Military Coup underway in Venezuela

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

Keep on throwing the socialist thing out till it sticks 😂

Maybe it's that I'm fiscally responsible and recognize 6+ trillion spent just to make an area worse (Middle East) is a bad idea.

a reply to: CriticalStinker

BTW, here is a little advice from someone who was born under communism and had to swallow the indoctrination people like you in the west claims doesn't happen.

Socialist communist regimes don't only talk # about nations like the U.S., they actively indoctrinate as many of their people to start a conflict against nations like the U.S.

Most Cubans, and Venezuelans would not want to partake in attacking the U.S., but even if just a small percent of people in those countries accept the socialist/communist indoctrination, those people are more than ready to attack the U.S. any way possible.

Venezuela's population is as of 2018 31,028,637. Let's say 20% of the people in Venezuela are die hard socialist/communist and loyal to the regime.
20% of 31,028,637 = 6,205,727.4 Even if there were only 10% of the Venezuelan population who are die hard socialist/communist that would mean 10% of 31,028,637 = 3,102,863.7 And that is only Venezuela. Add to that Cuba, the socialist or communist regimes in other countries, add to that China and Russia whom have stated a conflict with the U.S. is inevitable. They have even pointed out that they will strike first. If you think these are empty promises you are more of a fool than I thought you were.

The goal of socialism, even national socialism, is to eventually dominate the entire world under a socialist regime.

The only way to win such an "inevitable conflict" is to "divide and conquer," to stop the expansion of socialism/communism.

originally posted by: ElectricUniverse
Because they are not the only ones there and I am guessing the majority of the military is disarmed.

I'm not interested in guesses.

originally posted by: ArMaP

I'm not interested in guesses.

Then don't ask questions.

Do you think I am right there in Venezuela and have contact with their military?... I made an educated guess due to the FACT that the Cubans have taught the regimes of Chavez and Maduro what they have done, and learned from using socialist/communist tactics in Cuba...

BTW, I hope you do remember in all other topics that you are not interested in "educated guesses" at all.

originally posted by: ElectricUniverse
Then don't ask questions.

I ask questions to try to get facts. If I want guesses I say so.

I made an educated guess due to the FACT that the Cubans have taught the regimes of Chavez and Maduro what they have done, and learned from using socialist/communist tactics in Cuba...

Guess, yes, educated, I doubt it, as your answer appears to ignore the size of the Venezuelan military.

BTW, I hope you do remember in all other topics that you are not interested in "educated guesses" at all.

It's not a question of remembering, this is how I am.

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

Add to that Cuba, the socialist or communist regimes in other countries, add to that China and Russia whom have stated a conflict with the U.S. is inevitable. They have even pointed out that they will strike first. If you think these are empty promises you are more of a fool than I thought you were.

If that's truly your concern, you should advocate us leaving our theaters in the Middle East, Africa, and not adding Venezuela to the mix.

Bin Ladens objective was pulling the US into a drawn out war to weaken us. Mission accomplished.

You confuse my isolationism with socialism. I'm about as much liberty as we can get. I find it hilarious people blindly support the government with their failed endeavors overseas for "national security". No sovereign nation has attacked us in over a generation.

People are so blinded by the barely repackaged Mccarthyism, that they cheer on spending increases for a mismanaged military while we go further into debt.

Ironically, you're probably closer to socialism than I. I want reformed programs and decreased spending. What you're talking about is added spending for more quagmires.

a reply to: CriticalStinker

I think the threat is all it would take.

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: CriticalStinker

I think the threat is all it would take.

We've through multiple administrations threatened Iran, North Korea, Russia, Syria, and Venezuela (I'm probably missing a few).

Our threats are as effective as our war efforts.

originally posted by: TheSteppenwolf
What if they're pleading for intervention?

If that's what the majority wants, then yes, but done as it should be, to support the people and not to try to change the country to fit a preconceived idea of how it should be.

originally posted by: CriticalStinker
Our threats are as effective as our war efforts.

I remember seeing US navy ships with their guns pointing in the direction of the Portuguese parliament in 1974.

originally posted by: ArMaP

originally posted by: CriticalStinker
Our threats are as effective as our war efforts.

I remember seeing US navy ships with their guns pointing in the direction of the Portuguese parliament in 1974.

Did we assist in the revolution?

a reply to: CriticalStinker

No, it was almost the opposite, the ships were there because the US feared that the revolution would turn Portugal into a communist country, what the Portuguese people wanted was irrelevant.

Some months after there was a communist counter-coup and a fascist counter-coup, this last one partly supported by the US ambassador.

Venezuela is going to happen this time around I do believe....From everything going on then they will end it with Iran depending how things go....The world seems and appears to be going nuts...but I could be wrong.

a reply to: ArMaP

Some months after there was a communist counter-coup and a fascist counter-coup, this last one partly supported by the US ambassador.

We typically tend to support someone favorable to our agenda regardless where they fall in levels of authoritarianism.

