Evolution Is Dead.

The Human species has finished evolving. And I apologize to those who think, we will eventually be like aliens or some advanced (physically) species. It won't happen.

Once a species becomes "intelligent", evolution dies. With our intelligence, we protect, the old, the weak, the disabled. It isn't survival of the fittest, or even natural selection anymore. Physically, this is about as far as we get.

Kind of disappointing.

Wow, that is quite bold of you to say, and how do you know all this? I think your view is absurd, to say that we can quit evolving is to say that we can quit learning. Just because you can't see something happening on a microscale during your small amount of years alive, doesn't mean that no evolution is occurring..

- Attero

Think about it, we have no natural predators anymore. Nothing to force us to evolve, we protect the weak and such. I did not say mentally we are done evolving, just physically.

We are also killing the strength of the Immune system with all the drugs out there, there are people that get a slight cough and think they have the spanish flu or something and just pump drugs into themselves. I guess that isn't killing the immune system, just making virus' evolve. (off topic, sort of, in my head, so I said it)

In a physical sense i think we have stop evolving, like we aint going to grow 10 feet high or shrink.
But i think we can evolve in a kind of physical way, in that our mental abilities increase. Even though i dont believe it some say that some people are born with more potential for intelligence than others.
But some may also count our technology and philosophical achievments as evolution, if a time comes when machines become more intergrated into the human body and is continouisly improves, is that not evolution.

Removal of certain selective pressures, ie: predators, etc doesn't mean 'evolution' is dead. It means that alleles and genes that would've normally been selected against are no longer selected against. These alleles don't disappear. They persist and increase within the population. So, in essence, the removal of selective pressure allows undesirable genes to proliferate within a population. Genes for bad eyesight proliferate when vision correction occurs on a large scale... same goes for other undesirable genes.

We ARE still evolving - we have fewer hairs, our muscles are softer, the sense of smell is disapearing, our fingers are longer and more sensitive. Also every generation is bigger/higher than our parents (so we ARE still growing) and we have bigger brain/head.
Remeber - evolution is not only a result of threat of other predators, but the whole enviroment.


[edit on 26-2-2005 by longbow]

You make a good point mattison0922. I was just throwing something out there anyways.

These alleles don't disappear. They persist and increase within the population. So, in essence, the removal of selective pressure allows undesirable genes to proliferate within a population. Genes for bad eyesight proliferate when vision correction occurs on a large scale... same goes for other undesirable genes.

Wouldn't that not make it adaptation not evolution? And man-made adaptation at that? It seems with invention, the human self degrades.

The enviroment has a big part in evo., but with trying to fix problems, we are actually making them more promanent.
I guess we are still evolving to an extent. The domanant genes will eventually take over compared to the ressesive. So in 500 years, expect us all to be short, and hairless.

[edit on 26-2-2005 by E L E M E N T]

I think we are still evolving due to our intelligence. Why or how you ask? Simple, we started putting all kinds of chemicals, anti-biotics, & steroids in our food supply. Jusy look at a 15yr old boy from North Dakota vs a 15 yr old from Bucharest, Romania or Africa. No contest, the American is stronger, fatter, & taller from eating cattle that has been pumped full of roid's. The human populations living near rivers and coastal area's that eat alot of sea food have abnormally high levels of chemicals in their bodies that resemble estrogens or chemicals that bond with others to form estrogens. This is turning men from the Western civilizations more feminine, with lower sperm counts and possibly turning some homosexual. This has been documented in alligators, toads, salamanders & etc from the everglades of florida to the rivers of the mississippian or the Coast of Nova Scotia. This is because fertilizers and chemicals from agriculture are contaminating the ecosystems in the waters. This is a form of evolution. As men from the Western Civilization become more feminine, Women become more attracted to Immigrants that are more masculin thus altering the exchange of genes from European, to Arab, Asian or African.

[edit on 26-2-2005 by BattleofBatoche]

Evolution is not dead. We have the most dangerous predator among us all the time. Other humans.

Your example of someone using anti-biotics at the first sign of a cold is actually a good example of stupidity still being a part of natural selection.
Who knows, perhaps that type of person is more likely to get anti-biotic resistant strains.

Also, your argument only works for the so called "civilized" parts of the world. In many parts of the world they don't have all the advantages of modern medicine and still have short life expectancies.

Evolution is not dead, it is slow. You might as well say trees don't grow, because you can't see it happening.

BattleofBatoche Holy Crap...I've never even thought of that before. That makes alot of sense. LeftBehind Only in civilized areas? Read the post before yours. He makes good sense.

i dont think you have taken into account our increasing knoledge of genetics it may be true that natural selection does'nt take place anymore but what about us manipulating our own genetics is'nt that a form of evolution just as we survived cause we could adapt

His post makes some good points towards evolution not being dead.

It doesn't change the fact that there are many areas in the world where people live in abject poverty, without modern medicine, without any police protection, and often with militias or insurgents nearby ready to kill or rape at any time.

To live in an area like that would negate all the things you said contribute to evolution being dead.

Insurgents/ murder / rape. Anyone care to explain how this would help evolution? That is a little out of context. How do you evolve to stop a bullet? How do you stop rape? You are killed, your genes gone. That evolutionary line is dead.

Originally posted by Fitzpatrick
... like we aint going to grow 10 feet high or shrink....

I think you are wrong - just look at the average mediaval man - just 170cm high. Today it is well over 180cm.

Originally posted by E L E M E N T
With our intelligence, we protect, the old, the weak, the disabled. It isn't survival of the fittest, or even natural selection anymore. Physically, this is about as far as we get.

With all that going on how can you protect the old, the weak, the disabled. Once you live in those conditions it is about survival of the fittest.

I was refuting your original post, do you still believe it?

Yeah I dont beleive my first post anymore, but that is largly due to battleof.

quote: Originally posted by E L E M E N T
With our intelligence, we protect, the old, the weak, the disabled. It isn't survival of the fittest, or even natural selection anymore. Physically, this is about as far as we get.



With all that going on how can you protect the old, the weak, the disabled. Once you live in those conditions it is about survival of the fittest.

But those are small concentrated events. They are not global.

It happens to a lot more of the world's population than you might like to think about.

But, even if it was local it would show that survival of the fittest still matters, that was the only point I was trying to make.

Personally, I would like to think that it happens in alot more places. The world is over populated. I have compassion for the human race, but I think a thining of the heard isn't a bad idea, as long as I am not one of the ones to be thined.

I would agree that evolution is slowed for humans under modern conditions. To say it has stopped is absurd. There are many enemies to a weak body, the foremost being viruses and disease. The most defective mutations of human very rarely reproduce, so how are these mutations effecting evolution?

Give me an example of how protecting "the old" could possibly influence evolution.

Some people also make an assumption that the same DNA you're born with is the same DNA you pass on. If that were the case, then how come you've got the fingerprints of viruses in your DNA that your body had never come into contact with?

There is more than just evolution in a life system, there is also adaptation which cannot be a result of random mutations, it's impossible. There are deliberate and calculated changes occuring. This is the phenomenon termed 'nature', and its true operation is yet to be sufficiently explained.

Electric you missed it. He doesn't beleive in his first post any more, makes this thread kinda pointless now.