's trying to land is going relatively slow, and hits at a flat angle, so the impact force tends to leave larger pieces. An aircraft at high speed, and/or an extreme angle hits with significantly more force, resulting in much smaller pieces. There have been examples of this for decades.

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: panoz77

Airspeed and impact type make huge differences. An aircraft that's trying to land is going relatively slow, and hits at a flat angle, so the impact force tends to leave larger pieces. An aircraft at high speed, and/or an extreme angle hits with significantly more force, resulting in much smaller pieces. There have been examples of this for decades.

Was the pentagon an extreme angle or more like a landing configuration? Do you think the passenger plane that hit the pentagon was traveling mere ft above the ground at 500-600mph?
www.skybrary.aero...

a reply to: panoz77

Landing speed is usually between 160 and 180 mph. The aircraft at the Pentagon was traveling significantly faster than that at impact. The primary radar data from the airport shows that, in addition to the FDE.

And yes, I'm aware of ground effect. It's not nearly the impediment you think it is.

There were two survivors. One is the president of the Bank of Punjab, the other is an engineer. According to him, the aircraft briefly touched down, before climbing again. The pilot said they were going to make another attempt at landing after flying about 10 minutes, and they crashed before reaching the airport.

www.hindustantimes.com...

originally posted by: LogicalGraphitti

originally posted by: solidshot
Claims now that two may have survived the crash.

apnews.com...

The article says they just resumed flights earlier this week. I wonder if losing an engine has to do with parking an aircraft for a long period of time. Let's hope this isn't a trend as airlines start back up.

That might be pretty much the case. You need to keep the airplane running when it's in the storage. I was actually thinking that we might see few crashes here and there once the flights will be resumed

One person on the ground said that the wheels were down, but the aircraft was on fire.

www.dw.com...

New video from another angle shows the aircraft descending before going behind buildings, and exploding. It appears that the landing gear is down and locked, although it's hard to tell with the nose gear.

originally posted by: panoz77

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: panoz77

Ah yes, the false comparison again. I love how this pops out with every plane crash and building fire. According to this logic, if a car accident at 20 mph doesn't look exactly the same as one at 100 mph, then one of them isn't real.

Ah yes, so a plane traveling at 200 mph has huge parts everywhere, but one at 500 mph evaporates into microscopic dust, it that the physics?

Pretty much. The kinetic energy that is expended in tearing an aircraft apart equals the mass of the object times the velocity squared, so if the speed doubles, the energy to be dissipated is 4 times as much, and if the 37 was stalled, the speed was probably less than 140 knots or about 160 mph, not 200. At landing weight, the mass of a 737 is about 40,000 kg, so the kinetic energy would be about 200 million kilograms meters/second. The 757 that hit the Pentagon was a 757 at near takeoff weight of about 100000 kg and hit at a speed near Vmo of 350 knots or 400 mph, so the kinetic energy would be about 3 billion kg meters/second. That is the physics.

Post here claiming there are images of "Scrape marks" on the runway made by the engines before they decided to go around?

www.airlive.net...

I would have thought the best thing in the situation is to land on your main carriage and lose speed until your nose stalls out and drops, that how the military do it?

Also that isnt a belly landing surely, if those engines hit the deck they would be ripped off and if by chance he was so close they rubbed the runway then that would have been a perfect belly landing if he cut the gas right there.

Oh man, RIP and condolences to those touched by this.