Is it time or not? Or have we simply lost the moral compass and bravery of the founding fathers?

I love history. There is not one thing about the history of Europe that I couldn't tell you. I know a ton about Oriental history and particularly love the period of the Three Kingdoms, the history of written Oriental languages, of Hinduism, and come to think of it, I could likely correctly answer any question about American history.

There is one area where I admit I am seriously lacking. It's nothing like Holocaust misinformation which I bet I am not the only one who feels like you just "don't go there" since the mere entertaining of it is uncomfortable and frowned upon. But in a way, it seems the idea of the Militia, the Right to Bear Arms, and the advice left for us by the founding fathers is in a way, the same. It's an area people simply don't like to discuss and I guarantee it's an area nobody would want to be seen as interested much less active in. But has the time not come?

The founding fathers made it quite clear, if those who followed didn't understand that the Constitution was written as is because they had already learned the related lessons, then they were doomed. We were meant to not have to. They couldn't be more clear that we were simply NEVER to allow the government to bend the rules, to widen the restraints, to convince us to just take a pinch of our liberties away because if ever we did once, there would be a snowballing effect until we were in no better a position than they, living thousands of miles from a Crown putting rules and restrictions on their everyday lives to the point they couldn't even send a holiday letter or have a cup of tea without a handful of extra fees to this entity which they were two and three generations from ever having known. And so they took the country for their own and we all know the story of how that occurred.

This is where I don't know if I will be within guidelines and if not, I do apologize mods it's just a pondering I'm doing, not trying to get people to think anything unruly. What I have a major deficit in though, is what we are meant to do at times like this. And whether on the left or right, I don't think anyone would disagree that we have a runaway government so far beyond anything the founders probably imagined possible with our fractional reserve lending central bank foreign controlled rented economy, a government meant to provide protection from enemies domestic so on the streets committing crimes, and foreign armies and belligerents, a government who has gone beyond protection and infrastructure, really it's only business at all as far as we should be concerned, and has decided that it would take the position of the authority on marriages, the authority on fishing, the authority on flying airplanes, the authority on where you can leave your car, the authority on what a community's school and teachers focus on, whom a private company hires, what we can do to our bodies, how we can have sex, what may be traded freely and what you cannot trade for something...again even sex, and the gross overstepping isn't even the WORST of it all.

The worst is that the system is one now where anyone who goes into is is so surrounded by others robbing it blindly that they easily fall into robbing it as well. How do we live in a country that countries like Denmark or Estonia seem to have better infrastructure and more high tech available when it's incomprehensible just how rich we are compared to the next country? We have had so much wealth generated here, a hundred times that of the runner up, yet we suffer from low education, filth, poverty, homelessness, a military and education system which must trade off taking hits to barely be covered when we theoretically have so much money, funding the best in the world should cost pocket change. It is because anyone after a certain level of power is a sociopathic willing-to-do-anything to funnel money to themselves and their family and friends that I have a feeling government employee theft is probably just as huge an expense as the military if not even more, and a shadow second entity which has put trillions into tech and exploration and developments which we will never benefit from as simple folk...remember in the one session of Congress, they failed to account for 21 TRILLION DOLLARS that had disappeared that years previous 9 or 10 MONTHS ALONE!? More is stolen from us than is put into the country for the citizens who created that wealth. We should look like Stat Trek ville, NOT have Denmark make us look like the lesser country, (no offense, I seriously adore the Danes).

But the only thing outlined specifically as an answer to a problem is the Militia. The warning is given about tyrannical systems taking over but no answer to it. The Militia, as far as I think I may be wrong, was because the founders didn't believe in a standing army. So the Militia was every able bodied man taking one of his guns and reporting for duty along with every able bodied alien who was ready to pledge allegiance to the US and they would be under control of the President to fight outside our borders or the governor to fight within a state's boundaries.

But how does a citizenry go about organizing a Militia AGAINST the government itself? And no, that isn't silly or drastic, once again we are talking about the worst criminals who have cost us everything who have left our kids dumb and who have left a percentage of citizens struggling and in need or on the streets in a nation with enough money made in just a decade for every citizen to be a millionaire!

