Here is what Happens in a Socialist Economy.

originally posted by: ClovenSky
a reply to: ElectricUniverse

Thank you for the response. Peace to you and here is to hoping we can reach a compromise before it is too late.

Blessings for your peacemaking.
You are not alone, and your good posts are not unseen.
Peace.

originally posted by: ElectricUniverse

originally posted by: Nothin

You don't have 'truth', you have opinion.

Wrong, I have facts from experience and from the millions of Cubans and Venezuelans who disagree with you.

originally posted by: Nothin
You don't know anything about me, or my circumstances.

Whatever your "circumstances" you are better off than most people living under socialism, and/or communism.

originally posted by: Nothin
You are merely railing-on about your opinions.

Wrong again, those "railing-on about their opinions" are people like you who haven't lived under socialism or communism.

originally posted by: Nothin
You seem to have gone from communism to Capitalism, and somehow feel to need to crap all over anyone whom doesn't agree with you.

You are living better than most people under socialism and communism, but you want do dismiss and ignored those who actually have experienced socialism and/or communism.

originally posted by: Nothin
How far along are you to bringing all of your poor family to come and rejoice in your newfound riches?

Democrats made sure that Cubans have no chance to escape from the dictatorship anymore thanks to Bill Clinton who introduced "wet feet/dry feet" meanwhile he used the U.S. Coast Guard (military) to enforce immigration laws, and Obama who shut down "wet feet/dry feet" which was the last policy that allowed Cubans to seek asylum in the U.S.

Sorry, but am not interested in divisive politics.

Perhaps you should learn the difference between 'truth', and opinion.
Until then: rage-on.

originally posted by: olaru12

Can you even see your disconnect? Even "left Wingers" own businesses, hire employees or are employed by corporation who's sole purpose is to make a profit for the stock holders in a capitalistic system. The US isn't Cuba or Venezuela and never will be....give it a rest, amigo.

I can see "your disconnect." What did AOC do about another "left-winger" who owns Amazon?... What happened to all those jobs that thanks to AOC will not be available in New York?

What is happening about the poverty rate in states/cities/regions, like silicone valley in California, Detroit in Illinois, etc, controlled by Liberals/democrats/socialists?

originally posted by: Nothin

Sorry, but am not interested in divisive politics.

Perhaps you should learn the difference between 'truth', and opinion.
Until then: rage-on.

Then don't respond. It is you who has no idea what the difference is between "truth and opinion."

Someone like you who never lived under socialism or communism has "opinions."

Someone like me who actually lived under a socialist economy, and a communist regime has "truth" because i experienced what you have not.

You don't need to respond, but stop trying to claim that you have the truth and i have opinions when you haven't experienced socialism or communism like I have.

It seems that if you work hard and take financial or personal risk, you should make more than a person who is going to work from nine to five at McDs. Many business owners have all their money tied up in the business, they will lose everything if we go to socialism. Remember the USSR, that was a socialist government, the people did not have a good life, it doesn't work on a large scale.

a reply to: rickymouse

Socialism or communism do not work and will never work.

Only if humans were replaced with robots that will not need food, clothes, individuality, individual rights, etc, only then will such systems work.

1963 Trabant 601 www.cargurus.com...

1990 Trabant 601 www.carthrottle.com...

That is what socialism gets you. No innovation. No inspiration. No expression. Just the same crap car built year after year for 27 years. And you buy it because that’s what there is to buy.

originally posted by: Ahabstar
1963 Trabant 601 www.cargurus.com...

1990 Trabant 601 www.carthrottle.com...

That is what socialism gets you. No innovation. No inspiration. No expression. Just the same crap car built year after year for 27 years. And you buy it because that’s what there is to buy.

Or, like Cuba, you can cling to the American made cars you bought before the embargo and just keep them running for 50 years.

originally posted by: ElectricUniverse

originally posted by: Nothin

Sorry, but am not interested in divisive politics.

Perhaps you should learn the difference between 'truth', and opinion.
Until then: rage-on.

Then don't respond. It is you who has no idea what the difference is between "truth and opinion."

Someone like you who never lived under socialism or communism has "opinions."

Someone like me who actually lived under a socialist economy, and a communist regime has "truth" because i experienced what you have not.

You don't need to respond, but stop trying to claim that you have the truth and i have opinions when you haven't experienced socialism or communism like I have.

Ok.
You're awesome, and you ROCK!!!!

Goodnight.

originally posted by: ClovenSky
Is there no middle ground here? Is there no way to assure some type of freedom of enterprise with self determination while still maintaining morals.

Maybe if our fiat money wasn't becoming worth less and less every passing year due to 0s & 1s being created out of thin air, people could afford health care out of pocket. Maybe the push for socialism is because people are feeling so helpless anymore that they can't ever imagine attaining self sufficiency on their own.

What if it is our unbridled capitalism that is leading directly to socialism?

Capitalism is not a system of greed but a system of voluntary choice. Voluntary choice, especially in dealing with others, requires responsibility and a conscience. Morality is where we are lacking. Most of us won’t take advantage of others so long as we have a moral conscience, and that’s why we need to maximize access to choice: so that moral consciences can thrive.

originally posted by: ClovenSky
So we supposedly have the greatest system in the world, free markets / capitalism. If we have the greatest system in the world, why are there so many people looking towards socialism? Is it simple education? Is it self hate or something like a sadist? We have it so good today that people are looking for a little challenge?

