US repeatedly defeated in high end wargames

a reply to: AtlasHawk

Yo do realize we have debunked that claim numerous times here right? The ONLY reason the stealth fighter was downed was it flew the same route every day. There was no second shot down at all. the other plane was destroyed on a take off and not due to any shooting down.

a reply to: yuppa

From what I’ve read on the F117 going down . Is that the Yugoslavian army got information on strike plan. They moved a battery of Sams to the target area and caught it with it’s bombay doors open when it was far less stealthy .

That info is from quite a while back. I’m not entirely sure if it has been confirmed .

a reply to: Fallingdown

They watched the aircraft using the same ingress points night after night. The battery commander used carts and his men to move the battery under the flight path so there wouldn't be evidence of it moving, then used spotters at the base to get launch times, and very short bursts of the radar to watch for incoming aircraft.

a reply to: [post=24242656]Zaphod58[/post

Late 2017 Trump ordered the missile stockpiles quadrupled. Also development of the new ship missile, LRASM, harpoon replacment, SM3 deployments, THADD placement and reaction force for forward placement, and according to the intel stolen by the CHICOMS a new sub torpedo/missile to be put in by 2020. Had an admiral and air force general come out and state that extended lethality (increase standoff) is going to be a primary mission. 1000 mile howitzers cannons to be put in place around s. china sea .... we are reacting, a bit late though.

a reply to: moyeti

the sea dragon

the conventional arms race has diminishing returns, The new 'arms race' has been in cyberspace and electronic attack/defence/EW.

mostly everyone's newer generations of weapons rely heavily on computers, fast data links and satellites and if you can take one link out of that chain with cyber war tactics your opponent's smart weapons will become almost useless. Also having the ability to disrupt the civilian manufacturing infrastructure with various cyber attacks from shutting the water and power off to attacking power generation sites.

If China attacked the US it would most likely start with cyber attacks to the the populus followed by ASAT operations to blind and deafen the military(temporarily) and at the same time or soon after attack the US forces in range of their coastal and border forces and depending on the ultimate goal an EMP style attack on the mainland and finally invasion(depending on how fast our forces could rebound).

im confident that scenario would require China to catch the US by such surprise it is almost impossible, ALMOST.

i know there is a back up satellite communication system on top in silos ready to go but there would still be mass blackouts for the military. taking out the GPS sats seem very hard and i wonder if our GPS systems could just dial in to Russia's system(if china attacked).

it would be interesting to see who came to our defence if China attacked the US mainland.

“Your Source “ outcomes of global war games are for the upper military brass of the pentagon ! Zero civilians like yourself or the person that wrote the artical ( I believe we have a weak military) have any access to real war game results! Come on ! Let’s be real and move past bogus low hanging fruit like that article ! You know it’s a week article by a almost non existent Internet source and that is why you added “ Your Sources “ to truss up this in reality a true situation, but one that is a made up delivery system !! You look ignorant when things like this are passed along ! I’ve never heard one Government claim they got their butts handed to them in a computer generated mock world war ! It would be just the opposite ! Now let’s move on from the bs and look at the real problem without latent delivery methods ! Yes I agree 100% that the USA has become weak and not respected ! That’s the only part of your thread that matters ! The other fluff is there by the article writer and yourself to lay legitimacy to a subject that needs zero legitimacy here on ATS . You actually create compassion which is a prime objective ingredient in unsound thought processes ! Long way around Harvey’s Barn to tell you your right and very off based on how military info is handled and any subjective or pragmatic human will laugh at your article that you attached to your thread and backed it up by unprovable “ Your Source “ I’m not mean! I’m helping you so that in your next post you don’t create unwarranted fervor on a forum that already has very excited people that need no help in running off the rails with partial truths !

a reply to: penroc3

Don't you think the most likely conventional scenarios they play out are limited regional theatres involving for instance pacific assets and bases? Or an European theatre with allied and US assets based there?

Some RISK game of Chinese troops landing on the US coast seems pretty unlikely, after all, and would quickly potentially escalate into a nuclear exchange. At which point who wins the conventional war is merely a statistic.