So there is no question IMHO that it's time since 9 out of every 10 congressmen, cabinet members, and maybe even judges are not petty criminals but SERIOUS ones. Whose thefts and murders and such would put any other lowly criminal to shame and had we done even their most INNOCENT infraction, we would be forced into a locked cage to tick away the rest of our lives wasted. Is it time to create an official body of revolutionaries to take the country back and if so is it feasible? Anyone who thinks it's too early is nuts as we enter the age of five or six continental unions where every last person on Earth come 5g will be traceable at all times via satellite and your every step and purchase and behavior logged, possibly even arrested for what logarithms say you are likely to do next.

Once the gun round ups happen it will no longer be possible and that is already in the process of occurring. We thought that the military would be faithful to the people but it doesn't look like they are cohesive enough to so anyone who did stand up would see backs turn and be let down. I honestly think we passed the point of too late when September 11 came and went and not one government stooge went to prison much less lost his life for retribution for those who lost theirs.

a reply to: AlexandrosTheGreat

That's a whole bunch of words.

So you knows yourself some history, eh? Think the Militia's gonna do something? Maybe do things the way you think they should be done?

So, History Man, when's the last time the Militia showed up? Let's discuss.

a reply to: AlexandrosTheGreat

You want to go all the way back to the founding fathers?

How many native chiefs went to independence hall to cut a deal and only be stabbed in the back? And when they were turned on they formed their own militias to fight for what they thought would be shared and rightful land.
So right from the get go, Americans have been fighting government. You think it will ever change?

How about the Bundy ranch?

a reply to: AlexandrosTheGreat

Is it time to create an official body of revolutionaries to take the country back and if so is it feasible?

Of course a revolution is possible. Whether violent or velvet.

But I cannot trust the motives and intentions of those who would take up arms to do so unless and until an honest effort is made to make the most and the best of the peaceful tools provided by the Constitution.... and perhaps not even then. Especially after this coronacrapfest.

I have no intention or desire to live under the barrel of anyone's gun.

AInt no one putting down their smartphones long enough for that. Are you kidding?

I know why you feel the way you do.

All morning I was listening to talk shows and news folk, talking about obeying, and what they thought should be done to the people who failed to obey the "stay home and be safe" orders. Every time I heard them say the word "obey", it was like listening to nails scraping against a blackboard.

It gives me the hee bee geebees also.

Ok so a lot of this is popping up. Look during the time of the Founding Fathers, if a person was sick to this kind of illness, those same people wouldn't be out and about getting everyone else sick. People had less issues with smacking someone that was being an issue to the common towns folks.

Today we literally have people who are still opening up ice cream containers in the store and licking them before putting them back in the freezer. There are people who are going around licking elevator buttons. Why? Ask your self how would Ben Franklin have dealt with that person? We know what Burrs and Hamilton did, and that was over words. Imagine how they would have handled these "Social Trend Setters"?

We don't hear about people back then taking a crap in the public wells, or pissing in the community garden, so why do you think the Founding Fathers would have been soft on the idiots doing the same kinds of things today?

Let's be very clear here; "I am not for the Government punishing everyone over the misdeeds of a small few, and when that happens everyone suffers, but ... BUT ... if these people can't control their behaviors then something must be done to protect the majority of people. Stay home if your feeling ill, but some people think "oh I'm feeling really sick with symptoms that seems like the Corona Virus, but if I don't get tested, then I'm ok".

With people going around licking items in stores, purposely coughing on food in places where people go, licking common items that people touch in public areas, and just generally disregarding the safety and health of others in the community. What would you do?


Here's another basic reformation of the question:
"If you knew that the hotchick/dude had AIDs/HIV and that they were going around having sex with people. Would you also have sex with them? Is it ok for them to do that? If you could stop them would you?"

