Michigan becomes first state to ban sales of flavored e-cigarettes

a reply to: billxam

I would hope if it is any it is only the sweet ones, since those are the ones that tend to be ingested by kids. But my hope and reality do not always go the same way.

a reply to: Hefficide
Well, besides the tobacco industry throwing money to stop this, I think you just hit a big ole nail on the head with that.

Because even if they did tax it. People can make their own.
Until they then go after the ingredients themselves, which will open a whole different can of worms.

originally posted by: Oleandra88
a reply to: Blue Shift
a reply to: CriticalStinker

No judgement from me, everybody can do whatever they want to their bodies.
I just meant to say that many maybe think it is totally safe. With everything, it is the dose/amount that makes things toxic.

I do think that it is safer than inhaling smoke of course, I agree with you on all what you wrote (except the french fry, I can not verify).

The entire premise of vaping is the idea that it is safer than cigarettes.

The logic is that vaping is safer because you aren't ingesting smoke. Which is probably true, but nobody has studied what you are ingesting, and evidence is beginning to mount that vaping has it's own set of problems.

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

I was going to edit my last post to include this but am replying instead. It does appear that candy flavored is the target and that the ban will come into place LATER as rules need to drawn up, lawsuits expected, mayhem to ensue.


The Detroit News

“As governor, my No. 1 priority is keeping our kids safe,” Whitmer said in a statement announcing she's ordered the Michigan Department of Health and Human Services to issue emergency rules banning the sale of flavored nicotine vaping products in retail stores and online.

The rules are expected to be filed later this month and will also prohibit “misleading marketing” of vapor products using terms like “clean,” “safe” and “healthy,” according to the administration.

“Right now, companies selling vaping products are using candy flavors to hook children on nicotine and misleading claims to promote the belief that these products are safe,' Whitmer said. "That ends today. Our kids deserve leaders who are going to fight to protect them. These bold steps will finally put an end to these irresponsible and deceptive practices and protect Michiganders’ public health.”

a reply to: Hefficide


If you read into it all the Deaths and hospitalizations are caused by the ones for THC which who knows what they are using to extract the THC now .

"Vape that contained marijuana" That's totally different then vaping , Whole different monster .

The media are just trying to tie it into normal Vaping to make it look bad .

a reply to: AndyFromMichigan

Puff for puff it likely is safer. But it is certainly not safe, can have higher levels of nicotine, and the new high voltage vapes are likely creating formaldehyde that is inhaled. It also seems to make it less likely for people who want to quit to quit, probably because some of the nastiness that causes people to want to quit is gone, so they keep vaping. This could lead to it being more harmful in the long term even though it is less harmful puff for puff.

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: Gargoyle91
Some who switch have increased nicotine consumption than when they smoked.

Which is fine, because nicotine while addictive appears to be a fairly benign chemical which you can only overdose on if you ingest a massive amount of it.

originally posted by: Blue Shift

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: Gargoyle91
Some who switch have increased nicotine consumption than when they smoked.

Which is fine, because nicotine while addictive appears to be a fairly benign chemical which you can only overdose on if you ingest a massive amount of it.

Nicotine is actually pretty poisonous.

0.5–1.0 mg/kg can be a lethal dosage for adult humans

Nicotine Poisoning

a reply to: butcherguy


I tried the Nicotine gum before Now that stuff you can OD on I came close a couple of times . That stuff is bad .

originally posted by: contextual
Big win for the tobacco lobby. Wonder how much moolah they have given to trump and other Republicans?

Dumbest string of words in human history.

Sure. The GOP in a blue state managed to have the DNC governor pull an illegal tactic to promote a progressive nanny state. Sounds plausible.

a reply to: Gargoyle91

People chew it like gum, you can't. If you use it wrong you will get so sick.

a reply to: chiefsmom

Exactly and you really can't go after the ingredients themselves because people make their own vape juice with baking flavor drops which existed for years before vaping did.

originally posted by: butcherguy
Nicotine is actually pretty poisonous.

0.5–1.0 mg/kg can be a lethal dosage for adult humans

Nicotine Poisoning

Yes the lethal dose is generally considered to be 500mg-1000mg. Cigarettes average around 12mg each, with 24 mg being on the high side. But you'll never get all of that nicotine all at one time. Essentially, you would never ever be able to smoke enough cigarettes fast enough for it to kill you. Oh, if you were stupid enough to smoke non-stop as hard as you could for several days, you'd probably get pretty sick, but it wouldn't kill you. As I said, "fairly benign." And it has never been linked to cancer, either.

