Coronavirus death toll Europe, official numbers - NOW AVAILABLE!

Is SARS-CoV-2 man-made? No!

Can SARS-CoV-2 cause a more painful death than influenza by attacking the lungs? Yes!

Should we all live in fear of SARS-CoV-2 now and destroy our future because it is such a deadly disease? No, NO, NO !!!

The mortality rate in ALL European countries for week 12 (March 16 to 22) in 2020 is BELOW the maximum levels reached in recent years!
In spite of SARS-CoV-2.
Official statistics and hard proof: Mortality monitoring in Europe
The green/blue lines show the number of deaths in week 12. Notice how it is even BELOW the average for many countries.
The spikes in the past years stem from severe influenza seasons. As regards mortality, SARS-CoV-2 had less impact in Europe than these influenza viruses.


Please understand this clearly:
SARS-CoV-2 has not caused a raise of mortality in March in Italy or any other country in Europe.
This is not some BS. These are the real, hard numbers.

Why then does it look like the world is going to end?

- Italy and Spain are notorious for having health systems that have been running on the border of their capacity for years. With or without Covid-19 they cannot serve all patients well. Hygiene leaves to be desired, the risk of contracting infections in these hospitals is higher than average. With all the media attention this is now dragged into the limelight, but the situation was not much better before. I would guess that the same is true for the other European countries with an especially weak economy, like Greece, Cyprus and Portugal.

- Germany, Switzerland and the Netherlands are countries that have been reported with empty beds in the ICUs currently! Their health care systems are better funded (stronger economies).

- I do not see official institutions in Europe making any effort to use "what works" instead of "what the medical establishment will tolerate". The USA can be glad to have a president who is more interested in results than in mere authoritarianism.

Is there something that can be done about the disease Covid-19? Yes, absolutely so!
Here are just two examples of successful approaches of how lives can be saved:
New York hospitals treating coronavirus patients with vitamin C
COVID-19’s Stop-Gap Solution Until Vaccines and Antivirals Are Ready

So here you have it. Official numbers and references.
1) While the disease can in some cases lead to tragic deaths, its effect on the mortality rate in Europe is not higher than a severe influenza.
2) There are treatment options available. If medicos and hospitals would be more open for new ideas, the death toll could be minimized.

If you understand German here is an analysis of what is really dangerous about the current situation:

a reply to: SacredLore

Unless you have a PhD or three letters in your name; nobody likes factual, statistical, or mathematical information.....

Or unless you chose to use your brain.... thank you for the post S&F for the research

Throw me more charts, numbers, accusatory claims that I'm dumb, and tell me something.. anything. things. wordy things.

am I going to die now?

Pretty sure loads of people have thus far, but they're normal. or were normal.

cest la vie...

here I am living in an echo of the world I knew, however... that is the real death toll.

a reply to: SacredLore

Furthermore, there is always a few weeks of delay in death registration and reporting. Hence, the EuroMOMO mortality figures for the most recent weeks must be interpreted with some caution.

a reply to: SacredLore

C19 causes both mortality and morbidity.

The trouble with this death rate, is that nearly all the cases that need hospital have had hospital to go to , where they're treated and hopefully recover.

The critical number you want to look at , is how many cases need hospital care , to recover .
And Italy has shown us that one in three cases needs hospital care. With pandemic peaks etc , even the best health systems would never cope.

So in reality , given LACK of hospital care during the peaks, one in three people who catch the disease , is
now likely to be going to die .

This is the problem , it's why we have lockdowns . It's not very nice but it's the way it is. When the media has 'the vast majority are mild illnesses' , that's only if you call two thirds of the population the 'vast' majority .

You can guarantee , they would not b having lockdown if the intent was not to stamp c19 out. If they let it run , it'd completely ruin everything , as in , the economy , government continuity , the whole shebang . The death rate will increase when the peak happens . It's well worth not getting this disease .

originally posted by: DoctorBluechip
And Italy has shown us that one in three cases needs hospital care.

No. Italy has shown us that in Italy, one in three need hospital care.

USA, Germany, South Korea - also not Italy - not Iran - and not Spain.

So in reality , given LACK of hospital care during the peaks, one in three people who catch the disease , is now likely to be going to die .

In Italy, maybe...

a reply to: DoctorBluechip

If they let it run , it'd completely ruin everything , as in , the economy , government continuity , the whole shebang .

The economy is already ruined. I seen an article that stated unemployment claims yesterday were over 3 million, 4x the record set in 2008. Tax rates will increase again to pay for it eventually which will ultimately push jobs out of the US again. Then we’re right back to the Obama years of wage increases that don’t even match inflation. Homes will lose value, most people have probably already lost over 30% of their retirements. People’s credit is being ruined at an alarming rate right now as well. Just a big snowball effect that most don’t see coming and are just happy those “free checks” are coming. Little do they know they will pay that money back 10 fold.

originally posted by: SeektoUnderstand
a reply to: SacredLore

Unless you have a PhD or three letters in your name; nobody likes factual, statistical, or mathematical information.....

Or unless you chose to use your brain.... thank you for the post S&F for the research

Even if you have a PhD, say something against the chosen alarmist narrative the media is going with right now and they will dismiss you. Just ask Dr. Birx, who said that these alarmist predictions and coverage from the media is irresponsible. Now all of a sudden the media doesn't like her.

originally posted by: Middleoftheroad
a reply to: DoctorBluechip

If they let it run , it'd completely ruin everything , as in , the economy , government continuity , the whole shebang .

The economy is already ruined. I seen an article that stated unemployment claims yesterday were over 3 million, 4x the record set in 2008. Tax rates will increase again to pay for it eventually which will ultimately push jobs out of the US again.