The Corona Virus is not the AIDs/HIV issue, but just like the Great Mortality, the same questions have to be asked. The answers to the issues are not good, but sometimes are needed. Luckily, we have something called the right to defend ourselves in today's world, so if the Government pushes to far, then the people can push back. Go check out the Peasants' Revolt in England of 1381 or the revolt of the Ciompi in Florence in 1378. These may seems like ancient history, but it was a massive pandemic that caused these issues to be caused. The people back then, like people today, pushed back against unreasonable over-reach. I guess we'll have to wait and see, but given the inability for some people to use common sense and take personal responsibility for their own actions, society as a whole may have to take one on the chin until those people disregarding the safety of others take one in the head (take that anyway you want, but I mean slapping some sense into their heads)

It will be when the majority can’t have a house, boat, car, or dirt bike. Really we are nowhere close, but this has shown it could happen pretty quick.
When the dirt bikes end, then homes and food shortages, then and only then if they try a gun confiscation, all hell will break loose.
I do see how fast it could happen as this crap unfolds. If it keeps escalating, it could be way sooner than I ever thought it could, but not until the above happens.

a reply to: AlexandrosTheGreat

The idea that the 2nd amendment and citizen militias can take on the government is nothing but hubris. It’s something they dangle in front of people to make them think they have the ability to fight back if things get too bad. It’s not real.

This is 2020. No anti-government force is going to stand a chance in this country when it comes to a straight up shootout. People hold up what happened in Vietnam as evidence that a guerilla force can win against the might of the US military. But that was 50 years ago. Technology has changed everything.

How well would Vietnam have gone for the north Vietnamese if we could have tracked them thermally from a satellite the moment they left their tunnels and hit them with a rocket from a drone they couldn’t see or hear? Think about this, if us having guns was really a threat to them do you think they would have allowed it this long?

The real threat isn’t in guns, or firepower, or bullets. It’s in the only thing we have that can even the playing field. Technology. Which is why it’s being regulated so heavily. They know this. That should be apparent from their actions.

originally posted by: Deplorable
a reply to: AlexandrosTheGreat

That's a whole bunch of words.

So you knows yourself some history, eh? Think the Militia's gonna do something? Maybe do things the way you think they should be done?

So, History Man, when's the last time the Militia showed up? Let's discuss.

It's been mentioned but BLM Nevada Bundy Ranch standoff 2014. Pretty much everyone was acquitted because F the government.

Also, Patriots are still here. We just aren't the kneejerk gun nuts everyone wants you to believe we are. It's an interesting world out there....

The problem is the public doesn't know who the enemy is.

The public is not smart enough to realize that the Hollywood tribe has taken over.

a reply to: AlexandrosTheGreat

Here are a few snippets from an excellent essay on civil liberties at times of war/ crisis and the US government's handling of rights and civil liberties.

Some have had official apologies and rescinded sentences but all these actions are the sentiments of our ancestors throughout our short history. All were a natural response to the particular crisis and time in history under less than ideal circumstances.

The fact remains that we always came back to our center once the crisis was averted. I bet that your counterparts in all these historical instances of suspension of civil liberties sounded just like you guys.

We always come back. There is even less reason with this threat to assume that we wont return to the way things should be.

Give it a calm read.

Civil liberties in wartime

By ShareAmerica
Apr 6, 2015

In times of war or grave threat, the United States has not always lived up to its highest ideals. But the American people and their government do act to restore their civil rights and liberties and those of others. The author, Geoffrey R. Stone, is the Edward H. Levi Distinguished Service Professor at the University of Chicago Law School.

An important lesson of American history is that the United States tends to restrict civil liberties excessively in time of war. In some sense, this is understandable, because war breeds fear and fear breeds repression. But as a self-governing society that aspires to respect the liberties of all people, the United States must strive to discipline itself and to respect individual freedom even in time of war. A critical question is whether we can learn the lessons of our own history.

Federalists enacted the Alien and Sedition Acts of 1798. The Alien Act empowered the president to deport any noncitizen he judged to be dangerous to the peace and safety of the United States. The act accorded the noncitizen no right to a hearing, no right to present evidence and no right to judicial review.

