Homeschoolers Outraged at Iowa Bill That Treats Them All Like Criminals Mand HomeInspections

originally posted by: AProudLefty
a reply to: strongfp

She brought her homework to work and I got a chance to look through her 'history' text book. It was some BS Christian history 'variation' yes, it said variation on it

Things like this is probably why some are upset with the bill, other than the possibility of the environments being unsuitable for the students.

So basically, the old saw of if you have nothing to hide, then you shouldn't be upset?

How about, innocent until proven guilty? This is my private home, and there is an amendment here against unreasonable search and seizure. At what point are my children considered property of the state such that this unreasonable search is warranted without probable cause?

PS - Were you homeschooled? I ask because you are lacking subject/verb agreement. Things is a plural subject and you paired it with singular verb is. I guess maybe your parents should have been inspected. If you weren't homeschooled, you either did not pay attention that day in class or did not get your money's worth from your free public education.

And just in case you are wondering, the implication that people only homeschool to keep their kids dumb mightily offends me in the face of clear incompetence from our public education apparatus.

a reply to: DBCowboy

Bingo!

The potential law's viewpoint is that parents cannot be trusted with the children they have borne and raised.

Don't answer the door. The school district doesn't t have police power, unless they get a warrant. Again, probable cause. And that's exactly what frustrates them: they don't get daily custody of your kids, so they can never develop probable cause.

a reply to: Graysen

The potential law's viewpoint is that parents cannot be trusted with the children they have borne and raised.

Sadly ,there are some parents who can’t be trusted with their kids. Remember the story of the family with many children who they were holding captive in their home. These children were chained and handcuffed to their beds. They were also allegedly ‘homeschooled’.

I think the parents who are doing a good job of homeschooling won’t mind an occasional visit from a government watch employee.
Maybe these employees will help children who are actually being neglected or abused.

Ah yes the old " better make sure parents are passing on the government approved propaganda".

With the track record of public school, more parents should be encouraged to home school their children so as to stand a better chance for success in the backwards system we endure.

I'm glad that there's no federal command regarding homeschool. Which is good because the states should be laboratories of liberty, let each one find its own best solution.

Two states on the other end of the spectrum are Oklahoma and Texas.

The OK dept of Education has had a website with instructions and advice for homeschoolers. I remember being shocked to read them say that "11 hours of proper homeschool is equal to 30 hours of public school." They explained that by the time you take out time to get to your locker and to the next class, irrelevant student assemblies, etc., that the average PS student was only getting about 11 hours of instruction per week anyway!

In Texas you had to keep records of your homeschool. Actually run it like a private school with only your handful of pupils. You had to track the kid's academic progress in all subjects, but especially the state mandated ones. The CPS could demand to inspect your records (once a year if they wanted), but couldn't demand access to your child unless they were acting on a specific complaint, and got a warrant, just like the real police.

In other (eastern/northern/yankee) states its like you're borrowing your children back from the state, who doesn't really trust you to know what to do with them, regardless of what degrees you and your spouse possess. Those government believe that if you're teaching on the school district's payroll, you can do no wrong; off of it, and you can do no right.

originally posted by: Sheye


Sadly ,there are some parents who can’t be trusted with their kids. Remember the story of the family with many children who they were holding captive in their home. These children were chained and handcuffed to their beds. They were also allegedly ‘homeschooled’.

That's true; some parents can't be trusted.

On the other hand. Some public school teachers cannot be trusted. Statutory rape and sexual assault of children by teachers is a constant of the evening news.

Is the state checking up on them????

[edit to add: actually, the reason we started homeschooling in the first place was because the elementary school LOST my child. As in couldn't find him or tell what adult he was with. alone with. That's all I'll ever say on ATS]

I think the parents who are doing a good job of homeschooling won’t mind an occasional visit from a government watch employee.

You couldn't be more wrong.

I Mind the # out of it.

