Decent Debating

I saw somebody bring debating up on another site. They complained about a opponent that sticks to his opinion and will not budge in any other direction.

Moving off point isn’t debating the core issue isn’t settled. What it does is start you down the road of the 15 fallacies. No debate is ever settled or pleasant when things start sliding that way .

15 logical fallacies you should know before entering a debate.

If you engage someone on the merits of an issue that issue needs to be settled before you can move on.

Intellectual honesty is important if you want to learn from either side of the argument. But what I think is even more important is honesty.

If you’re wrong admit it if you can’t beat the topic with logic or facts. Don’t change the subject own up to it. Then you can move on to the next subject.

If you can’t do that quit the discussion .

When someone deviates from the initial subject it shows a weakness in that person’s argument or a inability to acknowledge someone’s point.

Honest debates on the Internet are endangered if not approaching extinction. It’s aggravating as hell that egos always get in the way.

Mine along with everybody else’s.

Which brings me to my point.

I try to stay on my position and in case you didn’t notice I’m a little stubborn. 🤐

The points I hit a above aggravate the hell out of me.

Which explains why I was such a jerk last week.

My bad i’ll try to watch it. I’ll also try to practice what I preach .


^^^^ honesty and swallowed my ego. That can help you sleep at night.

a reply to: Fallingdown

It is why I like ATS so much..!!!

Most will argue that the art of debate and simple manners and decorum are a thing of the past here on ATS but I would advice those people to step out of the mudpit and maybe look in a mirror once in a while.

I know most members here are capable of delivering a good argument no matter which side of the subject they are on and keep it civil.

To me you are a member of good standing although we hardly ever agree on any subject...lol

Peace

originally posted by: operation mindcrime
a reply to: Fallingdown


I know most members here are capable of delivering a good argument no matter which side of the subject they are on and keep it civil.


Peace

Keep it civil? Isn't that why so many post gets scrubbed by administrators because were so civil?

a reply to: operation mindcrime

step out of the mud pit

Good advice and thanks for the kind words .

a reply to: PhilbertDezineck

That's the part I was saying about looking in the mirror. I got numerous posts removed for being off-topic but never for being uncivil or insulting...

It may surprise some but I believe most members on ATS understand the concept of civilty. This place is still far removed from the twitter comment section....thank God!!

Peace

a reply to: operation mindcrime
How do you know why they get removed? I've had a few removed for violations which is never explained and note generally has a do not respond to this email. I don't know about others but I generally don't remember all my post if I'm posting to different subjects. I don't know if it's for being off topic or if it's for some sarcastic remark or a turn of phrase.

a reply to: Fallingdown

Which explains why I was such a jerk last week.

Last WEEK????

I"m just kidding Mr. Down, just kidding. I like your post above and serves not only to provide a standard of discourse for our forums but presents as well your own ability, not only for introspection but self realization as well.

Myself though, I do not like debates so much. I much prefer discussion. People placing on the table ideas and opinions that may, or , may not, assist others in their own evaluations of not only our current political conundrums but our very existence here at this time and this place.

And speaking of conundrums, one that has fascinated me here for a while now is your choice of avatars. An excellent movie by the way, I have watched it numerous times as Douglas was terrific in it. A good man who believed he was a good man, a man who had followed the rules yet somehow was not happy, a man whose life was crumbling around him as the environment morphed in ways that he was incapable of comprehending.

The only way he could deal with the changing world around him was thought violence. He had pushed away his wife and in the end had that major realization. He said''I'm the bad guy"" What a realization on his part. What a striking moment in any movie.

So I bring this up to you not as a debate issue nor as a way of deriding you but more just to have a discussion as to why you chose a cartoon rendition of a movie character who in the end was not what he supposed himself to be, a champion for righteousness, but rather just one more sorry looser.

a reply to: PhilbertDezineck

I usually remember what I wrote and when I post stuff I can already guess wether or not I can expect a post to be removed because I'm being a wise-ass or trying to score some cheap laughs by going off-topic.

If something I'm passionate about gets removed I tend to not read the "do not reply to this post" part and write an eloquent private message to the moderator that removed my post and always get a friendly reply explaining where I screwed up...

Peace

a reply to: TerryMcGuire

On the AV ...

It’s a quote “ A everyday man at war with the everyday world “ .

It doesn’t have anything to do with his actual actions in the movie . ( you do know he’s the reason McDonald’s now serves breakfast all day don’t you ?) 😁

I look at it as he just had enough with all the BS going on in the world and snapped.