If free markets / capitalism are so good, why are so many people upset and looking for change?

It's because they see problems we have and ascribe them to capitalism, since they're told that's the system under which we live. What they are not told is that most of the problems we have are due to socialism and facism which have crept into our economic processes. Our education system has become fully socialized. Our energy, food, amd finance sectors are fully under facist control, meaning government amd corporations are working together cozily for the prifit of the elites.

what is China classified as technically?

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

And if your not aware the USSA is a socialist society,majority either work for government or armed services,we have agency's that regulate how many times you can scratch your ass each day,you can show your flash cards or blow smoke where you feel appropriate but facts are facts,why after Venezuela they think for themselves

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

You are sooooooooooooooo close...

The first thing that every nation which has embraced socialism does is to take control of all the means of production...

It's not about "socialism." It's about power. It's not about "capitalism," because EVERY economic system is "capitalist" to the extent that "capital" is managed and controlled. Socialism, fascism, totalitarianism, Marxism, communism -- whatever!!! If government controls the "capital," then the people are screwed.

FREE MARKET capitalism is the ONLY option for a FREE people.

If you try really really hard, I'll bet you could see how our current CRONY capitalist system is screwing us all too, in pretty much the same ways, just not as glaringly obvious.... yet.

Crying about socialism (or any other "ism" except free market capitalism) means nothing. In fact, it's worse than nothing, because by focusing on socialism you effectively divert much needed attention away from the gross violations of our free market capitalism, and thus prevent any efforts to fix our own problems.

Yeah, socialism sucks because as soon as the critters take control of the means of making a living, then the PTB decide who the winners and losers will be. And THEY won't be the losers.

The only solution is to return to a true free market system, where folks are free to make a living from the bounty of the earth without government interference... where folks are empowered with the tools and resources they need to be independent, resourceful, and self-sufficient.

That is the ONLY WAY to keep the economic wolves at bay, because as long as there are people in need without the resources to do better, there will be critters in government to exploit them to the detriment of us all.

originally posted by: ClovenSky
So we supposedly have the greatest system in the world, free markets / capitalism. If we have the greatest system in the world, why are there so many people looking towards socialism? Is it simple education? Is it self hate or something like a sadist? We have it so good today that people are looking for a little challenge?

If free markets / capitalism are so good, why are so many people upset and looking for change?

No. We don't have that system. We have a heavily tampered with system. It's not free market, but it's not socialist either. It's something else.

originally posted by: strongfp
a reply to: Breakthestreak

That's exactly what Marx proposes!

Marx is only seen as communist because he was a paid propagandist for a commune.

His philosophies literally take on social and capital means of production. People should not work as slaves, yet should not be bound to the means of production for other people, he had a vision, and it's hard to dispute, but because it's more of a socialist vision people lose their minds over it.

No. His vision is not hard to dispute.

His vision discounts simple human nature. He envisions a society where no one wants more or better for themselves, but all are perfectly content to have only as much as everyone else decides they need and only as as much as everyone else no matter what they do or how hard they work.

In a society of people who are competitive and always have been, this will not work out very well. In a society of people who are individuals who have their aims and needs and desires, this will not work out very well. Not everyone wants exactly the same things as his neighbors in exactly the same quantities. Some want different things and all will want them in different amounts.

Marx seems to have discounted that entirely from his equation in favor of thinking everyone would be happy with the same box house or apartment, eating the same amounts of the same foods, getting the same of everything, and working industriously to see everyone else got it forever.

The idea of saying “socialism is this, and capitalism is this” is pretty much like saying “Christianity is this, and Buddhism is this.” Superfluous because each is practiced completely differently in every single place. In the us people point out single payer medicine and tax funded education as examples of socialism, while in Europe they’re considered part of their capitalism.

At any rate, the market here is anything but free. It’s controlled from the ground up, in every single aspect. From fixed wages to fixed prices, from licensing needed for every single thing, to barriers to entry and competition. Even the production of the money is fixed and manipulated to benefit certain groups. Our whole system and government are arranged to keep the poor masses away from the actual decision making process, and to protect the massively wealthy from any real competition. The wealthy have socialism for them, and it keeps them forever rich and forever in power. And they seem to do fine in innovation with it despite the arguments to the contrary. However they then force lassez faire capitalism onto us and tell us how good it is.

a reply to: pexx421

So then we have socialism and *it's not working*. Why do you want more? Or do you only want the "free stuff" version which also doesn't work?

How about we remove socialism since none of its iterations have ever ended up working out very well? Period. Stop. End of sentence?

And I'm sure you'll once again assure us all that it just hasn't been tried yet. And you may deny that and tell me yet again that I just don't understand and then refuse to explain exactly what you mean and throw out and bunch of names as if that explains everything.

a reply to: ketsuko

See, I prefer to discuss things with people who haven’t made up their minds already that they know everything and anyone who disagrees is some kind of idiot. Otherwise it’s like arguing with a zealot, and I don’t like to waste my time that much.