You're forgetting something. Our annual budget didn't go up $2T a year. We're not gonna have this package every year. It's a one-time thing. We don't need to up taxes to cover a one-time package. Our debt was $23T. It's $25T now. If our tax rates are fine for $23T debt, they're fine for $25T debt.

We need serious domestic spending cuts to balance the budget, not more taxes.

a reply to: Middleoftheroad

I seen an article that stated unemployment claims yesterday were over 3 million, 4x the record set in 2008

But , did this "article" take into fact a good portion were temporarily laid off ?
I think not.

a reply to: moebius

Thank you for pointing this out. Important indeed. I do not expect a massive deviation, but let's keep an eye on these numbers in the coming weeks.

a reply to: SacredLore

Spain and Italy have always been among Europe’s poorer countries and not too technologically advanced as many European countries even though they are thought of as first world countries.

The problem with this coronavirus is its unknowns—to the scientific and medical establishments.

They have an established treatment for the flu but not this virus as of yet-- that’s the basic problem.

When that changes things will change

Comparing it to the flu is irrelevant because they know they flu--this they have many unknowns.

For better or worse the world depends on the medical and scientific establishment

As predicted, this thread is getting zero action.

If it's not doomporn, they're not interested. Facts be damned.

www.worldometers.info...

There you go..... updated all the time.

a reply to: flice

The worldometer numbers must be interpreted with utmost care for the following reasons:

1) The vast majority of people are not even tested for the virus due to the lack of resources.
In our (wealthy) country you have no chance of being tested if you do not have fever and coughing.
Compare this to famous people like Tom Hanks and Paulo Dybala who had a positive test but only minor or no symptoms.
Therefore the "Coronavirus Cases" on worldometer currently only reflects the cases with pronounced symptoms and the number is much too low.
According to the CDC: "Recent reports suggest that approximately 80% of COVID-19 patients (of all ages) have experienced mild illness."
In European countries these mild cases are not even tested and I would be surprised if the situation were any better in the USA at the moment.

2) Tests for the antibodies are not widely used, yet (availabilty).
Only this test, applied on a large scale, will reliably include all the cases with mild or no symptoms.

Until the above points are solved (months or even years in the future), the best option we have is to look at the absolute mortality rate as presented in my original post.
If this does not change significantly, Covid-19 is not the global catastrophe it is made out to be.

Also note that worldometer is not strictly a scientific and evidence-based organization:
Worldometer is run by an international team of developers, researchers, and volunteers with the goal of making world statistics available in a thought-provoking and time relevant format to a wide audience around the world. Worldometer is owned by Dadax, an independent company. We have no political, governmental, or corporate affiliation.
I am not saying they are putting out false numbers or anything. But it very much sounds like "let's build a cool wesite" (developers are listed first!) that got traction.
That the entire world is looking to this website now in blind faith to make decisions that will affect the lives of billions for the coming years is not a good idea.
The numbers are useful, but careful interpretation is needed.

a reply to: Willtell

I agree.
But it becomes visible now that all is not well in the medical world.
In my original post I have given a link with an alternative approach that is saving lives at this moment in New York.
Other approaches are available.
But the medical establishment is completely fixated on their old solutions.
I am all for finding a vaccine, but with the mutations that are to be expected not even this will be a permanent solution.
And we need working solutions NOW.

The time has come for mainstream medicine to open itself up to solutions even if they are not patentable.
The whole system is rigged so that only a patentable solution can ever make it to market because it costs fortunes to pass all the required tests. Understandably nobody is willing to pay for these studies just to prove that vitamin C infusions can save the lives of people in critical condition.

In other fields "thinking outside of the box" is considered a desirable quality.
It is time that this spirit of exploration and discovery returns to the medical sciences, in an independent way.
The true spirit of science.

a reply to: SeektoUnderstand

Even with a PhD they won't hear you. Somebody undertook the applaudable effort to collect this:

12 Experts Questioning the Coronavirus Panic

All 12 with a Dr. or Prof. title. But their important questions are mostly ignored by the mainstream media. This is not right. Science must be an open field for free discussion.

a reply to: SacredLore

But the medical establishment is completely fixated on their old solutions

We won’t solve this longstanding problem now. The medical and scientific establishment has always been brain dead when it came to preventative health issues and they will be after this is over and won’t change, believe me.

The US with their terrible health care system and an ignorant incompetent president who got rid of the pandemic national security office, and said when there were 5 cases in the US that we would have none pretty soon, will end up being the worse country affected by this virus as the numbers are now indicating.

Europe and Asia will do better for a variety of reasons one being they have viable national health care systems the US doesn’t.

The long-standing scientific and medical establishment's refusal to emphasize and trust the efficacy of advocating taking healthy supplements and advancing knowledge of proper dietary awareness is adding to this terrible situation. Maybe one silver-linning in this horrible experience is that more people will become aware of the benefits of living a healthier lifestyle.

a reply to: flice

You made my day!

I am amazed at how enamored many are with negativity. Even here on ATS where I thought I would find the free spirits and critical thinkers. Not the conformists and cowards.
When I am in the mood I try to counter the negativity by pointing to solutions, new perspectives and hope. But sometimes I feel like I should just let the universe have its way. In the end we are all on our individual journey. If somebody needs a negative experience that badly, so be it.

As the German video that I linked in the OP has been banned by YT, here is my personal way of fighting back the oppression of free speech.
The following videos are in English and state the same ideas as the German video, only in much more radical ways. This is full blown conspiracy theory and I don't agree with much of it. But both videos are important warnings of a possible, desperate future for us. Stay alert and fight back if it should turn out that Jeff Berwick or David Icke were right with some of their statements.

Enjoy (or ignore), but don't become paranoid: