How do traits evolve? Where do traits come from?

originally posted by: AnonymousMartyr
It is easy to see intelligent design when you are looking for intelligent design; it is kind of like seeing the paranormal in a coincidence - the odds may be astronomical and they should be.
In both cases if you are only looking at the winning lottery ticket you must remember the odds and all those tickets that did not win.
Genetic evolutionary change may be random; the change is not looking to fulfill a mission - a change caused from solar radiation will only have an astronomical chance of being repeated or passed on.

Yes, it's easy to see intelligent design because we were designed by intelligence.

Randomness has nothing to do with this. Many of these mutations occur when the organisms needs it and at exactly the right point. There's no evidence of randomness. When Malaria spreads in a population, a point mutation happens at exactly the right spot to flip the code from Glutamic Acid to Valine. These causes Sickle Cell which helps fight Malaria.

Most of these mutations and adaptions happen exactly at the right time in exactly the right place to protect the organism. This isn't like hitting the Lottery once, it's like hitting the Lottery every time you play.

There's no evidence that randomness is occurring. The process is designed to reach an optimal level for an organism to survive in an environment. We see this with extremophiles where life adapts to all sorts of harsh environments that we once thought would be impossible to survive in.

Life is designed to find a way to survive and adapt.

How can anything random evolve all of these parts that just work together to carry out a specific function? It's what I call the Modular Intelligent Design Interpretation of Evolution. We know intelligence can do this but it's impossible for randomness to do this.

When a person designs a modular home, it may be made up of 50 different parts that are designed to work together. You transport the parts to the land and then put the house together via instruction. The pats just work together because they were designed that way.

There's molecular machines with 100 different parts. Look at all the parts of the human body or of animals that work together. This is clearly Intelligent Design. Why would randomness create any parts that work together?

I just put together a race track for my Nephew that came with instructions and all of these parts that were designed to work together. We don't see any evolution of these parts that make up humans, animals or molecular machines. These parts are designed by intelligence to work together to carry out a specific function.

You might call it the Maker’s molecular outboard motor. Its most interesting aspect is that it is attached to and rotated by a tiny, electrical “motor” made of different kinds of protein. Like an electrical motor, the flagellum contains a rod (drive shaft), a hook (universal joint), L- and P-rings (bushings/bearings), S- and M-rings (rotor), and a C-ring and stud (stator). The flagellar filament (propeller) is attached to the flagellar motor via the hook. To function completely, the flagellum requires over 40 different proteins. The electrical power driving the motor is supplied by the voltage difference developed across the cell membrane. This motor is one of the nature’s best molecular machines!

Some scientists have called bacterial flagella the “most efficient machine in the universe” with its self assembly and repair, water-cooled rotary engine, proton motive-force drive system, forward and reverse gears, operating speeds of 6,000 to 17,000 rpm, direction-reversing capability, and hard-wired signal-transduction system with short-term memory.

answersingenesis.org...

Here's more:

A cilium consists of a membrane-coated bundle of fibers called an axoneme. An axoneme contains a ring of 9 double microtubules surrounding two central single microtubules. Each outer doublet consists of a ring of 13 filaments (subfiber A) fused to an assembly of 10 filaments (subfiber B). The filaments of the microtubules are composed of two proteins called alpha and beta tubulin. The 11 microtubules forming an axoneme are held together by three types of connectors: subfibers A are joined to the central microtubules by radial spokes; adjacent outer doublets are joined by linkers that consist of a highly elastic protein called nexin; and the central microtubules are joined by a connecting bridge. Finally, every subfiber A bears two arms, an inner arm and an outer arm, both containing the protein dynein.

But how does a cilium work? Experiments have indicated that ciliary motion results from the chemically-powered “walking” of the dynein arms on one microtubule up the neighboring subfiber B of a second microtubule so that the two microtubules slide past each other (Figure 2). However, the protein cross-links between microtubules in an intact cilium prevent neighboring microtubules from sliding past each other by more than a short distance. These cross-links, therefore, convert the dynein-induced sliding motion to a bending motion of the entire axoneme.