I know these days smoking is demonized and considered death on a stick, but it's a long-term issue. My mother was never in the greatest shape, but it still took over 60 years of hard smoking (in addition to being old) to kill her.

And if a smoker quits, it doesn't take long to reverse the damage done. I've wondered if maybe it would be a better idea to let children smoke but then make it illegal when a person reaches 40 years old, so they'll have time to heal into a more healthy old age. Children need to reduce stress, too!

originally posted by: Blue Shift

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: Gargoyle91
Some who switch have increased nicotine consumption than when they smoked.

Which is fine, because nicotine while addictive appears to be a fairly benign chemical which you can only overdose on if you ingest a massive amount of it.

That is marijuana, not nicotine. For nicotine a vape bottle could have over 700mg of nicotine. I think the LD50 of Nicotine is 50mg, but really 6-10mg/kg is a more accurate figure. So the average adult would have a high chance of dying from drinking that bottle.

originally posted by: Blue Shift As I said, "fairly benign." And it has never been linked to cancer, either.

Actually it is linked to cancer and is the #1 cause of preventable death and is probably the only substance I can think of that will lead to death when used 'correctly'.

Your belief the damage can be reversed is also incorrect. Your lungs may heal to a degree, but the DNA damage that leads to cancer is not something that heals.

a reply to: CriticalStinker

It makes it marginally more difficult to obtain by setting the age limit at 21. I was up in VA on business a few weeks back and noticed the sign in the gas station when I went to grab some snacks. I don't smoke, haven't in about 15 years, so I don't really have a dog in the fight. However when I sat and thought about it, and realized how easy it was for me at 16 years old to get alcohol, or even more illicit substances for that matter, I have to wonder how much of a deterrent it really is.

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: Blue Shift As I said, "fairly benign." And it has never been linked to cancer, either.

Actually it is linked to cancer and is the #1 cause of preventable death and is probably the only substance I can think of that will lead to death when used 'correctly'.

It's linked to cancer through cigarettes, but it is not carcinogenic in nature. At least that's what the Dana-Farber Cancer Institute says, unless you think they have an agenda to indicate otherwise:
Does Nicotine Cause Cancer?
According to them:
"Nicotine does not, however, cause cancer."

Your belief the damage can be reversed is also incorrect. Your lungs may heal to a degree, but the DNA damage that leads to cancer is not something that heals.

Again, the damage is caused by the associated chemicals and not the nicotine itself. Which is the whole point of vaping. To reduce or eliminate the other junk so little children can enjoy the sweet embrace of nicotine without hurting themselves.

yeah make em go black market where the ingredients and such are considerably more dangerous and unknown.

That will fix everything.

I swear the stupidity of the people pushing stuff like this is just mind boggling.

Its as if they havent watched every single outcome of any sort of prohibition.

a reply to: Blue Shift

While you are correct nicotine itself would not be a carcinogen, I was posting in the context of vaping. Your post was talking about "smoking". Smoking is linked to cancer, while nicotine itself is not. Vaping does not remove associated chemicals, and vaping is linked to cancer as well as other lung disease, and the damage done by vaping will not heal by stopping. Much like if you get a sunburn there may be irreparable DNA damage. The sunburn 'healing' is meaningless if cells with DNA damage do not die like they are supposed to and continue to replicate.

From your preferred source.

The lack of tar doesn’t mean e-cigarettes are entirely free of cancer-causing substances. Studies have found a variety of such chemicals—including formaldehyde, toluene, acetaldehyde, and acrolein—as well as heavy metals such as cadmium, lead, nickel, and nitrosamines in e-cigarette aerosols or vapor. While the levels of these substances are far lower than in cigarette smoke, the long-term effect of exposure to them is unclear.

blog.dana-farber.org...

Numerous carcinogens are found in vaping. That is not to mention other lung diseases other than cancer vaping can also contribute to.

I suppose you could drink it if you wanted it to be cancer free, but I don't think nicotine does well when ingested.

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
I suppose you could drink it if you wanted it to be cancer free, but I don't think nicotine does well when ingested.

Instead of that, would you be happy if the vaping technology improved so that it didn't contain any carcinogens? That's a problem that seems like it would have a solution and still allow people to ingest nicotine to their heart's content.

People are working on it. They're also working hard to filter out pesticides and other spurious chemicals. There are probably some already on the market, but since they can't advertise they're hard to find.