We cannot be the bastion of freedom, human rights, and democracy if we go against those very principles.

I view my critism of our track record as patriotic. The worse thing anyone could do for America is act like we've been positive in an area that has caused us and many other countries inconvienice at best (American citizens overpaying for bad reasons results), at worse turmoil (our failed case studies).

Almost everyone in America can agree our government is inept in many capacities, yet nationalism pulls wool over the eyes of our two similar parties that our foreign policy is beneficial to the world community as well as our national security.

originally posted by: ArMaP
I ask questions to try to get facts. If I want guesses I say so.

And it is a FACT that Cuban military and politicians have been teaching and helping Chavez and Maduro use the same tactics used by the communist regime in Cuba...

Those tactics INCLUDE the disarmament of soldiers and police who would not be loyal to the regime of Maduro...

originally posted by: ArMaP
Guess, yes, educated, I doubt it, as your answer appears to ignore the size of the Venezuelan military.

Again, my "educated guess" is comprised of facts you know nothing about. But then again, you even went so far as to insult me because you from "Portugal' think you know better than someone who actually experienced socialism communism like you haven't, and someone who is familiar with the tactics used by the communists in Cuba, which have been taught to the socialists/communists in Venezuela. But hey, since you are a moderator it should be fine for you to insult an ATS member, "because it is your opinion..."

You are ignoring that there have been Venezuelan military personnel who have fled Venezuela... While others who decide/d not to oppress their own people are arrested, or even murdered by the regime like Óscar Alberto Pérez...



WARNING, GRAPHIC VIDEO SHOWING THE LAST MINUTES OF LIFE OF "Óscar Alberto Pérez"!!!



Óscar Alberto Pérez

That happened in January 2018

You are ignoring the FACT that there are Cuban communist forces like "Avispas Negras/Black Wasps" operating in Venezuela...

Could you tell me how you single out these Cuban forces, which are comprised as far as we know of 25,000 Cuban military in Venezuela, from the Venezuelan soldiers?...



Óscar Alberto Pérez is just one of many Venezuelan soldiers who decided to rebel against the socialist dictatorship of Maduro, and he was eventually murdered. He is not alone, but there are still Venezuelan soldiers and police who do continue to follow orders and murder their own people.

originally posted by: ArMaP
It's not a question of remembering, this is how I am.

Who you are is someone who decides to ignore the experience of others, and claims that "they are not making educated guesses" in your attempt at insulting others who disagree with you. That's who you are.

originally posted by: ArMaP

I remember seeing US navy ships with their guns pointing in the direction of the Portuguese parliament in 1974.

And for that you want to make false claims about what is happening in Venezuela...

originally posted by: CriticalStinker
...
No sovereign nation has attacked us in over a generation.
...

Why do you think that is?... Because the "threat of socialism and communism never existed", or because the U.S. had helped stop the expansion of socialism/communism?...

a reply to: ArMaP

BTW, perhaps it would help you if you put your thinking cap for a moment. If the dictatorship of Maduro had the loyalty of all their fit for duty armed forces, which are supposedly 128,000, then why in the world do they need 20,000 Cuban forces?... If the majority of the regular people were okay withe what is happening in Venezuela, why do they need to arm 400,000 Chavistas who are civilians?...

originally posted by: ElectricUniverse

originally posted by: CriticalStinker
...
No sovereign nation has attacked us in over a generation.
...

Why do you think that is?... Because the "threat of socialism and communism never existed", or because the U.S. had helped stop the expansion of socialism/communism?...

If you're looking for a black and white answer the subject is far too nuanced to do that.

But I'm confused by your stance. You seem to be set stopping Venezuela to stop the spread of socialism and hinder Chinese and Russian efforts. So I'm sure you know Russia has loans leveraged on 49%~ of Citgo, the US subsidiary of PDVSA. Russia (Rosneft) is currently trying to swap that collateral stake for oil reserves.

Humor me for a minute. Is it possible our endeavors would benefit the very entity we are trying to combat?

Is this the first instance we play into the hand of our "opposition"?

originally posted by: CriticalStinker

originally posted by: ElectricUniverse

originally posted by: CriticalStinker
...
No sovereign nation has attacked us in over a generation.
...

Why do you think that is?... Because the "threat of socialism and communism never existed", or because the U.S. had helped stop the expansion of socialism/communism?...

If you're looking for a black and white answer the subject is far too nuanced to do that.

But I'm confused by your stance. You seem to be set stopping Venezuela to stop the spread of socialism and hamper Chinese and Russian efforts. So I'm sure you know Russia has loans leveraged on 49%~ of Citgo, the US subsidiary of PDVSA. Russia (Rosneft) is currently trying to swap that collateral stake for oil reserves.

Humor me for a minute. Is it possible our endeavors would benefit the very entity we are trying to combat?

Is this the first instance we play into the hand of our "opposition"?

Nuance can be a bitch or a way forward.

Do your leaders get it?