I am not their subordinate. I am their equal. I have more credentials than most of them, and have been a commissioned peace officer, with a more rigorous background screening than theirs. I am their equal. I don' have to prove that I'm an adequate parent. They need to prove that they are an adequate civil servant.

originally posted by: Lumenari


ALL public school children right now are taught a different version of history... the liberal one. Whitewashed completely.

Then when you start looking at literacy rates of public school "survivors" and their new viewpoint on the world you realize that it's just an indoctrination camp for the left.

I get why you want indoctrination camps as opposed to parents teaching their kids critical thinking skills... it doesn't help your cause at all.

Not sure where you got your education but I was taught the true history, slavery, constitution, attempted annihilation of an indigenous group among-st other things.

So what is white washed and what part of history is being taught that is not right?

a reply to: Graysen

You make some valid points Graysen and I understand your anger at this.

At least you admit there are some parents who are not doing a great job of homeschooling, but I agree that the public school system isn’t doing a great job either.

originally posted by: Sheye
a reply to: Graysen

You make some valid points Graysen and I understand your anger at this.

At least you admit there are some parents who are not doing a great job of homeschooling, but I agree that the public school system isn’t doing a great job either.

It goes a lot further than that. State child protective services have no oversight. I mean none. There was a case in New Mexico where a CPS officer died. The next worker picked up the casebook, and it turned out to be a complete fabrication. Like, 35 cases. Faked field notes, faked agreements with parents, fabricated testimony in family court, the works. Hadn't actually been in the field in years. In most states, Adult protective services and child services offer no appeals process. None. There is literally no recourse, other than civil court. And the judge there knows protective services, but you, they never heard of.

Public School enforcement often works the same way. Depending on the state, a school may get an extra $20,000 per student that they can coerce into attending their school. And the homeschool kids are usually model students once they get into public school, so they aren't any extra trouble. Just scare the crap out of their parents and take the federal cheese.

Basically, there is very little that government does, that private citizens cannot do for themselves, better.

a reply to: strongfp
Well great, you knew 1 home schooled person and apparently that’s how ALL home school children are. Nice broad brush.

We started homenschooling 4 years ago, first year was a crap shoot because we didn’t really know what we were doing to be honest. The last 3 years our kids have consistently scored in the top 5% in the bi-annual required state testing per our program. They have extra curricular activities to do through local schools and do 1/4 of the “school time” than a public school kid. My children have learned more about everything in one year of home school than a public school teaches in middle school.Our public school system was designed around manufacturing jobs and it’s not an effective way to teach anymore, look into it because I’m not spending my time to educate others on this.

Note: our program is free but I pay local taxes to the public schools, I pay state taxes to all schools so it ain’t truly free.

a reply to: Graysen
Wow !!

Thanks for informing me and showing me the broader picture.

No wonder you’re po’d.

Time for parents to have the control over their children’s education . Your children are fortunate to have the smart and caring parents that they do.

originally posted by: strongfp
a reply to: ketsuko

yea sure.

my point stands, people can get into post secondary and still be brain washed through over subjects that have an impact on their future lives.

Your hypocrisy in this statement is astounding.

Your mocking an ALLEGED incident of a "manipulation of curriculum" to include something christian (btw I believe there was some christian teachings but not to the level your claiming ) and that is bad.

but many here and a google search can provide PROOF of indoctrination of liberal causes at expense of education (example heather has two mommies and gender fluidity at kindergarten level ) and your ok with that because it isnt against your blatant anti christian bias.

that sir is what is called HYPOCRISY .

what you fail to mention (deliberately i suspect) is that test scores , college entrance exams, and college preparedness shows home schooled children far exceed those of most general public education.

in short your beef as it were is you dont like home school and christian (or religious biased) schooling .

just be honest about it

Scrounger

a reply to: scrounger

See I'm not the one bringing the political spectrum into this, conservative has different uses for it's definition you know. I was pointing out that home schooling has it's dangers, just like how for some reason the public school systems are these liberal brain washing factories, where kids go in one end and come out as far left SJWs.

I don't know how it is in the states, but last time I checked people VOTE for their curriculum, so don't sit there and say there's this back alley meeting of liberal teachers and school board members burning right wing leaning books and revising their own. The curriculum is on the voter, not the teachers or the kids.

Just look what is or happened in Texas, Christian communities tried to lobby and muscle their way into the science curriculum to include God and creationism into the science classroom, and it almost got in! If it wasn't for the awareness and campaigning AGAINST, the massive Christian community would have won.

originally posted by: TheLead
a reply to: strongfp

Not saying that's right, but out of curiosity how were they at their job?

She was alright. Was a while ago, seemed more interested in her school work and wanting to leave to hang out with friends then the job tho. Mind you, she was like 16- 17. Expected.

I was home schooled. Didn't like it at the time but looking back, I'm thankful that I did. I love telling people and seeing their reactions. Not all of us are socially awkward, but I definitely knew some who were although they are all successful adults now. I don't think it's a bad thing to have periodic checks just to make sure the kids are learning and positively developing. Some parents are lazy and the kids suffer academically. My mom was strict as f#@@.

Yeah, homeschooling parents need to really fight back on this potential law, just on principle, this is Big Brother overreach to the extreme ! There are already laws on the books to investigate child abuse and neglect if suspected, homeschooling your children is not probable cause to effectively send people into your home checking for " violations " of some sort. In most cases parents that are making it work to home-school are great parents, it's not easy from what I've heard, but very rewarding when they watch their kids thrive.

I think in most cases the home school kids do take tests at their local public school and can participate in some school activities, sports, etc. , which is probably the best of both worlds and the kids get to socialize with other kids. There's no need for further monitoring of the kids if they show up and do well on the required tests.

a reply to: strongfp

hmm your quote "im not bringing the political spectrum into this"
but you brought the RELIGIOUS spectrum into it.
I showed how your religious comment is related and in direct opposite of political since conservatives are called regularly "religious based".
Or more basic conservative vs liberal VALUES.
in short you willnot own up to your bias so you want to play word deflection games card.

your bias to anything religious under guise they dont teach science or history correctly.

your example of the situation in texas if you cared to research it they wanted to teach creationism as an alternative, but not to the removal of evolution. but hey why let FACTS get in way of your rant.

However that aside.

your continued argument they are not teaching history and science correctly is DISPROVED by the test scores of home school and religious / private schools EXCEED by a great margin those in public schools

now how do you figure they are EXCEEDING the test scores in all areas INCLUDING SCIENCE if they are teaching religious vs scientific facts as you claim?

in short you wont accept the FACTS that they are doing a superior job teaching math, ALL SCIENCES, literature, writing, ect because of your religious bias or more accurately emotionally driven hatred of it.

just be honest as long as its not home school or religious/private school your ok with poor teaching of our children

scrounger

a reply to: strongfp

one point of contention also is unless your area has something different no one gets to vote on the public school curriculum .

the proof of this is the common core that is in almost all public schools today.

Most people hate it, most dont want it, yet... here it is

there is literally hundred other such things (ex gender fluidity teaching , making boys use girl facilities, ect) that the public is told to "take it and be quiet".

thus why home schooling ,private schooling, and pushing for school choice is so popular.

but again why let facts get in way of emotional argument

scrounger

a reply to: Starhooker

I know what you mean

I wasnt home schooled (but my parents made sure all my homework was done and my grades were good) but catholic school.

I remember they sacrificed to send me to catholic high school and also at the time didnt like it.
especially seeing how easier the classes they could take, the open campus, ect.

but I remember that the courses just to graduate prepared everyone to go to college.
I really appreciated that when my junior year I decided I wanted to go to college.
I didnt have to take any extra prep courses, the education (outside of math, needed help in that first year) set me up ready for college work and the work ethic was already automatic
my friends had to take prep courses, were not disciplined to study instead of party (alot got into academic trouble) and had a real hard time.

I when I hit a bump and got a little lazy was not so much in the whole and saw what I had to do.

I look back and think if i had gone to public school id be screwed.

Psst as a note to some here criticizing being taught about God and creation..... didnt seem to hurt me in any way.


scrounger