I mean, who wants to invade a smoldering wasteland of nuclear waste, after all?

one Great thing about the USA ! Yes China could emp or cyber attack us , but they would never nuke us , because they would need our land and water if they would win a war ! They would never invade the USA , because satalites are not needed for my Noveske AR 15 to work ! There are over 300 million guns in America ! Detroit could chew up a regiment of Chinese by itself ! You think it’s hard to win a war in the Middle East by door to door warfare ! Come to Chicago and try to invade it ! Good luck ! Americans are cowboys and Japan and Russia knew it ! They never trained for a USA 🇺🇸 invasion , because of the American Gun owners ! Japan during ww2 said there is a gun behind every blade of grass ! and knew a mainland invasion! Give it time though the feminist progressives will not rest until China and Russia invade us ! As long as boys are raised to be concerned about their internal spiritual vaginas, lattes and Elexa conversations we will be invaded by men !

a reply to: beetee


it's not impossible just very very unlikely, it would be very messy if we came to blows.

Subs make the chance of any large invasion of the US mainland HIGHLY unlikely, i think your right about any conventional war that started to go bad for the US and its allies might very well see the use of tactical theater level nuclear weapons useful or necessary to stop advancing forces.

NK will likely be the place such a war will start, or chinese 'island' bases.

In the case of a war starting over NK i 100% believe nuclear and maybe even chemical weapons will be used, and by the US. NK has such a large invasion force as well as the artillery right on the border we would have to use such weapons to stop them. China has already said if ANYONE'S nuclear fallout gets to China's mainland it will be seen as an act of war. They also have recently started to shore up its forces on that border.

in the first Korean war China's ground forces almost broke the US lines. Nuclear weapons were almost used that time so it's hard to imagine they are not included in the game plan if a new one kicked off.

im 100% sure the US has some very nasty tricks up its sleeves for any real threats to the mainland/way of life.

a reply to: Zaphod58

Thanks

That’s why I didn’t state it as fact.

I hate to be wrong . Lol

The scenarios in question don't involve an invasion of the US. Russia and China would require a major overhaul and increase to their logistical systems to be able to even consider something along those lines. The primary scenarios talked about in the article were the Baltic and Taiwan, with the Baltic spreading into Europe.

a reply to: Zaphod58

im not sure where i head this

N.Korea(or china) didnt have enough rifles that is the man in front of you got shot you would run out there to fill his spot and had to pick up his gun because the rear guy wasn't issued one.


most likely BS but a funny situation to think about

a reply to: Zaphod58

China, maybe. Russia, LOL, no. Russia's top two naval vessel's are over 30 years old, each. Their once formidable naval force is in shambles. Their ability to project air power is basically zero (when compared to the US). Their military personnel are poorly trained. Nothing about russia (other than their nukes) is scary.

ETA: Just wanted to provide a real world example of the complete disarray of the russian air force. The russians are hoping to get two (yes, just two of them) SU-57 fighter, which they claim can keep pace with the F-35 (doubtful), by the end of 2020. Right now the US has ~500 F35's in service with another two thousand on the way in the next few years. That's without counting all of the F-22's. All these years of training and operation time is an advantage that can't be made up.

That’s why we will nuke the planet the next time we goto war or we are invaded on our soil. That is actually a strategy. The days of conventional world war is over. That is why the focus is on space....

Make no mistake if an attack is made on USA homeland nukes will be launched. Those in denial of such a thing are not familiar with the United States armed forces doctrine..

Sad to hear about the simulation. I wonder thou if that is being reactionary or proactionary in the scenario.

If surprise is involved then I am not surprised, I am sure the soviets and the Chinese have the same problems.

a reply to: Dfairlite

No we don't have 500. The 500th center fuselage section was shipped, but that number includes all the foreign examples as well as ours.

The F-35 will rule the airspace, but as pointed out, it has to get airborne to do it. Scoff if you want, but Russia has been improving their electronics fast, and has always been a leader in missile tech.

originally posted by: Zaphod58
In a fight in the Baltic or Pacific, the US forces would be facing quick defeat. One of the biggest causes is the complete lack of defenses at US bases. There's a single Patriot battery in Germany that would go to Ramstein in the event of a European war. There are 58 Brigade Combat Teams, plus various airbases that have minimal defenses against aircraft and missiles.

US forces in Europe today were never meant to be the only military force. They are simply there to supplement European forces. Much of the military hardware and armored divisions came back stateside after the fall of the Soviet Union. I also think its interesting that Russia is being pumped up as some serious military threat. They arent.

Their airforce is very limited in terms of capable aircraft and the logistical support theyed face is a nightmare. Their Navy is a joke, tho they are introducing new very quite submarines. However, their navy would be crushed by the USN. Their army, is filled with poorly trained conscripts.