Now, let us sit back, review the workings of the cilium, and consider what it implies. Cilia are composed of at least a half dozen proteins: alpha-tubulin, beta-tubulin, dynein, nexin, spoke protein, and a central bridge protein. These combine to perform one task, ciliary motion, and all of these proteins must be present for the cilium to function. If the tubulins are absent, then there are no filaments to slide; if the dynein is missing, then the cilium remains rigid and motionless; if nexin or the other connecting proteins are missing, then the axoneme falls apart when the filaments slide.

What we see in the cilium, then, is not just profound complexity, but it is also irreducible complexity on the molecular scale. Recall that by “irreducible complexity” we mean an apparatus that requires several distinct components for the whole to work. My mousetrap must have a base, hammer, spring, catch, and holding bar, all working together, in order to function. Similarly, the cilium, as it is constituted, must have the sliding filaments, connecting proteins, and motor proteins for function to occur. In the absence of any one of those components, the apparatus is useless.

intelligentdesign.org...

I don't just talk about Irreducible Complexity. I talk about IRREDUCIBLE MODULARIZATION!

There's not a shred of evidence that these parts evolved in any natural or random way. They were designed to work together. They are the right shape, right size and they come together in the right angles and distances to carry out a specific function.

Here's a video that shows how the transcription and translation process works.



All of these parts were designed by intelligence to work together just like the parts of a modular home or of the race track I bought my nephew.

The parts are irreducibly complex. There's no evidence that anything random or natural can evolve parts that just work together to carry out a specific task. We see this when we enter a factory and see a machine made up of many parts that was designed to carry out a task.

All life in the physical density is facilitated by microbes. They created plant and animal life to collect food for them. Microbes are Stichens Annunaki. Microbes are the environmental factors of change and adaptation. Microbes are the drive behind your diet. Microbes are the conciousness that flips your brains switches. Microbes are the angels and demons of idiotic religious interpretation of nature. Microbes are you'd entire personality, youre entire unique self is a microbial demographic, a balance between various endophytic bacteria and fungus.

In short, microbes are everything. Your only importance as a humanure in this universe is that you function as a carbohydrate/poop factory for and by microbes in your body, and act as a microbe to much larger entities than you could ever imagine, as you reside within and for their digestion, in the rhizosphere of the fallen tree of Eden, a fractal recursive universe of cyclic death we reside in, no where near either extreme, no where near Eden or Helll, regarding the scales of polarity, size or importance.

How does ignorance evolve? Where do dumb people come from?

a reply to: neoholographic

Great sources there as usual! Totally unbiased and legit science... NOT.

originally posted by: Barcs
a reply to: neoholographic

Great sources there as usual! Totally unbiased and legit science... NOT.

Have you remained a 12 year old child the entirety of your 15 years here on ATS? You never debate science. Get off the field if you can't play.

originally posted by: cooperton

originally posted by: Barcs
a reply to: neoholographic

Great sources there as usual! Totally unbiased and legit science... NOT.

Have you remained a 12 year old child the entirety of your 15 years here on ATS? You never debate science. Get off the field if you can't play.

Are you saying you can't cheat at science? Chaos Theory would confirm you can. I bring a bat to a ping pong game...

originally posted by: cooperton

originally posted by: Barcs
a reply to: neoholographic

Great sources there as usual! Totally unbiased and legit science... NOT.

Have you remained a 12 year old child the entirety of your 15 years here on ATS? You never debate science. Get off the field if you can't play.

There was no science posted, bro. Just religious propaganda and seeing the same BS sources harped on time and time again does not warrant me dissecting the same ignorant BS every single time it's brought up by dishonest creationists.

originally posted by: Barcs
There was no science posted, bro.

Yes there was:

"You might call it the Maker’s molecular outboard motor. Its most interesting aspect is that it is attached to and rotated by a tiny, electrical “motor” made of different kinds of protein. Like an electrical motor, the flagellum contains a rod (drive shaft), a hook (universal joint), L- and P-rings (bushings/bearings), S- and M-rings (rotor), and a C-ring and stud (stator). The flagellar filament (propeller) is attached to the flagellar motor via the hook. To function completely, the flagellum requires over 40 different proteins. The electrical power driving the motor is supplied by the voltage difference developed across the cell membrane. This motor is one of the nature’s best molecular machines!

Some scientists have called bacterial flagella the “most efficient machine in the universe” with its self assembly and repair, water-cooled rotary engine, proton motive-force drive system, forward and reverse gears, operating speeds of 6,000 to 17,000 rpm, direction-reversing capability, and hard-wired signal-transduction system with short-term memory."