During the course of the Civil War, Lincoln suspended the writ of habeas corpus on eight separate occasions. (The writ of habeas corpus enables a court to decide whether an individual is being detained by the government unlawfully. The Constitution allows the writ to be suspended only “when in cases of rebellion or invasion the public safety” requires it. ) 

The most extreme of these suspensions, which applied throughout the entire United States, authorized the military to arrest “all persons … guilty of any disloyal practice.” Under this authority, military officers arrested and imprisoned as many as 38,000 civilians, with no judicial proceedings and no judicial review of the legality of the detentions.

Shortly after the United States entered the war, Congress enacted the Espionage Act of 1917. Although the act was not directed at dissent generally, aggressive federal prosecutors and compliant federal judges quickly transformed it into a blanket prohibition of seditious utterance

During World War I, the government prosecuted more than 2,000 dissenters for opposing the war or the draft, and in an atmosphere of fear, hysteria and clamor, most judges were quick to mete out severe punishment — often 10 to 20 years in prison — to those deemed disloyal. The result was the suppression of all genuine debate about the merits, the morality and the progress of the war.

On December 7, 1941, Japan attacked Pearl Harbor. Two months later, on February 19, 1942, President Franklin Roosevelt signed Executive Order 9066, which authorized the Army to “designate military areas” from which “any persons may be excluded.” Although the words “Japanese” or “Japanese American” never appeared in the order, it was understood to apply only to persons of Japanese ancestry

Over the next eight months, 120,000 individuals of Japanese descent were forced to leave their homes in California, Washington, Oregon and Arizona. Two-thirds of these individuals were American citizens, representing almost 90 percent of all Japanese Americans.

On the orders of military police, these individuals were transported to one of 10 internment camps, which were located in isolated areas in wind-swept deserts or vast swamplands. Men, women and children were placed in overcrowded rooms with no furniture other than cots. They found themselves surrounded by barbed wire and military police, and there they remained for three years

In Korematsu v. United States, decided in 1944, the Supreme Court, in a 6–3 decision, upheld the president’s action.  The court offered the following explanation:
We are not unmindful of the hardships imposed upon a large group of American citizens. But hardships are part of war, and war is an aggregation of hardships. Korematsu was not excluded from the West Coast because of hostility to his race, but because the military authorities decided that the urgency of the situation demanded that all citizens of Japanese ancestry be segregated from the area. We cannot — by availing ourselves of the calm perspective of hindsight — say that these actions were unjustified.

share.america.gov...

The last time you saw the civilian militia at work, was the Bundy stand off against the Beauru of Land Management and the ATF. A group of armed US citizens stood their ground against the US Government. Think of this, why would you have a guard dog with not teeth. All bark and no bite. That's what some people in this country would like all of us to be, beat dogs. The Bundy ranch is a good example of armed resistance standing up to the might of Goverment, including their jets tanks and nuclear bombs. Not all of us are willing to bitch up and give up our freedoms. The Constitution is our collective rights against government over reach. Wake up America before it to late. Go USA.

a reply to: Guyfriday

just look at what happened in china as soon as the lockdown was lifted they rioted

a reply to: Steveogold

China has a different culture than the USA.

originally posted by: strongfp
a reply to: AlexandrosTheGreat

You want to go all the way back to the founding fathers?

How many native chiefs went to independence hall to cut a deal and only be stabbed in the back? And when they were turned on they formed their own militias to fight for what they thought would be shared and rightful land.
So right from the get go, Americans have been fighting government. You think it will ever change?

How about the Bundy ranch?

Tecumseh was/is one of my favorite subjects ever. He was incredible but nothing could overcome what they were facing. Amazing person.

And to your point he was continually stabbed in the back. We are built on avarice and blood.

originally posted by: Generation9
The problem is the public doesn't know who the enemy is.

The public is not smart enough to realize that the Hollywood tribe has taken over.

Who is that? just a name or two will suffice...

a reply to: AlexandrosTheGreat

It's dead Jim...

originally posted by: strongfp
a reply to: AlexandrosTheGreat

You want to go all the way back to the founding fathers?

How many native chiefs went to independence hall to cut a deal and only be stabbed in the back

How about the Bundy ranch?

Right on, another reminder that government can't be trusted, LaVoy Finicum was trapped and then shot in the back...