Tesla gobbled up (aquired) a super-cap & battery company - possible issue with military IP

This is one of those things where it feels like there is a direct connection from my thoughts into the matrix, b/c about a month ago I was looking into super capacitors, graphene and graphite nanotube based capacitors and batteries with the same tech, and realized that this tech is much more promising than lithium batteries IMO, as there are almost no rare earth materials (or lithium) needed to produce them (the super caps) and they have the potential to have MUCH more energy density than lithium batteries, as well as orders of magnitude more charge/discharge cycles, much lighter, much faster charge/discharge (orders of magnitude) - basically light years ahead of lithium batteries.

The problem with them ATM, is that there seems to be very little production so their relative price is very high. The price for these devices should be able to produced for a very economical price, especially if they scale up to sizes like the giga-factory and such. I'm not sure if the current manufacturing processes are viable at that scale, but I'm sure research into that area would be well worth the investment, MANY times over.

This tech has the capability of being game changing to the military and IMO should be considered state secrets, but I fear this is something that shouldn't be in the hands of Tesla if they are going to export the tech to China - especially production!! This tech would make lasers, rail guns, and a vast number of "future tech/weapons" a reality in short time, if they can get the size/capacity of production ramped up.

I'm wondering if Tesla bought this b/c of the potential military contracts as well as the benefit of use in spacecraft and cars - it's basically a win-win all around for them, and I'm not against them owning a company like this, only if there is an issue with IP staying in the US - or shelving the tech in order to maintain control over the lithium battery industry - which doesn't seem like Tesla's MO, so I think that is not much of an issue.

a reply to: DigginFoTroof

They bought it because they need to stay in the lead of battery tech. They are investing billions in factories to produce batteries for their cars and grid storage. If someone leapfrogs them on tech that investment becomes worthless.

There is nothing more to it than that.

Fear on China is not the issue. The fear on America refusing to release technology for public use and forced to drain the planet dry is suicide. That is what everyone is afraid of right now. Only the dumb military still thinks they have an edge by hiding tech from everyone. Bring it. Bring it out lets see if Tesla can actually make less flammable batteries and more efficient cars.

I'm not sure I understand what you are saying about "fearing china". I strongly support keeping IP (specifically the manufacturing/production & the entire product in some cases) within our country that has a military advantage. Super caps without a doubt fall into this category of keeping the manufacturing w/n the country IMO. I don't think selling the final product is much of an issue b/c there are other countries that produce these, but there is a different method of production by each manufacturer IIRC, and the manufacturing is the most important part of this product ATM.

I don't think this tech can be shelved. It is too well understood and there are already many products that use them. This isn't a genie that's going to be put back in the bottle, and the most beneficial for all would be a massive push for better manufacturing methods followed up by large scale manufacturing once efficient methods are developed.

For those that don't know, lithium batteries are TERRIBLE for the environment due to the mining of the lithium and the other metals needed to make the tech work (and the mining of those metals - often in unstable 3rd world countries). The recycling of the batteries isn't profitable unless subsidized which is going to result in a terrible effect on the market and environment down the road. At least it isn't cadmium and lead like previous generation batteries, but still, it isn't something we can take with a grain of salt and think "oh we'll deal with this later, I'm GREEN!!!!"

originally posted by: DigginFoTroof
This is one of those things where it feels like there is a direct connection from my thoughts into the matrix, b/c about a month ago I was looking into super capacitors, graphene and graphite nanotube based capacitors and batteries with the same tech, and realized that this tech is much more promising than lithium batteries IMO

Oh # off, that has been in the technical news for years now, stop patting yourself on the back for regurgitating what is already well known.

originally posted by: ziplock9000

originally posted by: DigginFoTroof
This is one of those things where it feels like there is a direct connection from my thoughts into the matrix, b/c about a month ago I was looking into super capacitors, graphene and graphite nanotube based capacitors and batteries with the same tech, and realized that this tech is much more promising than lithium batteries IMO

Oh # off, that has been in the technical news for years now, stop patting yourself on the back for regurgitating what is already well known.

Wow, u angry little guy? Go back under your bridge. I won't even explain what I said/meant b/c you aren't even worth it.

a reply to: DigginFoTroof

Super capacitor's and indeed super conducting component's to allow extremely rapid discharge are indeed of military potential, one variant worked on for a while in the UK was based on the concept of having electrically charged reactive armor plating, a missile hit's it and uses it's shaped charge to blast plasma into the metal in order to penetrate the armor but thin this case the armor has a layer like a capacitor that is kept at an extremely high charge, once the plasma exposes this charge it arc's outward into the plasma like lightning and literally blasts the plasma (shaped charge explosion) back outward away from the next layer of armor so nullifying the shaped charge's affect upon the vehicle though at the cost of one highly charged electrical reactive armor segment.

Another use for extremely high discharge rate capacitor's is when used with superconducting inductor's and of course good old fashioned arc gap's is the potential military use in EMP projector cannon's for use in disrupting or shutting down enemy electrical equipment.

So I should not be too worried about what Tesla get there hand's on as they are in cahoot's with China at the moment or so I have read despite being an american company as if they had anything too dangerous it is likely that AS LONG AS THEY ARE AWAKE the US department of homeland security, the Pentagon, the CIA or even the FBI would put a stop to Tesla gaining ownership of such technology, I mean remember they are sitting on the REAL Nikolai Tesla's design's among other treasures.

originally posted by: LABTECH767
a reply to: DigginFoTroof

Super capacitor's and indeed super conducting component's to allow extremely rapid discharge are indeed of military potential, one variant worked on for a while in the UK was based on the concept of having electrically charged reactive armor plating, a missile hit's it and uses it's shaped charge to blast plasma into the metal in order to penetrate the armor but thin this case the armor has a layer like a capacitor that is kept at an extremely high charge, once the plasma exposes this charge it arc's outward into the plasma like lightning and literally blasts the plasma (shaped charge explosion) back outward away from the next layer of armor so nullifying the shaped charge's affect upon the vehicle though at the cost of one highly charged electrical reactive armor segment.