As for China, theyre an even bigger mess. Most of the equipment in this countries is limited. And thats just the good #. China for their part has more money than Russia, and they are trying...but they have decades to go before they can truly match the US...if ever. The fact they havent taken Tiawan by force is telling as to just how lethal their military actually is (or isnt).

Before you start with the "this is just an excuse for more money" this lines up exactly with what I've heard for the last couple of years from my own sources. The Pentagon is largely clueless about cyberwarfare and defending against it, and in many other areas, complacency set in pretty hard. It's going to take a radical change at the Pentagon to fix things.

taskandpurpose.com...

I dont think that is a fair statement. Cyberwarfare is fairly new thing. However, I fail to see why we should think near pear adversaries are ahead, or that the US is behind. We dont truly know these things, and wont until the time actually comes. The US military budget is enormous. nearly $100 billion goes into Research and development alone. Throw in another $100 billion or more for the black budget...

originally posted by: penroc3
a reply to: beetee
In the case of a war starting over NK i 100% believe nuclear and maybe even chemical weapons will be used, and by the US. NK has such a large invasion force as well as the artillery right on the border we would have to use such weapons to stop them. China has already said if ANYONE'S nuclear fallout gets to China's mainland it will be seen as an act of war. They also have recently started to shore up its forces on that border.

That #show would be over before the US could commit ground troops not already stationed in Korea.
This isnt the Cold War anymore, the South Korean Army is more than capable of stopping a North Korean advance. Most likley China would then invade the North in order to preserve buffer zone on the peninsuala. Neither South Korea nor the US will be inclined to press the issue and advance on Pyongyang and face a ground war against China. In fact they'd be more than happy to hand the North Korean Problem over to China. Let them deal with it, feed 25 million in a destroyed country and establish another puppet regime.

a reply to: semperfoo

Of course they aren't meant to be the only ones there, but none of the local forces has an abundance of missile or antiaircraft defenses, so the point applies to them as well.

The biggest danger in both Russia and China is underestimating them. They might not have a military up to our standards, but our standards are slipping fast. Our readiness rates are in the toilet, and flying hours are dropping, resulting in more accidents, resulting in fewer available aircraft, resulting in fewer flying hours.....

Russian doctrine has always heavily favored a massive cruise missile barrage. Without defenses to stop them our airfields would be degraded, resulting in fewer aircraft getting airborne to defend against attacks.

China, even if they can't meet us toe to toe in a stand up fight, has all the advantage in a fight for Taiwan. Even if they don't try to knock out Guam, that's a long flight for fighter pilots knowing they're facing a fight at the end of it. They have to refuel close in, and will have very limited time on station. Chinese fighters will have a short flight, and if they can knock our tankers back, will make things harder for us.

As for the cyber battlefield, we have holes in our networks you can drive a truck through. Network security hasn't been high on anyones list, and it shows when contractors go in to try to close those holes.

The "rah rah, we're America" attitude is causing us huge problems. We spend millions on R&D, only to see programs canceled before going into production, a completely screwed procurement system cut programs short, or programs not work as promised.

YOU ARE ALL WATCHING TOO MUCH RT NEWS.

I mean, how gullible could you possibly be? Being recently retired after 25 years active, I think I know capabilities from being stationed in the hot zones. China cannot, CANNOT, beat us in any conventional war.

Russia is a complete joke. And they know it. Everyone knows it. However, the mind share game seems to be pretty important. Maybe the US should show their strategies and secret weapons. (That was a joke)

Seriously, you guys are so impressively gullible. I'm not trying to be mean. But you need a wake up call like this post.
We are FAR too organized and capable.

Only a massive and unforeseen invasion, aka larger than Pearl Harbor, could unseat us.
And our cyber warfare, very secretive, is massively beyond the capabilities of any foreign state, and by a very large margin.

Reading fake news and watching RT News clips about how we lose in matchups makes you extremely gullible.

Do you actually think the US would publish any Classified answers to any war games? Wake up and think.

a reply to: Zaphod58

The point was, russia will have two planes to train on while we approach 1,000. But these scenarios are not real world anyway so I'm not sure why anyone is worried about them. The premise is that the US has to fight for superiority in multiple theaters at once. That's simply not the case and won't be in the next decade, or the foreseeable future as long as our government keeps military a high priority.