Why can't you debate the facts? You resort to insulting a generalized group of people rather than conversing about empirical evidence.

originally posted by: cooperton

originally posted by: Barcs
There was no science posted, bro.

Yes there was:

"You might call it the Maker’s molecular outboard motor. Its most interesting aspect is that it is attached to and rotated by a tiny, electrical “motor” made of different kinds of protein. Like an electrical motor, the flagellum contains a rod (drive shaft), a hook (universal joint), L- and P-rings (bushings/bearings), S- and M-rings (rotor), and a C-ring and stud (stator). The flagellar filament (propeller) is attached to the flagellar motor via the hook. To function completely, the flagellum requires over 40 different proteins. The electrical power driving the motor is supplied by the voltage difference developed across the cell membrane. This motor is one of the nature’s best molecular machines!

Some scientists have called bacterial flagella the “most efficient machine in the universe” with its self assembly and repair, water-cooled rotary engine, proton motive-force drive system, forward and reverse gears, operating speeds of 6,000 to 17,000 rpm, direction-reversing capability, and hard-wired signal-transduction system with short-term memory."



Why can't you debate the facts? You resort to insulting a generalized group of people rather than conversing about empirical evidence.

Good points!

Whenever I debate proponents of a natural interpretation of evolution, they fall into a fantasy when they have to concede to these to points:

1. The Theory of Evolution says nothing about the origin of information encoded in the sequences of DNA.

2. The Theory of Evolution says nothing about the origin of Life.

Evolution in a natural sense, just talks about what happens after the encoded information reaches the environment with things like mutations(copying errors) and natural selection. These things have nothing to do with the origin of Life or the origin of information encoded on the sequences of DNA.

This makes the Theory of Evolution and extremely weak theory that explains nothing about the two things that are most important. Life and the origin of information.

A natural interpretation of evolution says, once the encoded information reaches the environment in the form of proteins, some traits will thrive in a population and get reproduced more than other traits, this is Natural Selection. It also says as this information is copied, there will be errors that are not caught by error correction that reach the environment. These are mutations.

Again, neither of these things have anything to do with the origin of encoded information and the machinery needed to decode this information or the origin of Life.

I haven't debated anyone that refutes these facts.

This is clear and obvious evidence of Intelligent Design. Intelligence is the only thing that can encode sequence with information, then build the machinery to decode the coded information and makes sure there's a robust error correcting mechanism to protect the code as it's copied.

It would be like snowflakes encoded with the information to build igloos and snowmen plus the machinery to build igloos and snowmen. This can't occur with anything natural or random. This is the domain of intelligence.

They can't even tell you how sex would work, so traits never going happen.

originally posted by: neoholographic

A natural interpretation of evolution says, once the encoded information reaches the environment in the form of proteins, some traits will thrive in a population and get reproduced more than other traits, this is Natural Selection.

Genes are extremely large. The coding sequence for the Titin protein is over 100,000 base pairs long. Now consider the leaps and bounds that would be necessary to create such a large protein coding sequence through random chance. Think about the countless intermediate steps where the coding sequence would not code for anything useful. According to the theory, it would be selected out before it had the chance to reach such a long sequence length! These types of leaps and bounds show that even with a template encoded information and a 'DNA starter kit', so to speak, it would still be impossible for new viable proteins to arise by random mutations.

Natural selection can only select genes that are already present. As discussed above, mutations are incapable of creating new functioning proteins from scratch. If the random mutations were to miraculously make a new gene from an old gene, then that old gene would no longer exist. How is the organism supposed to function properly without the necessary old gene???

The whole theory is bunk once you start digging into fundamental biology.

originally posted by: Barcs
How does ignorance evolve? Where do dumb people come from?

There is a study (don't press me) that says you cannot be more than 25 IQ points above or below your dumbest parent. I do not even know what that means. I think most people are WILLFULLY ignorant as it gets them a pass on their existence.

The mechanisms of evolution are environmental change and natural selection.


The major factors in environmental influence are microbial demographic and food source for said microbes.

Natural selection is self explanatory.

Ps. Microbes are Zachariah Stichins Annunaki and Joe Rogan machine elves.