Another use for extremely high discharge rate capacitor's is when used with superconducting inductor's and of course good old fashioned arc gap's is the potential military use in EMP projector cannon's for use in disrupting or shutting down enemy electrical equipment.

So I should not be too worried about what Tesla get there hand's on as they are in cahoot's with China at the moment or so I have read despite being an american company as if they had anything too dangerous it is likely that AS LONG AS THEY ARE AWAKE the US department of homeland security, the Pentagon, the CIA or even the FBI would put a stop to Tesla gaining ownership of such technology, I mean remember they are sitting on the REAL Nikolai Tesla's design's among other treasures.

The armor you mention made me remember a really strange story I read a few years ago where an actual force field was accedentially generated at a manufactuing plant in North Carolina back in the early to mid 1980's. I'm not sure if the oddity was ever studied but it was verified by many people at the plant as well as the foreman and plant supervisor, IIRC. The place was working with massive spools of plastic/vinyl sheet (think 30ft long & 12-14ft diameter spools of 1-4mil plastic). They were layering some of the plastics into the machine and one of the workers tried to walk towards the spool and it was impossible - there was a repulsive force pushing away from the spool. IIRC, the effect had something to do with the humidity and air handling at the plant that day (unusual conditions). I did a search and actually found this, so the links are below. Have fun finding the differences between my story and the facts! At least I got the just of the story.

The point is that I'm wondering if something like this could be created with the use of super-caps b/c they have the ability of creating basically the same electric potential as this spool and I'm wondering if this kind of field could be used in collision avoidance or even sending projectiles off course, especially if this force could be focused and directed, it has the potential to become a type of a missile/bullet shield - kind of like the opposite of the death star weapon.

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www.disclose.tv...

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a reply to: DigginFoTroof

That is an interesting story, IF we could understand how that field was created and replicate it then it would have far more uses than that, for example a propulsion field of some kind, just pulse the field at an angle against the ground, an alternative mean's to lift object's and even create real world star wars speeders or back to the future hover board's, star wars like personal deflector shield's etc.
IF it could work outside the atmosphere - as it sound's as if the atmosphere itself was an integral part of this affect - then it would be invaluable for protecting space craft from micro meteor's etc.
Some of the greatest invention's were discovered by Accident and if this could be replicated it would certainly be up there with them.

That armor by the way was very REAL 1980's technology, it was only ever a test phase experimental prototype though and as you know Chobham - our ORIGINAL updated version is still the best in the world though the US does make it's own version based on our British invention.

Chobham is NOT sold to as export, even old Chobham was superior to anything the Soviets had and they tried to replicate it as well.

Chobham is a passive armor not a reactive armor and is made of a laminate of multiple layers of ceramic's, metal's and even in some variants polymers (high temperature of course), it may also consist of composite's of Depleted uranium as this grant's superior radiation shielding and resistance to depleted uranium shell's etc however the exact make up of modern Chobham is a secret.

So you can see why they would experiment using an additional layer of reactive armor designed to dissipate the energy of a shaped charge, even though Chobham is pretty much impervious to most man portable shaped charges and of course modern tank's do not just armor around the sides but on top and below, all manner of threat's have to be anticipated and developed for.

I mean how old is the over pressure system standard on most military armored vehicles since at least the 60's or 70's and it has hardly been used thankfully, over pressure in case you don't know is a mean's to keep the interior of the vehicle at a higher pressure than the external atmosphere using filtered or recycled air as well as in some vehicles carrying air tank's, the idea is that if your vehicle was to pass into an area contaminated with nuclear, biological or chemical weapon's that even if your vehicle suffered a rupture (some armor's are also self sealing) then the internal atmospheric pressure would keep contaminant's from entering the crew or passenger compartment and injuring or killing your personnel.

Back to the Capacitative discharge armor though the concept is really simple.

You have two plates of armor between them is a dielectric just as in a capacitor and in this dielectric a very strong electrical charge is stored, a shaped charge hit's the outside of the vehicle - and (you understand shaped charges, most rocket propelled grenades make use of this and have since the second world war. military.wikia.com... ) - and then the explosive ignites, it is shape in such as a way as to create a directed explosion of very high temperature and pressure - a plasma - this plasma then burn's through metal with such force that molten metal from the armor is also pushed inside the vehicle with it and there the plasma expand's explosively inside the vehicle injuring or killing the crew and damaging or even destroying the vehicle in the process SO what happen's when this charge create's a path for a vast reservoir of electricity to escape - well it creates an effect like lightning, this charge dissipates directly into the incoming plasma EXPLOSIVELY just like a lightning blast and the affect is pretty much the same as more traditional forms of reactive armor such as the Soviet union's reactive armor plate's, in the case of traditional reactive armor a SHAPED CHARGE of explosive material is placed into each of the reactive plate section's, incoming RPG's trigger them and the incoming explosion and plasma is deflected by an outgoing explosion and plasma.
Potential advantage of the electrical discharge armor compared to the neanderthal like club of the explosive plates is fairly easy to see.
Cheaper once in production, lighter weight, less obvious as it would be incorporated into flat tiles on the hull that could cover almost the entire vehicle, more efficient and flexible as it could be rapidly adapted with plates of greater discharge capacity in order to compensate for more powerful shaped charge anti tank weapon's etc.

Disadvantage the same as all reactive armor, it is tailored to one threat that of shaped charge ordnance while good old Chobham remain's the best all round armor money can buy - until we do create force field's.