I never snapped.

But some of the things I see happening now do you fill me with disgust and temporary rage .

Like mothers trying to put a seven-year-old boy on hormones for example .

So when you look at it that way it’s a pretty good fit for my personality .

I’ve probably been ask about that 100 times and never felt the need to explain it to anyone before .

Thanks

"Being steadfast (not stubborn) is one thing .
Being steadfast in ignorance is ludicrous ."
Goth.

a reply to: Gothmog

Example ?

Most people don't realize the sheer number of arguments one can be exposed to in 40+ years of life. If they didn't work before, why would that suddenly change without new information outside the argument itself?

a reply to: Fallingdown
Yes but how does one approach a debate with a perceived imbecile? Give them slack (prolong the death) or go for the jugular, a quick merciful end. The William F. Buckley Jr. and Gore Vidal debates should be shown as regular core curriculum in Civil or Government school courses because both debaters were excellent proponents for their point of view.

a reply to: vethumanbeing

Those were epic !

Which reminds me I need to go back and revisit their quotes .

“ The greatest lesson in life is to know that even fools are right sometimes “ ( probably paraphrased )

Winston Churchill

If they’re honest take a whack at it and see if you can get through.

You might get surprised and end up being taught something .

If you dismiss people offhand.

Sooner or later you usually pay for it .

originally posted by: Fallingdown
a reply to: vethumanbeing
Those were epic ! If you dismiss people offhand. Sooner or later you usually pay for it .

I am puzzled about the Soros funded "Antifa" protests that promote the muzzling of free speech; this is a radical change for those liberal in thinking: comrades.

a reply to: vethumanbeing

Soros doesn’t have to fund any protest anymore. The coming generation is in a race to see who can be the most offended . Any word that hurts anyone must be silenced and the kids are in a competition to prove they are the biggest victim .

Pretty soon they’ll declare manuscript, menopause and boycott sexist words or somesuch # .


I’ve said this before but I firmly believe it. In the 80s and the 90s when the under 25 age group grew up most walked away from hard-core liberalism.

But the education system has programmed these kids to only think with their feelings . They have done it so completely I don’t think many will ever mature from their view of the unjust world .

I see a little hope.

In the 80s the economy boomed and they saw the cash.

In the 90s tech took off and they saw the cash.

Trump will create another great economy . Especially when he wins the tariff war .

I’m just not convinced this generations is going to want the cash .

Which will put us on the road to full-scale socialism .

30-year-old’s with a adolescent outlook on life...... buy me, save me , get me, give me

In another 10 years their numbers will triple. If we don’t do something about public education they’ll keep churning them out .

That’s the Democrats end game .

This didn’t just happen it’s not a coincidence.

It was a Mission by the Democratic Party who pushed the liberal philosophy hard for 40 years .


If the half the country that doesn’t vote sits on their ass .

We will be in big trouble .

originally posted by: Fallingdown

Honest debates on the Internet are endangered if not approaching extinction.

Which explains why I was such a jerk last week.

^^^^ honesty and swallowed my ego. That can help you sleep at night.

There is no proof that honest debate isn't extinct in the wild. It only exists in captivity unless you can give me photographic evidence otherwise. Honest debate and rules of engagement are variable. Some debates can leave both sides winning because it isn't a math equation.

I didn't follow the thread closely and just skimmed the aftermath. It seemed to me that there was little disagreement on key points and it degenerated because nobody wanted to just put a coat of spackle over the cracks and move on (I'm looking at you LOL).

I'm glad that you didn't burn the bridges down like many do after less than positive feedback and just coming out and saying you screwed up works. We don't need more angry sockpuppets showing up bitter after a ban. I always appreciate sincere apologies though there isn't anything for me to personally forgive in this case.

a reply to: Ksihkehe

I’m not gonna take all the blame it was going wrong by page 2 .

My position was a distant memory by page 5 .

Then the next 35 pages were just a mess . Lol

No big deal I don’t carry a grudges .

A little cooling off period then put the crap behind you .

I’ve got two things I’m a stickler for on the web .

I can admit when I’m wrong and I do everything I can to be honest .

If I hold on to those I’ll always be all right .

Thank you for the kind words .

This is the second most preposterous thread in recent memory: coming from a poster that has been put on my black-list, because of dishonest debating tactics, and insults.

Haven't seen any new leopard spots...

a reply to: Nothin

Kbye